Washingtonia Filibusta

[ZPalms]

I've been thinking of growing a new palm tree from seed and was wondering how well the washingtonia filibusta does in North Carolina zone 8A? and does anyone have any Filibusta seeds because I have looked everywhere!

[Reyes Vargas]

53 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I've been thinking of growing a new palm tree from seed and was wondering how well the washingtonia filibusta does in North Carolina zone 8A? and does anyone have any Filibusta seeds because I have looked everywhere!

I don't know how well they would do in North Carolina but I might have some seeds to send you.  I do have to check because they were eaten by some bug.

Here is my tree I collected the seeds from.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Reyes Vargas

[ZPalms]

19 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

I don't know how well they would do in North Carolina but I might have some seeds to send you.  I do have to check because they were eaten by some big.

Here is my tree I collected the seeds from.

Wow that very beautiful big palm tree, I'd assume they would do fine here as long as I cover it while its young? but I guess i'd be taking a chance since it's never a 50,50 equal hybrid of a robusta and filifera, I am interested in the seeds though if you have anymore! 

[NCFM]

Filibusta hybrids seem to do pretty well in zone 8 NC.  They're becoming more common and I've seen some huge specimens along the SE coast.  However, I still wouldn't call them bulletproof.  Back in 2018 when we had the worst winter in 150 years there were quite a few casualties.  Definitely worth a shot, though, especially if you have a spot with a good microclimate. 

[Reyes Vargas]

16 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Wow that very beautiful big palm tree, I'd assume they would do fine here as long as I cover it while its young? but I guess i'd be taking a chance since it's never a 50,50 equal hybrid of a robusta and filifera, I am interested in the seeds though if you have anymore! 

Shoot me a PM with your address and I will ship you some.

[ZPalms]

6 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Shoot me a PM with your address and I will ship you some.

Just did, Thank you!

[ZPalms]

23 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Filibusta hybrids seem to do pretty well in zone 8 NC.  They're becoming more common and I've seen some huge specimens along the SE coast.  However, I still wouldn't call them bulletproof.  Back in 2018 when we had the worst winter in 150 years there were quite a few casualties.  Definitely worth a shot, though, especially if you have a spot with a good microclimate. 

I've always loved washingtonia robusta but I knew they would die here very quick unless I was lucky, thankfully the hybrid can give me the best of both worlds if it survives. This one is in Fayetteville but I'm unsure if its robusta or filibusta

[NCFM]

2 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I've always loved washingtonia robusta but I knew they would die here very quick unless I was lucky, thankfully the hybrid can give me the best of both worlds if it survives. This one is in Fayetteville but I'm unsure if its robusta or filibusta

That one appears to be filibusta, but I could be wrong.  Unfortunately I don't have any pictures handy but there are a couple massive 30-40 ft specimens in Wrightsville Beach.  They have very thick trunks so they're likely filifera-dominant.  

There were actually some very tall robusta specimens in downtown Wilmington that managed to survive long-term for years until that terrible winter of 2018 finally killed them. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[WSimpson]

I would try and figure out about how hardy the Washy  is and protect it on nights that are below that temperature . 

Here are my  lows for the last 10 winters  in Winston-Salem .

 19F 2012 , 20F 2013 , 5F 2014 , 4F 2015 , 15F 2016 ,  7F 2017 , 8F 2018 , 14F 2019 , 19F 2020 , 16F 2021 

I listed my last ten year lows to illustrate when I protect my Washy filibusta . It needed  protection only during winters with a low  below 16F . I have a feeling it would survive 15F but I don't chance it . So I protected my Washy in 2014 , 2015 , 2016 ,  2017 , 2018 , 2019 , and I didn't protect it 2012 , 2013 , 2020 , 2021 . Your probably in a milder part of the state so you may have only needed to protect it just a few years in 10 or maybe not at all if you have a pretty hardy palm and nothing crazy severe happens , but I protect here about 50% of the winters with my palm and my weather . 

Below was last summer :

 

[UK_Palms]

26 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

I would try and figure out about how hardy the Washy  is and protect it on nights that are below that temperature . 

Here are my  lows for the last 10 winters  in Winston-Salem .

 19F 2012 , 20F 2013 , 5F 2014 , 4F 2015 , 15F 2016 ,  7F 2017 , 8F 2018 , 14F 2019 , 19F 2020 , 16F 2021 

I listed my last ten year lows to illustrate when I protect my Washy filibusta . It needed  protection only during winters with a low  below 16F . I have a feeling it would survive 15F but I don't chance it . So I protected my Washy in 2014 , 2015 , 2016 ,  2017 , 2018 , 2019 , and I didn't protect it 2012 , 2013 , 2020 , 2021 . Your probably in a milder part of the state so you may have only needed to protect it just a few years in 10 or maybe not at all if you have a pretty hardy palm and nothing crazy severe happens , but I protect here about 50% of the winters with my palm and my weather . 

Below was last summer :

 

 

That has one hell of a skinny trunk for a Filibusta, considering I don't see much coloration on the petiole bases at all. They look very green like Filifera. Yet the trunk almost looks pure Robusta. Do you know what temperature the fronds burn at on this specimen? You've done well to keep it alive over the years and it looks fantastic.

[ZPalms]

7 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

I would try and figure out about how hardy the Washy  is and protect it on nights that are below that temperature . 

Here are my  lows for the last 10 winters  in Winston-Salem .

 19F 2012 , 20F 2013 , 5F 2014 , 4F 2015 , 15F 2016 ,  7F 2017 , 8F 2018 , 14F 2019 , 19F 2020 , 16F 2021 

I listed my last ten year lows to illustrate when I protect my Washy filibusta . It needed  protection only during winters with a low  below 16F . I have a feeling it would survive 15F but I don't chance it . So I protected my Washy in 2014 , 2015 , 2016 ,  2017 , 2018 , 2019 , and I didn't protect it 2012 , 2013 , 2020 , 2021 . Your probably in a milder part of the state so you may have only needed to protect it just a few years in 10 or maybe not at all if you have a pretty hardy palm and nothing crazy severe happens , but I protect here about 50% of the winters with my palm and my weather . 

Below was last summer :

 

 

I'll definitely look over all my lows for this area, I will probably end up protecting it regardless in the cold with Christmas lights or something but your tree looks amazing and pretty tall! 

[ZPalms]

11 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

I would try and figure out about how hardy the Washy  is and protect it on nights that are below that temperature . 

Here are my  lows for the last 10 winters  in Winston-Salem .

 19F 2012 , 20F 2013 , 5F 2014 , 4F 2015 , 15F 2016 ,  7F 2017 , 8F 2018 , 14F 2019 , 19F 2020 , 16F 2021 

I listed my last ten year lows to illustrate when I protect my Washy filibusta . It needed  protection only during winters with a low  below 16F . I have a feeling it would survive 15F but I don't chance it . So I protected my Washy in 2014 , 2015 , 2016 ,  2017 , 2018 , 2019 , and I didn't protect it 2012 , 2013 , 2020 , 2021 . Your probably in a milder part of the state so you may have only needed to protect it just a few years in 10 or maybe not at all if you have a pretty hardy palm and nothing crazy severe happens , but I protect here about 50% of the winters with my palm and my weather . 

Below was last summer :

 

 

Does your tree seed and if so do you sell them?

[WSimpson]

23 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

That has one hell of a skinny trunk for a Filibusta, considering I don't see much coloration on the petiole bases at all. They look very green like Filifera. Yet the trunk almost looks pure Robusta. Do you know what temperature the fronds burn at on this specimen? You've done well to keep it alive over the years and it looks fantastic.

The fronds are hardy to about 24F so they would almost always look bad with the exception of a 1 in a 100 winter that stays above 23F here . 

Will

[WSimpson]

16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I'll definitely look over all my lows for this area, I will probably end up protecting it regardless in the cold with Christmas lights or something but your tree looks amazing and pretty tall! 

I have an easy protection method I can tell you when it gets closer to winter if you want to know how I protect it .

Will

[WSimpson]

13 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Does your tree seed and if so do you sell them?

My tree has never seeded . I think it puts out so much energy to replace its crown every year that it doesn't put out the energy for seeding . 

I think you should look for a hardier Filibusta than mine . Try to find one with more Filifera in it than mine . That way your fronds might look decent after many winters .

Will

[UK_Palms]

2 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

The fronds are hardy to about 24F so they would almost always look bad with the exception of a 1 in a 100 winter that stays above 23F here . 

Will

So it behaves like a Robusta pretty much then, which isn't surprising given the look of that trunk. I was honestly expecting you to say that the fronds burn at around 20F though, due to the Filifera blood, since it is a hybrid. But clearly a Robusta dominant hybrid.

How tall is it now? Also, what will you do when it gets too big to protect? Are you going to trunk cut it to like half the size, so it is manageable, then carry on again?

[Reyes Vargas]

5 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

The fronds are hardy to about 24F so they would almost always look bad with the exception of a 1 in a 100 winter that stays above 23F here . 

Will

If your palm frond burn at 24F then your palm is either a pure robusta or a robusta dominate filibusta.  My filibusta just want through the Texas arctic blast with no frond damage at all while my robusta had some frond burn.

[UK_Palms]

6 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

My tree has never seeded . I think it puts out so much energy to replace its crown every year that it doesn't put out the energy for seeding . 

I think you should look for a hardier Filibusta than mine . Try to find one with more Filifera in it than mine . That way your fronds might look decent after many winters .

Will

Yours will probably set seed eventually. There's a big 30+ foot Filibusta just outside of London, near the coast, that flowered for the first time last year...

It seems that in marginal climates they won't flower until they are much bigger. I believe one of big Filibusta's at Ventnor flowered for the first time last year as well. Whereas I am yet to see a smaller Washie flower in a marginal climate. They seem to flower much smaller in SoCal, Mexico, Texas, Mediterranean etc, but places like the UK and NC they're not going to flower until they are pretty big it seems. I hope to be proven wrong though... 

[WSimpson]

8 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Yours will probably set seed eventually. There's a big 30+ foot Filibusta just outside of London, near the coast, that flowered for the first time last year...

It seems that in marginal climates they won't flower until they are much bigger. I believe one of big Filibusta's at Ventnor flowered for the first time last year as well. Whereas I am yet to see a smaller Washie flower in a marginal climate. They seem to flower much smaller in SoCal, Mexico, Texas, Mediterranean etc, but places like the UK and NC they're not going to flower until they are pretty big it seems. I hope to be proven wrong though... 

My climate is one of those climates that a Washy would love, for the most part ,  except for  one or a  few cold nights most winters . 

Your Washy there is pretty large . Nice palm . I guess my Washy does have more Filibusta than I wish it had . I will keep protecting it for many years , and I hope it doesn't get to where it is too hard to protect . I hope it seeds so that would be one more milestone for my pam growing hobby . 

My Washy may be bigger and have a fatter trunk  than you think when I put someone in the picture for scale . The picture below was last summer before I cut off the skirt from the previous year . I don't know if that makes the trunk look fatter or not ?

[ZPalms]

9 hours ago, Reyes Vargas said:

If your palm frond burn at 24F then your palm is either a pure robusta or a robusta dominate filibusta.  My filibusta just want through the Texas arctic blast with no frond damage at all while my robusta had some frond burn.

Is your filibusta closer to filifera?

9 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Yours will probably set seed eventually. There's a big 30+ foot Filibusta just outside of London, near the coast, that flowered for the first time last year...

It seems that in marginal climates they won't flower until they are much bigger. I believe one of big Filibusta's at Ventnor flowered for the first time last year as well. Whereas I am yet to see a smaller Washie flower in a marginal climate. They seem to flower much smaller in SoCal, Mexico, Texas, Mediterranean etc, but places like the UK and NC they're not going to flower until they are pretty big it seems. I hope to be proven wrong though... 

I saw this video a couple days ago of this filibusta in london and it's so pretty but is the one your standing next to closer to robusta?

46 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

My climate is one of those climates that a Washy would love, for the most part ,  except for  one or a  few cold nights most winters . 

Your Washy there is pretty large . Nice palm . I guess my Washy does have more Filibusta than I wish it had . I will keep protecting it for many years , and I hope it doesn't get to where it is too hard to protect . I hope it seeds so that would be one more milestone for my pam growing hobby . 

My Washy may be bigger and have a fatter trunk  than you think when I put someone in the picture for scale . The picture below was last summer before I cut off the skirt from the previous year . I don't know if that makes the trunk look fatter or not ?

Your filibusta looks very healthy and pretty, did you grow this from seed?

[WSimpson]

4 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Is your filibusta closer to filifera?

I saw this video a couple days ago of this filibusta in london and it's so pretty but is the one your standing next to closer to robusta?

Your filibusta looks very healthy and pretty, did you grow this from seed?

I grew it from a three gallon pot . It's been in the ground 9 seasons with this season being number 10 . Below is February 21 , 2011 , it’s first day in the ground . 

[WSimpson]

Sorry , it’s been in the ground 10 seasons and this is season 11 . 

[WSimpson]

I guess it does  look pretty much Robusta . As I said , I wish it had more Filifera in it .  Another problem if it is more Robusta , is that it will want be a sky duster , and I would like it to slow down in height due to how hard it will be to protect . Sky dusters seemingly don’t stop growing in height  so it would be doomed at some point in the future . 

Oh well ? 

Will 

[UK_Palms]

8 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I saw this video a couple days ago of this filibusta in london and it's so pretty but is the one your standing next to closer to robusta?

That other big one in the video from London is supposedly a Filifera, but I think it is a hybrid Filibusta, like you say. It's quite similar to to the other one I posted above, although less wind battered as that one is right near the coast. I think that one I posted above is about an equal 50:50 hybrid mix. I don't see any more Robusta than Filifera in that one. That's not me standing by it either. I just included a photo with a 6 foot tall person to give an idea of the scale. That specimen is in Minster-On-Sea and has about 20 foot of trunk. And it's quite a stocky trunk, although you would expect it to be tapering, being a hybrid. The owner says it has never been protected and has probably never taken anything lower than 17-18F, although the coast there rarely see's colder than 24F most winters.

In my opinion, a good example of a hybrid Filibusta is Dave Brown's one in his back yard just outside of London. He says it is a Robusta, but you can clearly see the trunk tapering as hybrids do. Notice it has a fatter trunk than Will's hybrid as well, although it is probably a bit bigger in general.

 

Will's hybrid Filibusta is more Robusta-dominant than the ones I have uploaded. His trunk is definitely slimmer and the fronds are a more glossy green. His could be 75% Robusta (Robusta x Filibusta) or it's just a very Robusta dominant hybrid. It's certainly behaving like a Robusta if the fronds are burning at 24F. But you can see the petiole bases on his are very green, which is a Filifera trait. So his one does have Filifera blood in it. Here are some more Filibusta hybrids on the south coast of England at Ventnor Botanic Gardens, but notice how much fatter and stockier the trunks are than Will's one. His washie must be very Robusta dominant. It will definitely want to become a 'sky duster' in the coming years.

[UK_Palms]

4 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

I guess it does  look pretty much Robusta . As I said , I wish it had more Filifera in it .  Another problem if it is more Robusta , is that it will want be a sky duster , and I would like it to slow down in height due to how hard it will be to protect . Sky dusters seemingly don’t stop growing in height  so it would be doomed at some point in the future . 

Oh well ? 

Will 

`Like I said, could you not trunk cut it in spring at some point when it is too big to protect? Like cut it back down to two thirds the height maybe, so it can be protected again and grown for a few more years? Assuming it recovers from being cut. I don't see what else you can do besides that? What is the height limit that you're going to stop protecting it?

[ZPalms]

How tolerant are filibustas in hurricanes or storms?

[JLM]

16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

How tolerant are filibustas in hurricanes or storms?

Depends on how much Robusta is in it, they like to topple over in high wind sometimes. The ones on Pensacola Beach FL seemed to do fairly well in hurricane force with storm surge, i would say that about 100 mph is about their limit before they start smacking onto the ground, wouldnt rely on that number though.

[Palmfarmer]

I would rather just read up on the traits of filifera and robusta Then find one that seems to exhibit a bit of both at your home depot, local nursery or other place. 

http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/07/05/how-to-recognize-the-difference-between-washingtonia-filifera-and-robusta/

[buffy]

For the most part, all of the filibustas survived the -5F freeze with one week under freezing here in Longview. 

[NCFM]

2 hours ago, buffy said:

For the most part, all of the filibustas survived the -5F freeze with one week under freezing here in Longview. 

That's impressive

[buffy]

Started pushing new material immediately.

[UK_Palms]

3 hours ago, buffy said:

For the most part, all of the filibustas survived the -5F freeze with one week under freezing here in Longview. 

That’s -20C and 170 hours below freezing that you’re saying the hybrids came back from. I would maybe expect that from one or two Filifera’s, but not hybrids. That’s crazy. Did you have snow and ice with the freeze there? 

[Collectorpalms]

I “only” had 4*F.

I had 2 dozen Washingtonia, most 20 years old. Most were Filibustas. Very few were identical. Some grew fast, others slow. Some wide, some skinny. Some flaired Bases, other columns. 
 

How many are left as of May 13.

6 out of 24. So 75% fatalities.

initially 2 others were alive, now not.

One struggling.

One other has put out an inflorescence but no leaves. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[UK_Palms]

40 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I “only” had 4*F.

I had 2 dozen Washingtonia, most 20 years old. Most were Filibustas. Very few were identical. Some grew fast, others slow. Some wide, some skinny. Some flaired Bases, other columns. 
 

How many are left as of May 13.

6 out of 24. So 75% fatalities.

initially 2 others were alive, now not.

One struggling.

One other has put out an inflorescence but no leaves. 

Holy sh*t, that Sylvestris crown looks horrific. Is that some new growth that I see pushing out though, or is that thing as dead as a dodo now? Your CIDP has pulled through hasn't it, which suggests they are clearly more cold-hardy.

Are there any Robusta dominant hybrids that have survived on your property, or are they all Filifera dominant hybrid washies?

[buffy]

My anecdotal experience is that filibusta effectively does better than either parent. We had 13" of snow and ice.  I've only found one filibusta that didn't survive and it was horribly exposed.  The mother of my filibusta is one of a grouping of ginormous filifera specimen at the Fairmont Princess in Scottsdale. The petioles show some reddish robusta characteristics with the leaf bases and course armament.  It's heavy on filifera though.  Again, green started pushing a week after the event.  

[Collectorpalms]

13 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Holy sh*t, that Sylvestris crown looks horrific. Is that some new growth that I see pushing out though, or is that thing as dead as a dodo now? Your CIDP has pulled through hasn't it, which suggests they are clearly more cold-hardy.

Are there any Robusta dominant hybrids that have survived on your property, or are they all Filifera dominant hybrid washies?

The one that has sent out an inflorescence and no leaves is only one I would consider Robusta Dominant.

I have lost highly Filifera dominant Ones. The killing factor was the snow and ice in the crown, in combination with height and wind. Other areas that were colder did not get the amount of ice and snow.

[Collectorpalms]

The Phoenix Sylvestris is an unknown factor. It hasn’t had a crown collapse despite those heavy dead fronds.

The city is expanding the sidewalk and moving the waterline. I found out about 2 weeks ago, The Big Canary, the Big live southern live oak and the Sylvestris are going to be cut down, so they can plant grass.

[UK_Palms]

18 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

The Phoenix Sylvestris is an unknown factor. It hasn’t had a crown collapse despite those heavy dead fronds.

The city is expanding the sidewalk and moving the waterline. I found out about 2 weeks ago, The Big Canary, the Big live southern live oak and the Sylvestris are going to be cut down, so they can plant grass.

Can you move the CIDP at least, since it has survived? If it has been defoliated, you won't have to worry about the fronds and an armament of spikes getting you, making it easier to move. Maybe wait until it puts out a bit more growth first, then move it? If I remember correctly, your one only has about 1-2 meters of trunk, right? So moving it would be doable. If not, do you plan on planting another one?

Also, have you got a picture of the Filifera as it is now? I understand that was the best looking washie to come out of the freeze, right?

[Collectorpalms]

15 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Can you move the CIDP at least, since it has survived? If it has been defoliated, you won't have to worry about the fronds and an armament of spikes getting you, making it easier to move. Maybe wait until it puts out a bit more growth first, then move it? If I remember correctly, your one only has about 1-2 meters of trunk, right? So moving it would be doable. If not, do you plan on planting another one?

Also, have you got a picture of the Filifera as it is now? I understand that was the best looking washie to come out of the freeze, right?

That Canary has a 4 meter trunk. It would take a crane. We don’t have experienced people to move something like that in this city. It is my Favorite palm tree in my whole yard. I missed my opportunity to buy a new one as the ones this spring sold, and it was before I found out about it being removed. I do have another Canary in my back yard that is safe.

Oh yeah. The Filifera I think you mean is definitely a Filibusta, and is by and far the nicest Washingtonia. And yes, again the city decided to run power lines above it.

I had plans to try and tilt it out of the way, but in a mater of a couple weeks it has put out a ton of leaves that have grown above the lower power line that is a high tension wire. I think it’s impossible to move without cutting the crown and without pulling on the tension wire and causing a disaster. Options are bleak. It pretty enormous. It did have seeds that survived the cold. Right now I am just saving the ones that have sprouted in the mulch.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[ZPalms]

Best way to germinate washingtonia filibusta seeds? baggy method or instant pot? I'm unsure about instant pot method but if anyone has tried it would love to know more information but looks promising.