Does any one have experience with phoenix reclinata

[TampaBryan613]

I bought 3 of them that will be installed with a few other palms they state online cold hardy down to 25 degrees. Any one have any in a colder area?  how do they hold up, and how should I protect if it will be colder then the stated hardiness temperature?

[kinzyjr]

@TampaBryan613 Most of the palms sold as Phoenix reclinata are actually hybridized.  They are definitely good down to 25F as sold, and if they freeze back to the ground when we get a 1989 or 1985 freeze, there is a chance they'll come back from the rootball.  Protection once they get large and sucker is next to impossible short of having a huge blanket to drape over top of them, but keep in mind that Tampa's lowest recorded temperature on per NOAA is 19F and the low during the 1989 Christmas Freeze was 24F.  You hopefully will not see anything like that for a long time.

[TampaBryan613]

56 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@TampaBryan613 Most of the palms sold as Phoenix reclinata are actually hybridized.  They are definitely good down to 25F as sold, and if they freeze back to the ground when we get a 1989 or 1985 freeze, there is a chance they'll come back from the rootball.  Protection once they get large and sucker is next to impossible short of having a huge blanket to drape over top of them, but keep in mind that Tampa's lowest recorded temperature on per NOAA is 19F and the low during the 1989 Christmas Freeze was 24F.  You hopefully will not see anything like that for a long time.

We live in Weeki Wachee so we are colder then Tampa. Most of our palms died last year because we got real cold I believe 28F was the coldest it never stays freezing for an entire day but we get snaps real low,  my robellini's barely made it they are all pushing out but lost all there fronds our foxtails were completely dead and we had some nice Areca Palms which the thick trunks died just baby sprouts poping from the root ball, so we are cautiously trying to find more cold hardy palms that are still nice looking got 3 reclinata's a double mule a decent sized Sylvester and 3 small Sylvesters but I don't want to see the death again like this year! Who would have thought hard to create tropical in central Florida 10 minutes from the Gulf!

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, TampaBryan613 said:

We live in Weeki Wachee so we are colder then Tampa. Most of our palms died last year because we got real cold I believe 28F was the coldest it never stays freezing for an entire day but we get snaps real low,  my robellini's barely made it they are all pushing out but lost all there fronds our foxtails were completely dead and we had some nice Areca Palms which the thick trunks died just baby sprouts poping from the root ball, so we are cautiously trying to find more cold hardy palms that are still nice looking got 3 reclinata's a double mule a decent sized Sylvester and 3 small Sylvesters but I don't want to see the death again like this year! Who would have thought hard to create tropical in central Florida 10 minutes from the Gulf!

Sorry, my assumption from your screen name was that you were in the city of Tampa. 

In your area, you're in that "Spring Hill/Brooksville cold hole."  A good benchmark for long-term survival is the January 2010 Freeze.  The three NOAA Stations in your area recorded between 21F and 27F in that freeze.  There were WeatherUnderground readings of 16F in that area as well.  As far as record lows go, the three NOAA stations show record lows between 11F and 14F.  I've attached a spreadsheet ( 202104222245_WeekiBrooksvilleNOAAData.xlsx ) that shows the annual lows for each year at each of the three NOAA stations in your area with an average and minimum calculated at the bottom.

Based on this information, a relatively safe hardiness number to go for is 20F, a safer number is 15F, and a relatively bulletproof number is 10F.  This would give you three hardiness levels.  If you have any canopy trees, putting your more cold tender plants under it will give it a boost on those radiational cooling nights.  I've included a list of palms ( 9a_palms.xlsx) that were rated for zone 9a or less by Trebrown Nursery for you to peruse for palm species that pique your interest.  Please keep in mind that just because it is hardy doesn't mean it will succeed (ex. Jubaea, Juania, Ceroxylon...).

Looking at the species you had trouble with this winter, Phoenix roebellenii is typically good down to about 24F.  Foxtails (Wodyetia bifurcata) seem to do alright at 28F here for a night or two, even during an advective freeze like January 2018.  Areca palms (Dypsis lutescens) usually don't do nearly as well outside of the city limits here as they do inside of the city limits due to too much radiational cooling.  28F shouldn't have killed any of those if it was for a night, so I'm assuming it was the duration of the chill this year that zapped your palms. 

Mules (x Butyagrus nabonnandii) are typically good into the teens, so you shouldn't have many issues with cold damage.  Sylvesters (Phoenix sylvestris) are listed by Trebown as 9b, but it is probably closer to low 9a (low 20s or even upper teens).  The big thing with Phoenix species is Lethal Bronzing.  Phoenix reclinata (as sold are usually hybrids) are usually good to around 25F, depending on what the were hybridized with and duration of temperature.

Some good pinnate palms for the area include Butia (odorata, eriospatha, yatay), Chamaedorea (costaricana, microspadix, radicalis) Phoenix (dactylifera, sylvestris, canariensis) if you can duck lethal bronzing, Arenga (engleri, ryukyuensis).

Some good fan palms: Bismarckia nobilis (some have had luck with this down into the low 20s), Sabal (minor, palmetto, etonia, etc.), Trachycarpus fortunei (you might have luck with this, or not), Trithrinax campestris (if you can find it), Livistona (chinensis, decora), Serenoa repens 'Silver', Copernicia alba, Rhapis (excelsa, humilis).

202104222245_WeekiBrooksvilleNOAAData.xlsx 9a_palms.xlsx

[Collectorpalms]

Mine is coming back from the base after 4*, all the main trunks are dead. It has been in the ground over a decade. It is going to defoliate at 20F, and anything lower than 15-17F you will lose trunks. Florida has quick freezes, so you might have trunk survival at 16F if you warm rapidly to well above freezing the same day.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[TampaBryan613]

6 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Mine is coming back from the base after 4*, all the main trunks are dead. It has been in the ground over a decade. It is going to defoliate at 20F, and anything lower than 15-17F you will lose trunks. Florida has quick freezes, so you might have trunk survival at 16F if you warm rapidly to well above freezing the same day.

I believe that is what happened to the robellini's but they grow fronds so fast it is insane all but one have tons of new frond growth already. I may have been able to save the foxtails but I was to a point where I needed to figure something out as they were our main pool palms and can not have them look terrible all year to just happen again next winter. we get really cold but it is quick but some times the days will stay in the upper 30 to low 40's not enough to freeze the ground but enough to zap the tops of all the palms. The nursery said the palms we choose should be fine and stay green year round in our area but I also know they are in the business of selling trees for profit so some exaggeration can be made.

[TampaBryan613]

7 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Sorry, my assumption from your screen name was that you were in the city of Tampa. 

In your area, you're in that "Spring Hill/Brooksville cold hole."  A good benchmark for long-term survival is the January 2010 Freeze.  The three NOAA Stations in your area recorded between 21F and 27F in that freeze.  There were WeatherUnderground readings of 16F in that area as well.  As far as record lows go, the three NOAA stations show record lows between 11F and 14F.  I've attached a spreadsheet ( 202104222245_WeekiBrooksvilleNOAAData.xlsx ) that shows the annual lows for each year at each of the three NOAA stations in your area with an average and minimum calculated at the bottom.

Based on this information, a relatively safe hardiness number to go for is 20F, a safer number is 15F, and a relatively bulletproof number is 10F.  This would give you three hardiness levels.  If you have any canopy trees, putting your more cold tender plants under it will give it a boost on those radiational cooling nights.  I've included a list of palms ( 9a_palms.xlsx) that were rated for zone 9a or less by Trebrown Nursery for you to peruse for palm species that pique your interest.  Please keep in mind that just because it is hardy doesn't mean it will succeed (ex. Jubaea, Juania, Ceroxylon...).

Looking at the species you had trouble with this winter, Phoenix roebellenii is typically good down to about 24F.  Foxtails (Wodyetia bifurcata) seem to do alright at 28F here for a night or two, even during an advective freeze like January 2018.  Areca palms (Dypsis lutescens) usually don't do nearly as well outside of the city limits here as they do inside of the city limits due to too much radiational cooling.  28F shouldn't have killed any of those if it was for a night, so I'm assuming it was the duration of the chill this year that zapped your palms. 

Mules (x Butyagrus nabonnandii) are typically good into the teens, so you shouldn't have many issues with cold damage.  Sylvesters (Phoenix sylvestris) are listed by Trebown as 9b, but it is probably closer to low 9a (low 20s or even upper teens).  The big thing with Phoenix species is Lethal Bronzing.  Phoenix reclinata (as sold are usually hybrids) are usually good to around 25F, depending on what the were hybridized with and duration of temperature.

Some good pinnate palms for the area include Butia (odorata, eriospatha, yatay), Chamaedorea (costaricana, microspadix, radicalis) Phoenix (dactylifera, sylvestris, canariensis) if you can duck lethal bronzing, Arenga (engleri, ryukyuensis).

Some good fan palms: Bismarckia nobilis (some have had luck with this down into the low 20s), Sabal (minor, palmetto, etonia, etc.), Trachycarpus fortunei (you might have luck with this, or not), Trithrinax campestris (if you can find it), Livistona (chinensis, decora), Serenoa repens 'Silver', Copernicia alba, Rhapis (excelsa, humilis).

202104222245_WeekiBrooksvilleNOAAData.xlsx 15.87 kB · 1 download 9a_palms.xlsx 18.78 kB · 0 downloads

We have tons of canaries and sylvesters in our neighborhood that seem to do fine year after year. I knew the mule would be a safe bet but the nursery has assured me that the reclinatas should be fine. They are the only one I am concerned with but if they are as tuff as the robis and regrow fronds as fast may not be as devastating and sad looking as it was with the foxtails.   We have 2 small mexican fan palms we just bought but I am not really a fan of the way the look more like the weed palms we get here (palmettos)

[TampaBryan613]

our reclinatas look a lot like the European fan palm with queen fronds.. but they have the sharp spikes like the robellini on the base of the fronds..

[kinzyjr]

9 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Mine is coming back from the base after 4*, all the main trunks are dead.

That is very impressive!

[8B palms]

There are several P reclinata growing on the university of Florida campus a d in private gardens around Gainesville. Like others have said as they sucker even if a main trunk dies below approx 18oF the chances are you’ll get more coming up. I just wish there was a local source for a nice 7 gallon here in town.