Underwatered or overwatered? Please Help

[IanR313]

Hi Everyone,

Just had a newly planted archontophoenix alexandre palm put in March 25th. The palm is green but starting to look terrible. I have fertilized after a month and half and water three times a week. The soil is almost always wet and I have backed off on watering for the time being to see if I see a change in the palms condition. Can someone please take a look at this picture and see if I am overwatering please?? 
 

ty Ian 

 

[Merlyn]

Hi Ian, welcome to PalmTalk!  At about 2 months after planting it's probably getting over "transplant shock."  My notes on water are: "Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color."  Archonto are generally ok with tons of water, so as long as your soil isn't 100% clay with no drainage, it's tough to overwater them.  My guess is underwatering, but I wouldn't say that for sure.  A couple of questions to help diagnose:

• What area of the country are you in?  Suggestions for FL are different than CA.
• How much water are you giving it each time?  A gallon or two, 5 gallons, or 50 gallons? 
• What fertilizer did you use, and how much?

One helpful thing to do is take a sharpie and mark the new spear.  I see it in the first photo, so just mark a horizontal line across the spear and the adjacent fronds.  That way you can see if the spear is growing or not.  If it's growing fast (an inch or so per day) then your palm is probably healthy and just "eating" the old fronds to power new growth.  If it's not moving then there is definitely a problem.

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, IanR313 said:

Hi Everyone,

Just had a newly planted archontophoenix alexandre palm put in March 25th. The palm is green but starting to look terrible. I have fertilized after a month and half and water three times a week. The soil is almost always wet and I have backed off on watering for the time being to see if I see a change in the palms condition. Can someone please take a look at this picture and see if I am overwatering please?? 
 

ty Ian 

 

I second everything @Merlyn says and ask: where are you? Any label for the palm? Looks like it might be a type that likes water, but an ID will help.

 

And, welcome to Palm Talk!

[sonoranfans]

Looks like florida, and possibly an archontophoenix cunninghamiana(?).  Based on our dry, windy recent conditions I'd say water a little more frequently especially if the soil is sandy.  If its florida, make sure you mulch the base around it well and soon the humidity will rise and the rains will come and all wet loving plants will be less stressed.  A water lover like that needs mulch here, every year.

[Valhallalla]

The location appears to be somewhere in south Florida. I see what looks like Royal palms in the background of the first photo and what looks like Adonidia and Ptychosperma elegans in the second photo in addition to all the Foxtails.

Are you sure this is Archontophoenix? The leaflet tips look kinda jagged and appear to be held in a somewhat 'V' configuration on the petiole. The skinny trunk with wide growth rings looks like Ptychosperma elegans to me. An older common name for Pt. elegans was Alexander palm.

[Looking Glass]

That’s about what it looks like around here these days.  Clear sky.  Lawns are drought stressed, everything a little yellow, dry and droopy.   Stuff I’m trying to keep damp by watering once per day, is sucked bone dry by the surrounding sand/soil in less than a day.   

[Jim in Los Altos]

It’s IMPOSSIBLE to overwater Archontophoenix. It’s a semi-aquatic genus. I have several mature ones growing in my pond, all roots submerged 365 days per year and they LOVE it! Even stagnant water won’t harm them. Keep yours watered well especially during dry spells and it will eventually look great. It’s in a tiny bit of shock after being planted. They don’t like their roots disturbed. 

[Looking Glass]

12 minutes ago, Valhallalla said:

Are you sure this is Archontophoenix? The leaflet tips look kinda jagged and appear to be held in a somewhat 'V' configuration on the petiole. The skinny trunk with wide growth rings looks like Ptychosperma elegans to me. An older common name for Pt. elegans was Alexander palm.

I was my 1st thought too.  I’ve got two 12-footers in pots sitting out front in the bushes in full sun.  They look crinkled and beat up right now.  Didn’t hold up well to our 30mph wind recently either.  I don’t think I’ll be putting them in based on how they’ve faired in the trial spots. 

[IanR313]

Thank you everyone for the fast responses!! 
 

I live in SW Florida. We have had a really dry and windy spring/early summer. I’ve watered pretty regularly since the palm was planted in March. 
 

I’ve fertilized with Jobes Palm tree spikes about a month and half after the palm was planted. I looked at the paper work on the palm and it’s a archontophoenix cunninghamiana. Like I said in my earlier post the palm is still really green and producing new shoots monthly but the palm does not look healthy. Could this be shock from the transplant to my house??

I also used a soil meter and the soil is damp and reading wet. The top soil is also damp and does not feel dry.

The palm is approximately 11 feet in height. 
 
TY Ian 

[IanR313]

When I water I place the hose on the palm for a couple hours letting the water soak in. I would guess approximately 20-30 gallons 2-3 days a week.

ty everyone for all the information! 
 

 

 

[Billeb]

1 hour ago, IanR313 said:

When I water I place the hose on the palm for a couple hours letting the water soak in. I would guess approximately 20-30 gallons 2-3 days a week.

ty everyone for all the information! 
 

 

 

Wow! Seems like a lot. I guess I’m under watering my A. Alexandra’s. I’ve got a drip system set up to run for 30min every 3 days. (Qty 3) 3gpm emitters. Curious what the smart people say here about your irrigation schedule 

[Tyrone]

Unless my eyes are really playing tricks on me that is a Ptychosperma elegans. A great palm that won't look quite the same as an Archontophoenix. They tend to have that "ripped look" at the end of the leaflets. Again it just loves water like any Archontophoenix so just flood the thing and it will be happy.

[Valhallalla]

5 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Unless my eyes are really playing tricks on me that is a Ptychosperma elegans. A great palm that won't look quite the same as an Archontophoenix. They tend to have that "ripped look" at the end of the leaflets. Again it just loves water like any Archontophoenix so just flood the thing and it will be happy.

Your eyes are seeing the same thing mine are, that's a Ptychosperma elegans.

As popular as they are in places like California, palms of the genus Archontophoenix are quite uncommon in south Florida. I'm not entirely sure why as they seem to grow OK here. I can't think of the last time I have seen one for sale at a big box or regular retail nursery.

Conversely, Ptychosperma elegans can be found everywhere around here. They are fast growers and tolerate a wide range of conditions. They are rock solid in commercial landscape use and look good planted in multiples. They only hold a half dozen or so leaves in the crown and can sometimes get beat up looking in the wind but grow out of it quickly.

Another thing I like about Ptychosperma elegans is their interesting tendency to occasionally "branch" as older plants. They do this much more often than any other single trunk palm I know of. I've been meaning to start a thread about this subject. ZooMiami has a large group of them planted in which about half of the palms have developed multiple growing points:

As far as the original palm in question in this thread, I honestly think it is doing quite well. It looks a little tattered by the wind maybe. The growth rings will tighten up as it adapts to its full sun location. It was likely grown in more shade than it is in now. By the end of the summer it will be fine.

 

[Merlyn]

12 hours ago, IanR313 said:

I’ve fertilized with Jobes Palm tree spikes about a month and half after the palm was planted.

The general consensus around here is that Jobes are way overpriced for what you get.  In SWFL something like PalmGain is a better choice.  Otherwise I agree with the other comments.  It does look more like a Ptychosperma Elegans "Alexander Palm," this may be a mistake on the nursery's part.  I don't have any myself for comparison, because it routinely gets to the upper 20s here and they defoliate around 29F. 

[Looking Glass]

Ptychosperma elegans is pretty common here.   Here’s the view over my back fence.  Here’s one 20+footer on the right, next to either a stunted Royal or an Archontophoenix?, I’m not sure...   

 

Here’s (L to R) Royal/Archontophoenix?, Ptychosperma elegans, Veitchia merrillii.  

 

Next to that, two more (there are like five back there).  

Here’s what the the leaf edge of mine looks like.  

 

They do well here with little care, and look good, especially as they grow up, but my two look like beat up poo.   

[Valhallalla]

21 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

stunted Royal or an Archontophoenix?, I’m not sure...  

Your (or your neighbor's) "Archontophoenix" is a Royal palm in need of some water and food. Also might be experiencing some Powerline Decline though I can't tell how close it is to those wires. You can tell it's a Royal by the semi-plumose leaflets. Archontophoenix holds leaflets almost flat.

[Looking Glass]

10 minutes ago, Valhallalla said:

Your (or your neighbor's) "Archontophoenix" is a Royal palm in need of some water and food. Also might be experiencing some Powerline Decline though I can't tell how close it is to those wires. You can tell it's a Royal by the semi-plumose leaflets. Archontophoenix holds leaflets almost flat.

Neighbor’s.....  and yes, and yes.  Thanks!...  I always thought it was a sickly royal.  Very skinny for its hight.  It is right in the lines and about to contact the high voltage top wire, where it will intermittently catch on fire, as they do around here. 

I’m dreading the conversation that I have to have with them this year. I’m going to start on a back redo within the year and their palms are all inappropriately selected and planted on the property line and directly under and now in the wires.  They will all be coming down one way or the other.  They are going to lose 6+ full grown palms.  

[sonoranfans]

yep ptychosperma elegans are all over from the big box stores here.  I need bifocals not seeing the tips, I thought that was wind damage from hauling it.  I had my first p. elegans in arizona(as an inside plant) 20 years ago.  I think their adaptability indoor and outdoor has led to them being more common than archies in the big box stores.  They look best in groups of 3-5 since they get tall with slender trunks and small crowns, ideal for multiple plantings.  As a stand alone tree they just dont get wide enough to fill much space as a stand alone specimen.  I also recall that "alexander palm" was a trade name for p. elegans and have never seen any reference of archontophoenix alexandre as the "alexander palm" by a seller.  Here is a link with that reference of p. elegans as the "alexander palm".  https://www.south-florida-plant-guide.com/alexander-palm.html

[Tyrone]

Strange how Ptychosperma elegans is called an Alexander Palm in parts of the US. Here in Oz where they originate we call them Solitaire palms probably because back in the day all other Ptychospermas known were clumpers and this one was single. 

As for availability at least on the west coast of Oz they’re far less common than Archontophoenix. If you see one in a Perth garden you assume they’re palm people most likely. Up in QLD they are everywhere, but that’s their natural range. In the cooler zones of Oz they just don’t exist. I’ve got one in the ground here and it’s doing quite well which is surprising, but I think I’m safe to say that it’s the only one this far south in WA. It’s not a real common palm in Australia except for maybe QLD and northern NSW.