Attalea germination

[Josue Diaz]

I found Attalea (probably butryacea) in habitat in northern El Salvador. One of the palms was LOADED with ripening seeds. They were growing in boggy conditions on a hillside with water seeping from the rocks, surrounded by Philodendrons, Monstera adansonii, and wild theobroma (cacao!). Despite warnings that the area was known boa constrictor habitat, i treaded carefully and collected a handful of seeds. Despite being on a hillside, my boots sunk into almost knee-deep mud. 

 

Anyway, here's my loot! I was curious what the best way to germinate these is. Would you plant directly into the ground? Would you use a tall pot?  I will be growing these within their native range, probably less than 5 miles from where i found them. 

 

 

[mike in kurtistown]

In 2007, I collected 4 seeds in a garden setting. Planted in a wide, not tall, 3-gal pot. Got nothing. In 2008, collected 5 more from the same garden and planted them in the same pot. After months or a year or so, one germinated. In 2015, I planted it out. It is now about 6 feet tall.

I don't believe in tall pots.  Palms with long roots spread them laterally in pots. They can't do that in tall pots. I have seen huge fatality rates in Copernicias planted in tall pots, but I have raised scores of them in ordinary 2-gal pots with almost no failures.

[Merlyn]

6 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

I found Attalea (probably butryacea) in habitat in northern El Salvador. One of the palms was LOADED with ripening seeds. They were growing in boggy conditions on a hillside with water seeping from the rocks, surrounded by Philodendrons, Monstera adansonii, and wild theobroma (cacao!).

That's interesting that they were growing in boggy conditions.  For some reason I thought that Attalea were generally drier area palms.  Maybe I need to give my two planted Cohune a bit more water! 

In pots I have grown Attalea Cohune, Butyracea, Phalerata and Brejinhoensis acquired as seedlings.  These all did ok in my "normal" mix of generic topsoil, perlite and Turface MVP.  I planted one Phalerata as a 3 solid leafer last fall, and it only had some minor bronzing at 28F and 30F with medium/heavy frost.  The leaves turned back green after a couple of days.  Anyway, my pots have been either 3x3x9 Stuewe pots or the "D" shaped generic nursery quarts.  My bigger potted Cohune is in a generic 3 gallon right now and is doing fine.  I have some bigger Stuewe treepots (4x4x12 and 6x6x16) but I only use them for cycads with a big taproot.  They irritate the hell out of my because they are so unstable.  I need to get some of the round slightly tapered types that don't fall over...

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, mike in kurtistown said:

In 2007, I collected 4 seeds in a garden setting. Planted in a wide, not tall, 3-gal pot. Got nothing. In 2008, collected 5 more from the same garden and planted them in the same pot. After months or a year or so, one germinated. In 2015, I planted it out. It is now about 6 feet tall.

I don't believe in tall pots.  Palms with long roots spread them laterally in pots. They can't do that in tall pots. I have seen huge fatality rates in Copernicias planted in tall pots, but I have raised scores of them in ordinary 2-gal pots with almost no failures.

I'm kind of tempted to plant them in the ground where I want them to grow and putting them on irrigation - not that they would need it, but... couldn't hurt I think. Get's the whole tall pot/wide pot issue out of the way. 

36 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

That's interesting that they were growing in boggy conditions.  For some reason I thought that Attalea were generally drier area palms.  Maybe I need to give my two planted Cohune a bit more water! 

In pots I have grown Attalea Cohune, Butyracea, Phalerata and Brejinhoensis acquired as seedlings.  These all did ok in my "normal" mix of generic topsoil, perlite and Turface MVP.  I planted one Phalerata as a 3 solid leafer last fall, and it only had some minor bronzing at 28F and 30F with medium/heavy frost.  The leaves turned back green after a couple of days.  Anyway, my pots have been either 3x3x9 Stuewe pots or the "D" shaped generic nursery quarts.  My bigger potted Cohune is in a generic 3 gallon right now and is doing fine.  I have some bigger Stuewe treepots (4x4x12 and 6x6x16) but I only use them for cycads with a big taproot.  They irritate the hell out of my because they are so unstable.  I need to get some of the round slightly tapered types that don't fall over...

I agree about the unstable tall pots hahaha. I grow mangoes and avocados in those and they are constantly tipping over

[Josue Diaz]

39 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

That's interesting that they were growing in boggy conditions.  For some reason I thought that Attalea were generally drier area palms.  Maybe I need to give my two planted Cohune a bit more water! 

In pots I have grown Attalea Cohune, Butyracea, Phalerata and Brejinhoensis acquired as seedlings.  These all did ok in my "normal" mix of generic topsoil, perlite and Turface MVP.  I planted one Phalerata as a 3 solid leafer last fall, and it only had some minor bronzing at 28F and 30F with medium/heavy frost.  The leaves turned back green after a couple of days.  Anyway, my pots have been either 3x3x9 Stuewe pots or the "D" shaped generic nursery quarts.  My bigger potted Cohune is in a generic 3 gallon right now and is doing fine.  I have some bigger Stuewe treepots (4x4x12 and 6x6x16) but I only use them for cycads with a big taproot.  They irritate the hell out of my because they are so unstable.  I need to get some of the round slightly tapered types that don't fall over...

But yes! Seasonally dry forest, but maybe 20 feet uphill from a perennial creek, and that entire hillside was just boggy and muddy from water that seeps out of the hillside and into the creek. There were tons of alocasias (colocasias maybe? i don't know the difference).  I was careful to walk on old fronds to avoid sinking my boots into the mud. 

[JubaeaMan138]

I did mine in sphagnum in baggie high high heat took roughly 6 to 7 months to sprout . 10 of 20 sprouted the others ones are still in my hot box waiting to sprout . 

[Frond-friend42]

4 hours ago, mike in kurtistown said:

In 2007, I collected 4 seeds in a garden setting. Planted in a wide, not tall, 3-gal pot. Got nothing. In 2008, collected 5 more from the same garden and planted them in the same pot. After months or a year or so, one germinated. In 2015, I planted it out. It is now about 6 feet tall.

I don't believe in tall pots.  Palms with long roots spread them laterally in pots. They can't do that in tall pots. I have seen huge fatality rates in Copernicias planted in tall pots, but I have raised scores of them in ordinary 2-gal pots with almost no failures.

I believe this is Mike's Attalea. Impressive sight.

[John hovancsek]

Give them a wack with a hammer to get the outer shell off they will germinate faster

[mike in kurtistown]

That's one of three that I grew from seeds given to me by the late Al Bredeson as Attalea gaucuyule. (Henderson considers this as a synonym of cohune in his 2020 revision of Attalea, but the Kew site still lists the two as separate.) I also have phalerata, butyracea, cohune, and maripa in the area that was cut out of the tour by rain. Speaking of rain, coming from the rainiest area of the USA, we have had 2 1/2 times the normal amount for half of the rainy month of March, and twice the normal amount of the first 2 1/2 months of the year.

Following is a picture of my A. butyracea, actually about 12 feet tall, planted out of a 2- or 3-gal pot in June 2015. The orange bucket is 5 gallons.