Pine Island

[NickJames]

I know this is palm talk and not pine talk...  

but I was told now that the pines on my future lot are slash pine ‘dade’...

anyone (or @PalmatierMeg)...is that good!?

[PalmatierMeg]

I don't know what this Slash Pine 'Dade' hokum is. When I worked at Little Pine Island, these pines were called "Southern Slash Pines" by my boss and the consulting ecologist. They are differentiated from Northern Slash Pines as follows (get out the Latin dictionary because cutesy nicknames don't translate well)

Latin Binomial for Northern Slash Pine: Pinus elliottii var elliottii

Latin Binomial for Southern Slash Pine: Pinus elliottii var densa

https://www.thoughtco.com/slash-pine-tree-1343377

Southern Slash Pine is native to only SFL and the Keys. The northern variety is far more common.

[NickJames]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I don't know what this Slash Pine 'Dade' hokum is. When I worked at Little Pine Island, these pines were called "Southern Slash Pines" by my boss and the consulting ecologist. They are differentiated from Northern Slash Pines as follows (get out the Latin dictionary because cutesy nicknames don't translate well)

Latin Binomial for Northern Slash Pine: Pinus elliottii var elliottii

Latin Binomial for Southern Slash Pine: Pinus elliottii var densa

https://www.thoughtco.com/slash-pine-tree-1343377

Southern Slash Pine is native to only SFL and the Keys. The northern variety is far more common.

Nice! Dade=Var. Densa apparently. 

I guess Var. densa is slightly more wind resistant. 
 

Also, the pine cone was definitely different than the ones across my pond here in Daytona. 

[Palms Brisbane]

Nice purchase.
Now I am waiting to see 100 + palms planted

 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

 

4 hours ago, NickJames said:

I know this is palm talk and not pine talk...  

but I was told now that the pines on my future lot are slash pine ‘dade’...

anyone (or @PalmatierMeg)...is that good!?

I would like a Pinetalk forum.

[Allen]

1 hour ago, Palms Brisbane said:

Nice purchase.
Now I am waiting to see 100 + palms planted

 

Pine island is going to be renamed I think.

[NickJames]

closed last Friday!

Couldn’t help myself but plant a few small things yesterday I thought might be able to handle not getting a lot of water - LOL.

Also got a few free trees from someone in Cape Coral that I didn’t have a choice but to plant since they were large. Of course I overexerted myself again and probably got re/injured LOL. 

[NickJames]

Was a Facebook live for family so apologies for all the common names!

[NickJames]

[NickJames]

PS - put down a whole lot of peat moss, black cow, florimulch mulch, Kelp meal, and microlife ultimate organic fertilizer!

[NickJames]

Happy to hear it rained quite a bit last 24-48 hours. 
 

Something like almost 3 inches on Pine Island. 

[NickJames]

Be my future neighbor!!

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6417-Monteray-Dr-Bokeelia-FL-33922/103232973_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

 

The lot diagonal to mine is for sale. You can actually see my lot in most of the drone photos. I don’t see any of my recent plantings which is worrying me - LOL. They’re either deceased or stolen. Or, maybe photos just too blurry...

[Palms Brisbane]

15 hours ago, NickJames said:

Be my future neighbor!!

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6417-Monteray-Dr-Bokeelia-FL-33922/103232973_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

 

The lot diagonal to mine is for sale. You can actually see my lot in most of the drone photos. I don’t see any of my recent plantings which is worrying me - LOL. They’re either deceased or stolen. Or, maybe photos just too blurry...

You might need to highlight your block have no idea from photos haha.

Lets hope too blurry or maybe old photos.

[PalmatierMeg]

Somebody sure to buy it. Land around here doesn't stay on the market long. Fair warning: A PI resident recently told me the traffic on/off the island on the few 2-lane roads is horrendous.

[NickJames]

3 hours ago, Palms Brisbane said:

You might need to highlight your block have no idea from photos haha.

Lets hope too blurry or maybe old photos.

I’m worried because the clearing work in the photos is new. Hope they weren’t overzealous in the clearing either. 

[NickJames]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Somebody sure to buy it. Land around here doesn't stay on the market long. Fair warning: A PI resident recently told me the traffic on/off the island on the few 2-lane roads is horrendous.

It was chaos last week because traffic was being flagged through one lane so they could construct the new turn lanes at the new Publix. 

[Chester B]

How much does one need to put down on a lot like that?  It’s one of my Dads favorite places. 

[Palms Brisbane]

I haven’t looked into it, but would be cool if you could get a solar power security camera with a sim card so can remote into it and view property remotely. Not just for security aspect but mainly to remotely check on palm growth and health  

Edited: Or get to know a neighbour and they can take a photo and send it too you.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Palms Brisbane

[NickJames]

@shminbabe checked on my property today. All the palms are flourishing. Looks like 2 pigeon plum trees I planted are dead but everything else looks good despite no supplemental irrigation. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Hopefully rainy season gets underway in the next few weeks. We've been in a severe drought the past few months and the heat is making it worse.

[NickJames]

Made a quick visit to Pine Island this weekend. In my rushing around, I completely forgot to take individual photos!

All of the palms except an A. Maxima seedling looked great! I was kind of surprised. Also, I’m having it regularly Bush hogged but set aside some areas I want the saw palmetto to grow back in. I am SHOCKED at how quickly these mature saw palmetto grow back. It’s quite amazing. The entire lot was cleared of all scrub in March and in 3 months the saw palmetto in my ‘protected’ areas are already knee to thigh high. 

[NickJames]

Everything is alive!

[NickJames]

Finally remembered to test my Pine Island soil…

It is very acidic and very lifeless!

[Looking Glass]

4 hours ago, NickJames said:

Finally remembered to test my Pine Island soil…

It is very acidic and very lifeless!

How did you collect the samples?  I always wonder about doing  this, as I’d bet I can get any opposite result by getting a sample from different spots in the yard, and by digging different depths in any spot here.  

[NickJames]

5 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

How did you collect the samples?  I always wonder about doing  this, as I’d bet I can get any opposite result by getting a sample from different spots in the yard, and by digging different depths in any spot here.  

For this lot, I simply dug dug down about 8-12 inches and took soil (sand - LOL) from a single spot. 

My Pine Island lot is fairly homogenous (slash pine sandy property). 

The general recommendation if you have a variable property is to take multiple samples from 8-12 inches down across the property and mix them together then draw your sample from the mixture. 

[coco305]

all of palmtalk should just buy property on pine island and then we can turn it into a palm oasis. 

I am actually floating the idea of growing palms for investment purposes as well.. 

It's crazy to see the price appreciation from a seed to a fully mature tree. being in the hedge fund business I have never seen returns like these... You can buy seeds for next to nothing and a mature tree sells for thousands.

 

I am looking into a low effort approach.. like sprout the seeds, then plant them and do minimal maintenance, maybe fertilize them a bit..  If even half of them make it to mature trees that's still like a 120% annualized ROI lol.  

 

[redant]

12 hours ago, coco305 said:

all of palmtalk should just buy property on pine island and then we can turn it into a palm oasis. 

I am actually floating the idea of growing palms for investment purposes as well.. 

It's crazy to see the price appreciation from a seed to a fully mature tree. being in the hedge fund business I have never seen returns like these... You can buy seeds for next to nothing and a mature tree sells for thousands.

 

I am looking into a low effort approach.. like sprout the seeds, then plant them and do minimal maintenance, maybe fertilize them a bit..  If even half of them make it to mature trees that's still like a 120% annualized ROI lol.  

 

Sounds to me like you don't have a lot of experience in the palm business. Painfully long to get most palms to where they sell, most common folks just want the basic Adonia or a coconut or 2, both of which sell for peanuts.  Put in time, labor and expenses, your ROI is tiny. I pretty much gave up on selling stuff. Not worth it at all.

[Dypsisdean]

16 hours ago, coco305 said:

all of palmtalk should just buy property on pine island and then we can turn it into a palm oasis. 

I am actually floating the idea of growing palms for investment purposes as well.. 

It's crazy to see the price appreciation from a seed to a fully mature tree. being in the hedge fund business I have never seen returns like these... You can buy seeds for next to nothing and a mature tree sells for thousands.

 

I am looking into a low effort approach.. like sprout the seeds, then plant them and do minimal maintenance, maybe fertilize them a bit..  If even half of them make it to mature trees that's still like a 120% annualized ROI lol.  

 

 

3 hours ago, redant said:

Sounds to me like you don't have a lot of experience in the palm business. Painfully long to get most palms to where they sell, most common folks just want the basic Adonia or a coconut or 2, both of which sell for peanuts.  Put in time, labor and expenses, your ROI is tiny. I pretty much gave up on selling stuff. Not worth it at all.

I bought my first 1000 seedlings 40 years ago with the same mentality - lost half the following year in a 100 year freeze event. And I've known of at least a hundred people through the years who have given it a try. If you work your butt off, you can maybe supplement your income. But you will never have to worry about finding a slip for your yacht.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

congrats! Very nice property!   Love it!   I hope to one day be able to afford a small lot there or somewhere near water in southern FL.    I've been to Pine Island to go camping  I loved it.  Beautiful.     The  only negatives of pine island for me are:  The insufficient tiny little road that goes in and out of it.   Traffic gets terrible at times, and its so easily suceptible to flooding.    The other is, that when its not windy, the black fly midges / noseeums / mosquitos  are INSANE.  Bug spray seems to barely work.     There were some big storms coming early in the morning  and I left the camper  to move items under cover and take items down that might  get blown over/ away.   I was out there for 15 minutes  and while I could feel them biting, I had no idea how bad.  I ended up with 150 + bites all over my arms, legs, and a few up under my shorts / shirt.   I've never experienced biting bugs anything close to that bad.    It was windy for almost the entire time we were there and the bugs were fine / very minimal.   That one morning with no wind was what did it. This was in April too, during dry season.    I live on the water in south St Pete, and there are mangrove islands all over , etc.  When not windy there are some bugs yeah, but NOTHING like what happened to me on pine island.    LOL.   Other than those two things, I love that island.  

[sonoranfans]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:00 PM, NickJames said:

For this lot, I simply dug dug down about 8-12 inches and took soil (sand - LOL) from a single spot. 

My Pine Island lot is fairly homogenous (slash pine sandy property). 

The general recommendation if you have a variable property is to take multiple samples from 8-12 inches down across the property and mix them together then draw your sample from the mixture. 

Sounds like you need water retention and cation exchange to grow palms well.  Sand by itself is a big problem in rainy florida.  You might try putting down calcined clay(example Turface MVP) to retain moisture and provide cation exchange.  Mulch yes, but that alone will just degrade over time, might be hard to keep up.  So you should have a backup soil conditioner.  I've seen that pine island sand it needs something done, a lot of something.  My sandy soil is not nearly so sandy(95%?) and I have trouble keeping up with mulching alone.   Any water loving  palm species will need a major amendment to make it through the dry/warm spring season.

[amh]

On 7/13/2021 at 1:11 PM, NickJames said:

Finally remembered to test my Pine Island soil…

It is very acidic and very lifeless!

Are you allowed to have livestock?

[Fusca]

@NickJames have you had a chance to visit the nursery in St. James City run by @PalmMom007 ?  There's another Palmtalker located at the north end in Bokeelia @SubTropicRay who can likely give you some additional local advice.

[D Palm]

In Florida you can visit your local Agricultural center. UF did mine years ago. I have 2 acres with the back portion being very boggy and the rest sandy. I submitted 2 samples because it was so different. Added a ton of lime and Bahia almost died out completely, zoysia took over.  Haven’t added lime since and now the yard is 80% Bahia grass again.