Sabal mexicana

[swamptreenelly]

I grew some babies from this palm. It looks drought tolerant, low maintenance and long lived.

http://www.fremontica.com/roadsid....exicana

[fastfeat]

Cool tree--saw lots down in San Antonio, where they rival Washingtonia filifera in making a statement. Brought some seed back to FL but didn't plant. Doubt if it would take my 60+ inches of rain...

Thanks for the pic.

[PalmGuyWC]

After the great freeze of 89/90, I was flying into Corpus Cristi TX a lot.  It got down to 13 F in Corpus and God only knows how cold it went down to in interior Texas. Most of the tall Washingtonia robustas that lined the Bay were killed, many over 80 feet tall. The Washingtonia filiferas had the lower fronds browned, and the Sabal Mexicana's (Texana) were hardly touched by the freeze.

This was the freeze of the century and it engulfed the entire USA including Florida and parts of Mexico. Let's hope we don't have another one of those.

Dick

[Tad]

once they get about 10 feet of trunk they are really nice. this is mine in the bacyard. I dont think they would mind alot of water, i know of a huge patch in mexico that stays flooded for a good part of the year, and they seem to thrive.

[Ken Johnson]

Did any of you notice how different Palmo's Sabal looks compaired to Swampies?

I think they may be two different species.

[Tad]

well I know mine is mexicana.

[swamptreenelly]

It might not be a Sabal mexicana. Any ideas?

[fastfeat]

Sorry--

I'm not an expert on Sabal ID.

In Texas (RG Valley anyway), you have S. mexicana.

In Florida, we have S. palmetto.

You mean there are others????

[Ken Johnson]

Swampy,

It looks like a stunted causiarum. I say stunted but it may just be that because it is growing in Cali. it is not as robust as it could be.

Other than that it it is a REAL nice looking palm! Any bloom spikes on it? Can you get some close ups?

I am pretty sure it is NOT mexicana.

[swamptreenelly]

It puts out alot of seed. I will check on it and take close ups. Thanks for your expertise.

Nelson

[PalmGuyWC]

As I recall, S. mexicana has fairly large seeds, or fruit. It's a stouter looking palm than S. palmeto.

Ken, I have a S. causiarum and it's just as robust as any one you would find in Florida.  Of course mine has had ample water and fertilizer. Sabals are almost impossible to indentify from photographs.

Dick

[swamptreenelly]

This one has small seeds

[NBTX11]

(PalmGuyWC @ Aug. 05 2007,08:03)

QUOTE

After the great freeze of 89/90, I was flying into Corpus Cristi TX a lot.  It got down to 13 F in Corpus and God only knows how cold it went down to in interior Texas. Most of the tall Washingtonia robustas that lined the Bay were killed, many over 80 feet tall. The Washingtonia filiferas had the lower fronds browned, and the Sabal Mexicana's (Texana) were hardly touched by the freeze.

This was the freeze of the century and it engulfed the entire USA including Florida and parts of Mexico. Let's hope we don't have another one of those.

Dick

Dick, it got less than 10F in interior TX.  I believe it got down to about 6F range in the San Antonio area.  I have heard the 83 freeze was actually harder on palms because the cold lasted longer

This was a true 100 year freeze, I highly doubt we will see those temps again.

One thing this freeze did was truly prove once and for all what palm trees are hardy in interior TX.

W. Filifera, W. Filibusta, and Sabal Mexicana all survived, many are now 40-50 feet tall and over 50-70 years old (at least).  Phoenix Canariensis also survived (there are phoenix all over the city), as did all the other cold hardy suspects like Butia, Trachycarpus, Sabal Palmetto, even an occasional Dactylifera.

Believe it or not, the freeze did not kill all the the W. Robusta.  There are a decent # of long term tall slender Robustas in the greater San Antonio area.  Some of those may be Filibusta, but some are true Robusta, I think (or they sure do look like them if they are hybrids)  .

Drive through any established neighborhood in SA, and you will usually see some taller Filifera, and Hybrid Robustas, or Robustas.

Since there hasn't been any more severe freezes, I think you are starting to see the 80' Robustas in Corpus and the Valley again from the survivors.

[NBTX11]

(fastfeat @ Aug. 05 2007,12:00)

QUOTE

Sorry--

I'm not an expert on Sabal ID.

In Texas (RG Valley anyway), you have S. mexicana.

In Florida, we have S. palmetto.

You mean there are others????

Supposedly, before native stands were cut down, Sabal Mexicana went all the way (or a good way) up the Texas coast.

Sabal Mexicana seems to be a more stout version than it's brother Sabal Palmetto.  The trunk on Mexicana is about 1.5 times thicker than palmetto (appx).  Although once all the old leaf bases come off, they can be somewhat difficult to tell apart, I believe

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

is sabal mexicana & Texas Sabal The same ? once i saw the

seeds avalaible in Rps and there was a still of texas sabal

and the trunk with old leaf cutting does not appear as the

one seen in Tad's Photo.

What i saw as the all the dried leaf stalk all looked like pins

standing erectly.it has no comparision to what is in the still

posted above !

And seening its beauty i imported a small pack and only one

sprouted but the grouth is very slow.just 3 spears kind of

leaves.and the leaf is dark green colour.

i wish that RPS link was avaliable now to show you the difference..

thanks & Love,

Kris  

[Tad]

sabal mexican/sabal texana same thing kris,

[fastfeat]

The seed of S. mexicana is dark brown to black, slightly flattened, with a grayish bloom. See pic (sorry--whaddya expect for a $50 P.O.S. camera...)for size reference.

I've got about 2 pounds of seed in my fridge from my SA trip last year. Anyone know about it's longevity? I figure they're probably crap by now. Should I pitch or plant 'em?

[Kris]

(palmotrafficante @ Aug. 06 2007,09:50)

QUOTE

sabal mexican/sabal texana same thing kris,

Dear Tad  

thanks for the info,but in that case iam dead shure that still of

yours is not the one you claim it to be.

i have seen stills of a true sabal mexicana and even zac delibreated in that discussion.that topic was 6 months back.

your sabal is bit closer to S.riverside Sp.that dried leaf area &

the crisscross cuttings are not seen in a S.Maxiana 100%

shure on that.

thanks & Love,

Kris  

[Kris]

Dear Fast Feat  

why don't you try those seeds and tell us.it will not cost you much trying to do so.but will certainly help others,if you try

to figure out its viability period.

love,

Kris  

[fastfeat]

Thanks Kris--

I probably will. Only problem is I'm out of space in my bottom-heated case. I'll try to throw some out in a flat and leave outside (pretty warm here, not below 75F at night for awhile yet), though a steady 80F would I'm sure be better.

[NBTX11]

(krisachar @ Aug. 06 2007,11:23)

QUOTE

(palmotrafficante @ Aug. 06 2007,09:50)

QUOTE

sabal mexican/sabal texana same thing kris,

Dear Tad  

thanks for the info,but in that case iam dead shure that still of

yours is not the one you claim it to be.

i have seen stills of a true sabal mexicana and even zac delibreated in that discussion.that topic was 6 months back.

your sabal is bit closer to S.riverside Sp.that dried leaf area &

the crisscross cuttings are not seen in a S.Maxiana 100%

shure on that.

thanks & Love,

Kris  

Tad's Sabal is a Sabal Mexicana.

Trust me, we see them every day in TX.

They are native by the thousands to the RGV where Tad is from, seen every day in person.

[Tad]

(krisachar @ Aug. 06 2007,11:23)

QUOTE

(palmotrafficante @ Aug. 06 2007,09:50)

QUOTE

sabal mexican/sabal texana same thing kris,

Dear Tad  

thanks for the info,but in that case iam dead shure that still of

yours is not the one you claim it to be.

i have seen stills of a true sabal mexicana and even zac delibreated in that discussion.that topic was 6 months back.

your sabal is bit closer to S.riverside Sp.that dried leaf area &

the crisscross cuttings are not seen in a S.Maxiana 100%

shure on that.

thanks & Love,

Kris  

i might be lost when you folks get to jawin about dypsis, but I know a sabal mexicana when I grow one!!

and I have some sabal yapa, and that aint one of them!!

the criss cross leaf cuttings are from where one of my rocket scientests cut the fronds off toooo short!

Zac lives in north carolina, and he has been here a tiome or 2 not an expert on sabal mexicana SHURE ON THAT!!

[Ken Johnson]

Palmo,  I agree that yours is mexicana. Sure of it too.

I am still not sure about swampies picture.

Dick,  Can we see a pic of your causiarum?

[PalmGuyWC]

Ken,

I'm a computer idiot and don't know how to post pictures.  The next time my photo and computer genus comes by, I'll try to get him to take some pics of my S. causiarum.  I just went out and looked at it, and the trunk is so thick I can't reach around it. It's a little crowded by other palms, but I think some good photos could be taken of it. It's a massive palm and in full bloom now, as are all of my Sabals. There is a sweet sent all over my garden and the flowers are covered with honey bees. The fronds are about 6 feet across.

The most spectacular inflorescenses are on my S. Riverside as they hang down and are quite spectacular.  The only palm that beats it are the Brahea armata's which are in full bloom now too. They are really quite beautiful in bloom.

Dick

[Ken Johnson]

Oh Dick,

I want to see all the bloom spikes!

Just shoot some pics, push some buttons on the 'puter and make it happen. You can do it!

When you plug the thing a ma gig from the camera to the drive it will tell you to open says me.

Then look for "properties" and tell the realtor to make them less than 110 bites.

For more info call me. Would love to chat anyway.

[osideterry]

Just confirmation on that 89-90 freeze being worst of century even this far west. Oceanside's all-time low temp is 20F from that freeze (as recorded at the airport, which borders the San Luis Rey River). After this past winter, I can only imagine what that would do. Was it of long duration?

[fastfeat]

Dick, go to  http://www.photobucket.com . It's a free photo-sharing site that is easy to use.

[PalmGuyWC]

Terry,

Yes, the freeze lasted for over a week, started late Dec.'89 and went into 1990. 2 days after the weather moderated, I slid a shovel into the soil in my vegitable garden and there were ice crystals 4" down.

It was so cold my pool froze over and there were ducks walking on it. Later my garden looked like a blow toarch had been taken to it. Amazingly all of the large palms I have now survived the freeze, and the only lasting damage is to some of the trunks of Syagrus and one Phoenix Sp. Many Syagrus were killed, and even Washingtonias in the colder areas of the Bay Area. CIDP's were totally brown, but they all recovered with no permanent damage.

I lost almost my entire Chamaedorea collection, inculding some nice hybrids and all of my "exotic" cycads in containers with overhead protection were fried. I hauled away 3 truck loads of dead container palms, including Rhapis. I probably could have saved the Rhapis, as 3 containers I didn't throw away produced new pups within a few months, but I didn't want to look at ratty plants for several years of recovery.

It was total devistation and I went into a frump for two years and lost interest in gardening.  It took 2 or 3 years for some of the palms to recover and have a nice crown again.  The effect was like loosing a close faimly member, and most of my palm friends in the Bay Area suffered the same feelings. I also lost half of my cactus collection, while others were untouched. I had some that were 12' high and they bit the dust.

We were entering the end of a long drought in Calif. when the freeze hit.  Unfortunately, I see the same trend now as this past winter was much dryer than normal and less cloud cover and cold, clear nights.  The long range forcast for Calif. and the West is less rain.  I wish I had a crystal ball.

Dick

[osideterry]

I was at NOAA trying to find long term forecast, and they are predicting this winter to be average to below average temps, and below average precipitation. I'm just hoping neither of those "belows" equals this past years.

[Kris]

Dear Tad  

if that is the case then i will have to decide to plant some other fan palm in its place ! since i have no doubt about your

expertiese in your field.but the palm in your still did not impress me_S.Mexicana.

So a breha or Washy filifera will be planted in its place.since i have allocated  some pits for these palms already in our house garden.S.Mexicana did not impress me.it looks very ordinary as any sabal Sp.

and is that white pet your's ? what breed is it.any stills for our

pet coloum in palapa.

thanks for the information,

Love,

Kris  

[NBTX11]

(krisachar @ Aug. 07 2007,10:43)

QUOTE

Dear Tad  

if that is the case then i will have to decide to plant some other fan palm in its place ! since i have no doubt about your

expertiese in your field.but the palm in your still did not impress me_S.Mexicana.

So a breha or Washy filifera will be planted in its place.since i have allocated  some pits for these palms already in our house garden.S.Mexicana did not impress me.it looks very ordinary as any sabal Sp.

and is that white pet your's ? what breed is it.any stills for our

pet coloum in palapa.

thanks for the information,

Love,

Kris  

Kris,

Sabal Mexicana looks very impressive when they get tall.  I will have to take some photos of some local suspects that are tall.

[Kris]

Dear Jim  

i know your taste.so i cannot refuse your suggestion either.

iam scanning for saved stills of that s.mexican.and if you all

confirm that,that still is indeed of s.mexican i will not hesistate to give it a try in our cramped up garden space.

thanks a lot for taking all the troubles in explaining it to me.

lots of love,

Kris  

[fastfeat]

Finally found a couple of pics from a San Antonio cemetery. Cemeteries have some of the best tree specimens...

[Kris]

Dear Fast Feat  

thanks for those lovely stills but its little dark out there iam afraid and i cannot make out much of its features..!

And its clear that the undertakers,the night visiters,friends &

ghosts all seem to have really loved to take a break under the

tall magnificent fan palm trees...i think even the other world

will certainly have some trees of washy's & sabals too.

So iam not really worried going there ?  ???

thanks & Love,

Kris