Need the ID of this Copernicia (With Pictures)

[MarioPalmCUBA]

Hello friends, I am new to this forum, I am delighted with all the information that can be found here. I work in the Botanical Garden of Cienfuegos, I am in front of the palmetum of the garden and at the moment I am carrying out its floristic survey. There are some species that are a bit difficult for me to identify as I am new to this world, I am collecting dichotomous keys to prepare myself. I hope you can help me with some of the plants that I will be sharing during these days.

I share photos of this Copernicia of which I need to know its ID. It is found within the collection of Cuban plants of the garden. As a significant characteristic, you can see the bluish color of its leaves. 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, mariolimacruz1997@gmail.co said:

Hello friends, I am new to this forum, I am delighted with all the information that can be found here. I work in the Botanical Garden of Cienfuegos, I am in front of the palmetum of the garden and at the moment I am carrying out its floristic survey. There are some species that are a bit difficult for me to identify as I am new to this world, I am collecting dichotomous keys to prepare myself. I hope you can help me with some of the plants that I will be sharing during these days.

I share photos of this Copernicia of which I need to know its ID. It is found within the collection of Cuban plants of the garden. As a significant characteristic, you can see the bluish color of its leaves. 

Mariolimacruz1997, Welcome to the forum,  Believe this is Copernicia hospida.

[Jimhardy]

Beautiful palm!

looks like a cross between Trachycarpus Takil and a Bizzy

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

My first guess is C.Hospita but I'm definitely no expert haha 

T J 

[Merlyn]

It looks a lot like the Hospita at Leu Gardens.

 

[Tracy]

20 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

this is Copernicia hospita.

I agree that this is the most likely accurate id of the plant.  Color of leaves ties, smaller in trunk diameter than either baileyana or fallensis and the inflorescence accurately fits the type description.  If the fruit matches black marble size, then it is most certainly Copernicia hospita and an attractive example.

The one thing I was looking to discern was the color of the teeth on the still green petioles.  I am growing a couple of hybrid Copernicia baileyana x hospita (aka C. x "Textilis"), which has the dark black color spines, armor or teeth on the petioles, typical of a C. baileyana.  I'm not certain what color the petiole spines or armor are on C hospita, but perhaps someone in Florida can answer that.  It could be one more attribute to confirm your id.

[MarioPalmCUBA]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

I agree that this is the most likely accurate id of the plant.  Color of leaves ties, smaller in trunk diameter than either baileyana or fallensis and the inflorescence accurately fits the type description.  If the fruit matches black marble size, then it is most certainly Copernicia hospita and an attractive example.

The one thing I was looking to discern was the color of the teeth on the still green petioles.  I am growing a couple of hybrid Copernicia baileyana x hospita (aka C. x "Textilis"), which has the dark black color spines, armor or teeth on the petioles, typical of a C. baileyana.  I'm not certain what color the petiole spines or armor are on C hospita, but perhaps someone in Florida can answer that.  It could be one more attribute to confirm your id.

Thank you very much for your help. I identify it as C. hospita but it is very similar to C. x Textilis, even around this plant there are other Textilis of less age.

[MarioPalmCUBA]

I share photos of another of the Copernicia of which I need identification.

[Missi]

Awww c'mon!! Where are the Copernicia peeps!!

[sonoranfans]

I am going to guess its a hybrid of hospita x ?.  The trunk is not as smooth as hospitas I've seen in person, and it appears a tad too thick.  SInce cuban copernicias hybridize so readily it very well could be a hybrid.  In the following thread, jody ("virtual palm", who sells lots of specimen copernicias) suggested that the green "hospitas" look very different than the blue ones in 2nd post from the bottom of page 1.   Some call the green ones a different name, "yarey".  In mid page 2, Ken Johnson who also sells/plants copernicia specimens -and has lots pf them in his yard- suggests that in cuba there is a lot of natural hybridization.  For me, the first blue palm is definitely too small/thin for a bailey but seems a bit thicker of (not so smooth)trunk and heavier of petiole than hospita.  I looked at these pics and it just kept bothering me about the trunk and the known proclivity of these to hybridize.  Perhaps further morphological measurements would yield more information.  Leaf width vs length, petiole length, actual trunk thickness, etc.   

 

[MarioPalmCUBA]

4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I am going to guess its a hybrid of hospita x ?.  The trunk is not as smooth as hospitas I've seen in person, and it appears a tad too thick.  SInce cuban copernicias hybridize so readily it very well could be a hybrid.  In the following thread, jody ("virtual palm", who sells lots of specimen copernicias) suggested that the green "hospitas" look very different than the blue ones in 2nd post from the bottom of page 1.   Some call the green ones a different name, "yarey".  In mid page 2, Ken Johnson who also sells/plants copernicia specimens -and has lots pf them in his yard- suggests that in cuba there is a lot of natural hybridization.  For me, the first blue palm is definitely too small/thin for a bailey but seems a bit thicker of (not so smooth)trunk and heavier of petiole than hospita.  I looked at these pics and it just kept bothering me about the trunk and the known proclivity of these to hybridize.  Perhaps further morphological measurements would yield more information.  Leaf width vs length, petiole length, actual trunk thickness, etc.   

 

Thank you very much for your intervention, perhaps as I am new in this world I do not know what specific data is needed to identify these types of plants.
 It would be good to find a document or someone to guide me in that regard.

[Merlyn]

In some cases IDs are easy.  In species that hybridize easily, like Copernicia and Phoenix, making a positive ID is much more difficult.  To ID some of them you might have to go to the botanical description.  I'm not sure of a good book source for that.  As a general reference, Palmpedia is a great online resource.  You can search most species pretty quickly, for example here is the C. Hospita page:

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Copernicia_hospita

[Frond-friend42]

On 4/7/2021 at 2:51 PM, MarioPalmCUBA said:

I share photos of another of the Copernicia of which I need identification.

I think this one may be C. gigas.

[Missi]

20 hours ago, MarioPalmCUBA said:

It would be good to find a document or someone to guide me in that regard.

Have you come across this book? I believe it is by a member of IPS.

The Palms of Cuba by Paul Craft

IPS page re: The Palms of Cuba by Paul Craft

"His newest book, The Palms of Cuba, is the only comprehensive guide to the 98 taxa of native palms found in Cuba and based on many years of research and travels to the island nation."