Coconut Palm in North Carolina Experiment

[Zeni]

@Zpalms

I have removed the sand as soil.. Makes the pot too heavy for me to comfortable move it in and out. Switched it for 50% perlite 50% cocopeat, much lighter. 

[ZPalms]

On 6/14/2022 at 4:11 PM, Zeni said:

@Zpalms

I have removed the sand as soil.. Makes the pot too heavy for me to comfortable move it in and out. Switched it for 50% perlite 50% cocopeat, much lighter. 

I bet that's what makes my pot so heavy but my coconut loves it 

[Zeni]

@ZPalms

My small coconut seems to have stopped growing. All the fronds still look green and healthy and no scales/pests, but I am not seeing the petioles move much and no new spear, while my potted Phoenix Roebelenii made a new fronds and a new spear in the same period. I had the coconut indoors close to a window while the Roebelenii was nearby but outside (so similar growing conditions and arguably slightly worse for the Roebelenii). Anyhow, the juvenile coconut palm still looks like the day I bought it a month ago, but I hear they start to deteriorate in late autumn to early winter indoors in northern parts of the world as they run out of the juice in the coconut which keeps them artificially looking healthy temporarily. We shall see.. Maybe that is why retailers sell them en masse here during the summer knowing this cycle. 

[ZPalms]

4 minutes ago, Zeni said:

@ZPalms

My small coconut seems to have stopped growing. All the fronds still look green and healthy and no scales/pests, but I am not seeing the petioles move much and no new spear, while my potted Phoenix Roebelenii made a new fronds and a new spear in the same period. I had the coconut indoors close to a window while the Roebelenii was nearby but outside (so similar growing conditions and arguably slightly worse for the Roebelenii). Anyhow, the juvenile coconut palm still looks like the day I bought it a month ago, but I hear they start to deteriorate in late autumn to early winter indoors in northern parts of the world as they run out of the juice in the coconut which keeps them artificially looking healthy temporarily. We shall see.. Maybe that is why retailers sell them en masse here during the summer knowing this cycle. 

How much heat and light does it get? Maybe it's transplant shock? They slow down a lot indoors and for me 1 frond can take 2 months to fully finish opening, I'm sure your watering it well but not overwatering? It could be a lack of pot space? Maybe it want's something bigger to spread it's roots out because I could imagine the less pot space could slow it? When you repotted it were the roots disturbed? I'm not really a expert but I suspect it's any number of these 

[Zeni]

4 hours ago, ZPalms said:

How much heat and light does it get? Maybe it's transplant shock? They slow down a lot indoors and for me 1 frond can take 2 months to fully finish opening, I'm sure your watering it well but not overwatering? It could be a lack of pot space? Maybe it want's something bigger to spread it's roots out because I could imagine the less pot space could slow it? When you repotted it were the roots disturbed? I'm not really a expert but I suspect it's any number of these 

Maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but the the spear which was halfway folded up when I bought it opened up more and turned from a light green color to darker green. That's the only change that happened, so something did happen, but not much, lol. No new spear or frond.

It is on a south facing window which has no curtains. I thought of moving it in and out on warm days, but often night time temps fall under 15 C / 59 F which can make it uncomfortable for coconut palms. Weirdly the Phoenix Roebelenii which is also from the tropics (Southeast Asia) seems to be growing fine outdoors (potted) in our mild summers. I can clearly see growth on that one.

I treated the coconut palm gently, except for the washing off of the sand which might slowed it down possible?

Anyhow, a young coconut palm is an interesting palm to experiment with indoors. My outlook is bleak though, not expecting this to make it to next summer of 2023. but I hope it does.

 

[ZPalms]

59 minutes ago, Zeni said:

Maybe I exaggerated a little bit, but the the spear which was halfway folded up when I bought it opened up more and turned from a light green color to darker green. That's the only change that happened, so something did happen, but not much, lol. No new spear or frond.

It is on a south facing window which has no curtains. I thought of moving it in and out on warm days, but often night time temps fall under 15 C / 59 F which can make it uncomfortable for coconut palms. Weirdly the Phoenix Roebelenii which is also from the tropics (Southeast Asia) seems to be growing fine outdoors (potted) in our mild summers. I can clearly see growth on that one.

I treated the coconut palm gently, except for the washing off of the sand which might slowed it down possible?

Anyhow, a young coconut palm is an interesting palm to experiment with indoors. My outlook is bleak though, not expecting this to make it to next summer of 2023. but I hope it does.

 

sand shouldn't be a problem, are the petitoles stretched?

[Zeni]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

sand shouldn't be a problem, are the petitoles stretched?

The petioles which existed before I bought last month are exactly the same length, not much stretching or low light struggle signs visible. It is getting enough light and enough warmth (21-23 C / 70 F (24/7).  Only issues I could think of are either A ) stress from washing off the original coco peat soil and then trying sand then changing it to a peat-perlite mixture. However, I have my doubts this is it since I did it carefully with lukewarm water and its root system was not that complex as juvenile palm. or... B ) Surroundings aren't tropical enough and not humid enough, personally I think it is this.. but we shall see, will be surprised if I get pinnate leaves on this one (so far only only big juvenile fronds).

Edited July 12, 2022 by Zeni

[ZPalms]

1 minute ago, Zeni said:

The petioles which existed before I bought last month are exactly the same length, not much stretching or low light struggle signs visible. It is getting enough light and enough warmth (21-23 C / 70 F (24/7).  Only issues I could think of are either A ) stress from washing off the original coco peat soil and then trying sand then changing it to a peat-perlite mixture. However, I have my doubts this is it since I did it carefully with lukewarm water and its root system was not that complex as juvenile palm. or... B ) Surroundings aren't tropical enough and not humid enough, personally I think it is this.. but we shall see, will be surprised if I get pinnate leaves on this one (so far only only big juvenile fronds).

I'm sure it's probably a bit of shock, I bet if you contiune to take care of it and let it settle in and it should start back up again as long as theirs no visual decline I think it's all good 

[Palmy Pal]

@ZPalms how’s your coconut palm liking all these hot days in NC? Mine are thriving 

[ZPalms]

9 hours ago, Palmy Pal said:

@ZPalms how’s your coconut palm liking all these hot days in NC? Mine are thriving 

the growth is slow and the leaves are getting yellowed from the sun because I'm terrible at acclimation, It's still pushing through and i've been thinking of a repot but I don't think it needs a repot, I don't even know when your suppose to repot a coconut but I can't imagine it already filled this pot up because I've seen much bigger coconuts in much smaller pots.

That being said, I do think it looks pretty good, I'll have to get a picture when I go out 

[Zeni]

@ZPalms

Finally growth is visible. What looks like a new spear is emerging. Perhaps that heatwave in West Europe a few days ago you may have heard of in the media started a growth cycle in this cocopalm.

[ZPalms]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, Zeni said:

@ZPalms

Finally growth is visible. What looks like a new spear is emerging. Perhaps that heatwave in West Europe a few days ago you may have heard of in the media started a growth cycle in this cocopalm.

Congrats!!! That's awesome!!!! I've been lazy with my coconut, well more so just letting it do it's thing without my intervention! Good to see yours is growing, I bet that push of growth will keep it steady hopefully that it thinks maybe it wont have to die after all 

[ZPalms]

I'm gonna fertilize my coconut tomorrow to give it a boost, It probably doesn't need it but I can imagine since it's been a year now its time to throw some in the pot since the growth isn't being as fast as I'd like being that it's out in the heat and rain 

[JohnAndSancho]

18 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I'm gonna fertilize my coconut tomorrow to give it a boost, It probably doesn't need it but I can imagine since it's been a year now its time to throw some in the pot since the growth isn't being as fast as I'd like being that it's out in the heat and rain 

Fertilizer plus heat plus water = explosive growth in all of my palms. I've forgotten what rain is, but I'm watering the bejeezus out of everything, and while I don't have any coconuts, everything on my patio from seedlings to my queen is going bonkers. I've got some sunburn going on a few palms but literally everything is going nuts. Feed your coconut lol. 

[ZPalms]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, Zeni said:

@ZPalms

Finally growth is visible. What looks like a new spear is emerging. Perhaps that heatwave in West Europe a few days ago you may have heard of in the media started a growth cycle in this cocopalm.

I measured my whole coconut tree today but I forgot you wanted the biggest frond measurement so when I go back outside to turn the water off in a little bit I'll measure it but I did measure the whole plant being 3ft 8inches 

[ZPalms]

I think @JohnAndSancho was right and it's time to repot my coconut as the roots have made their way out the bottom of the pot, I'm not ready to repot though and I dread it because I'm the worst soil mixer in the world, I have no idea what I even did for my coconut the first round.

Dollar store soil and perlite and a little bit of sand???? I have no idea but I dont even know what kind of pot to get that's even bigger?!?!?!?!? 

[JohnAndSancho]

10 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I think @JohnAndSancho was right and it's time to repot my coconut as the roots have made their way out the bottom of the pot, I'm not ready to repot though and I dread it because I'm the worst soil mixer in the world, I have no idea what I even did for my coconut the first round.

Dollar store soil and perlite and a little bit of sand???? I have no idea but I dont even know what kind of pot to get that's even bigger?!?!?!?!? 

Probably need to look for a taller pot. I dunno what size it's in now, but I popped my queen in a 7g nursery pot. Was like $8 at the orange big box store. I dunno what you could use to keep the soil/roots from coming out the drainage holes - I have some little plastic screen deals I got from Bonsai Jack. 

 

As for soil, I buy like a 1cu ft bag of garden soil and add LECA and bark and perlite and whatever else I have laying around. I don't know if coconuts have any more special needs. 

[ZPalms]

2 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Probably need to look for a taller pot. I dunno what size it's in now, but I popped my queen in a 7g nursery pot. Was like $8 at the orange big box store. I dunno what you could use to keep the soil/roots from coming out the drainage holes - I have some little plastic screen deals I got from Bonsai Jack. 

 

As for soil, I buy like a 1cu ft bag of garden soil and add LECA and bark and perlite and whatever else I have laying around. I don't know if coconuts have any more special needs. 

I can’t buy all that special funky stuff so I’ll have to stick with perlite and a good soil mix and maybe a little grit of sand or something, I’ll look for a taller pot and I’ll check bonsai jack thanks!! 

I dread repotting 

[JohnAndSancho]

27 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I can’t buy all that special funky stuff so I’ll have to stick with perlite and a good soil mix and maybe a little grit of sand or something, I’ll look for a taller pot and I’ll check bonsai jack thanks!! 

I dread repotting 

Tagged you in another post showing a repotting nightmare lol 

 

Garden soil doesn't clump as much as potting soil. I could probably buy cheaper bark if I bought bigger quantities, but I buy mine at Petco. I mix my soil in a 5 gallon orange box store bucket. I don't remember how much I paid for the LECA, I got it from Amazon and I'm still on the same bag I bought 2 years ago. I usually throw about 1" deep in the bottom of the pot and mix a couple handfuls into the soil as I'm planting, and most of my pots have like a 50/50 soil/bark mix. I dunno why, I just don't like perlite. 

[PalmsandLiszt]

8 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Garden soil doesn't clump as much as potting soil. I could probably buy cheaper bark if I bought bigger quantities, but I buy mine at Petco. I mix my soil in a 5 gallon orange box store bucket. I don't remember how much I paid for the LECA, I got it from Amazon and I'm still on the same bag I bought 2 years ago.

The thing I've found with LECA and perlite and vermiculite is that you can buy a smallish carrier-bag size or get about 20 times more for double the price. It is a rip-off in small quantities. The downside is that you need to have the space to store it. But if you going to use it, buy a great big sack of it and it won't expire.

Garden soil is great if you have great garden soil (e.g. sandy loam). If you have heavy clay, then it won't be great for palms.

I also think the pine bark sold for reptiles is better than that sold for orchids. It's finer and seems to go through better quality control (but similar in price).

[ZPalms]

13 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Tagged you in another post showing a repotting nightmare lol 

 

Garden soil doesn't clump as much as potting soil. I could probably buy cheaper bark if I bought bigger quantities, but I buy mine at Petco. I mix my soil in a 5 gallon orange box store bucket. I don't remember how much I paid for the LECA, I got it from Amazon and I'm still on the same bag I bought 2 years ago. I usually throw about 1" deep in the bottom of the pot and mix a couple handfuls into the soil as I'm planting, and most of my pots have like a 50/50 soil/bark mix. I dunno why, I just don't like perlite. 

I got reptile bark my first time for my cycads and I love that stuff now and I use big bags of outdoor soil instead of potting soil because that stuff doesn’t clump as quick as “potting soil” which I don’t understand why companies put not to use in pots but who cares and perlite can be annoying because it likes to float to the top

4 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

The thing I've found with LECA and perlite and vermiculite is that you can buy a smallish carrier-bag size or get about 20 times more for double the price. It is a rip-off in small quantities. The downside is that you need to have the space to store it. But if you going to use it, buy a great big sack of it and it won't expire.

Garden soil is great if you have great garden soil (e.g. sandy loam). If you have heavy clay, then it won't be great for palms.

I also think the pine bark sold for reptiles is better than that sold for orchids. It's finer and seems to go through better quality control (but similar in price).

My yard is nothing but sand so bags of garden soil do great I think, I have yet to find granular vermiculite and that reptile pine bark is great! I love using it so I would definitely buy that in bulk if I could! 

[Zeni]

@ZPalms

I was just counting the fronds (including incoming spear) and it looks like the spear will be the 8th frond (6 living, 2 dead tiny ones).

Based on videos I checked of juvenile Cocos palms is it usually the 8th frond which will be pinnate? If so, that would be awesome. 

[ZPalms]

47 minutes ago, Zeni said:

@ZPalms

I was just counting the fronds (including incoming spear) and it looks like the spear will be the 8th frond (6 living, 2 dead tiny ones).

Based on videos I checked of juvenile Cocos palms is it usually the 8th frond which will be pinnate? If so, that would be awesome. 

Oh so me and you are on track with the same amount of fronds, my coconut has 2 tiny dead ones as well so let's see if we both get our first palmy leaves this next leaf  

[JLM]

It will probably be pretty soon that you will see a partially pinnate frond. Partially pinnate as in only a small portion of the leaf is split up, but the entire leaf likely wont be split at first. Totally different palm, but my baby mule has several fronds that are pinnate at the bottom of the frond yet still strap leaf at the top holding it all together.

[ZPalms]

2 minutes ago, JLM said:

It will probably be pretty soon that you will see a partially pinnate frond. Partially pinnate as in only a small portion of the leaf is split up, but the entire leaf likely wont be split at first. Totally different palm, but my baby mule has several fronds that are pinnate at the bottom of the frond yet still strap leaf at the top holding it all together.

My coconut has been so slow since it needs a repot and the leaves are getting scortched from the sun because I suck at acclimating but hopefully this emerging leaf is partially pinnate, that would be soooo coool 

[HiwaKika]

Here's mine since its arrival on May 25, 2021. I guess 4ft ballpark is the norm for the first year (on mainland US), though it was in a holding pattern for 7 months all winter and only saw outdoors on partial days over 70ºF. It's been outside full-time since June. The pot is 7g with dirt 5" below the lip. I didn't have enough material to do it right and was too lazy to disturb it afterwards. That's a 4ft orange level and the size coco I originally wanted. It will never go in ground here, so I need to keep it manageable to bring indoors. 

 

 

[ZPalms]

On 8/5/2022 at 4:56 PM, HiwaKika said:

Here's mine since its arrival on May 25, 2021. I guess 4ft ballpark is the norm for the first year (on mainland US), though it was in a holding pattern for 7 months all winter and only saw outdoors on partial days over 70ºF. It's been outside full-time since June. The pot is 7g with dirt 5" below the lip. I didn't have enough material to do it right and was too lazy to disturb it afterwards. That's a 4ft orange level and the size coco I originally wanted. It will never go in ground here, so I need to keep it manageable to bring indoors. 

 

 

Looking pristine, we should be all on track to have some partially pinnate fronds very soon

Speaking of I checked the new leaf today on my coconut and the strapleafs are starting to get little indentations of splitting so It's happening!!!! 

Edited August 11, 2022 by ZPalms

[SeanK]

Have you ever purchased live Basil at your grocery store and seen some leaves turning black? That's b/c the soil is too cool and the plant's metabolism is shutting down. Your Cocos will do the same come autumn. Sure, a few 75°+ days, but soil be chillin. Have tomatoes on the vine in October? They don't seem to ripen any further. Same deal.

Plants care A LOT about soil temps.

[MrTropical]

@ZPalms It's nice to see a fellow North Carolinian with a Coconut Palm! I'm hoping I can successfully overwinter mine indoors up here in the mountains!

[MrTropical]

Here's my Coconut. Got it in early May from a local grocery store and since then it's pushed out 3 new fronds. Doing pretty good for the mountains, I'd say.

[ZPalms]

6 hours ago, MrTropical said:

@ZPalms It's nice to see a fellow North Carolinian with a Coconut Palm! I'm hoping I can successfully overwinter mine indoors up here in the mountains!

You should be able to rock through the winter! My room stayed room temperate all winter with no fans and it made it through swimming with the occasional days I'd put an electric radiator on just to bump the temperature up a bit because I'm cold.

Putting it in the shower every once in a while to clean the fronds and water it deeply is also helpful, but these guys really do not care about being indoors as long as they have light, be it a grow light or a good window and good draining soil! 

[MrTropical]

Just now, ZPalms said:

You should be able to rock through the winter! My room stayed room temperate all winter with no fans and it made it through swimming with the occasional days I'd put an electric radiator on just to bump the temperature up a bit because I'm cold.

Putting it in the shower every once in a while to clean the fronds and water it deeply is also helpful, but these guys really do not care about being indoors as long as they have light, be it a grow light or a good window and good draining soil! 

This gives me hope. Will do! Thanks! 

[HiwaKika]

On 8/11/2022 at 3:27 PM, ZPalms said:

Looking pristine, we should be all on track to have some partially pinnate fronds very soon

Speaking of I checked the new leaf today on my coconut and the strapleafs are starting to get little indentations of splitting so It's happening!!!! 

I actually prefer the fat leaves. Sun lights them up nicely for a whole different look.  

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, HiwaKika said:

I actually prefer the fat leaves. Sun lights them up nicely for a whole different look.  

If it was possible, You’d love Lodoicea, I love the normal pinnate leaves because they just sway in the wind and I love that

My coconut has started the splitting process if you look closely 

[HiwaKika]

11 hours ago, ZPalms said:

If it was possible, You’d love Lodoicea, I love the normal pinnate leaves because they just sway in the wind and I love that

My coconut has started the splitting process if you look closely 

Yeah, Lodoicea are definitely cool though that's fan palm territory

[ZPalms]

Can anyone identify this worm, I think it belongs to a moth or something because these werent here last night and I'm not sure the best way to handle them, they have webs and I would shoot them with something but I dont want them to go nuts and start scattering

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

Can anyone identify this worm, I think it belongs to a moth or something because these werent here last night and I'm not sure the best way to handle them, they have webs and I would shoot them with something but I dont want them to go nuts and start scattering

I figured it out, They are fall armyworm and I used insecticidal soap on them which I think worked, I don't know what else you can use and then I wiped them off with a napkin and put them into soapy water to ensure they were eliminated

gonna take a full picture of the coconut once the rain slows

Edited August 21, 2022 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

Tuesday, August 23rd, 6:51AM, 2021. 

Everything is still going smooth, finally getting partial pinnate leaves now so that’s very exciting!!

The leaves did get scratched this summer due to me not understanding how to acclimate it so I just let it burn so that’s my own fault but oh well, Theirs also some old petioles that I need to prune 

Go figure it looked it’s best when I had it indoors under a grow light only haha, I do need to get a new pot for it but pots are so expensive especially a large deep pot 😭

[ZPalms]

Just realized I put 2021, I meant 2022 🤪

Edited August 23, 2022 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

Good news for my coconut, I've gone to a greenhouse place and was given some good information to build my own greenhouse and be cost effective while building it, I'll be able to build as high as I need as long as I'm also creating support for the structure and be able to keep expanding as I want. I think I'll be building a 12x12x15 greenhouse, which should allow the coconut to grow for a long time before it ever reaches the ceiling and I'll have to get rid of it or figure something out. 

That being said, I still have to make it all happen and I need to figure out how to keep the ground warm and the interior space warm, I was thinking of electrical heating for the air, but for the ground, I may need to run wires or something to keep the roots from freezing, as well as try some natural solutions to generate heat and humidity. I hope I'm successful with my efforts because being able to say that I grew a coconut and harvest some in north carolina is 2 big accomplishments especially for a normal person with big goals 

When I actually start doing stuff and getting materials and figuring out how to put all this together, I'll start posting the process and will see if this will be a success or failure but the information will be useful regardless to others who may want to build a big greenhouse.