Yellow trunked Chambeyronia - hookeri and houailou

[Tracy]

There are two Chambeyronia forms with yellow trunks, Chambeyronia macrocarpa  var. hookeri (C hookeri) and Chambeyronia houailou (C houailou).  In some other posts there has been discussion about whether a particular plant is one or the other, but I don't recall ever seeing a post to discuss the distinctions.  At one point, I thought from personal experience that all C hookeri had a darker color petiole than the trunk or crownshaft, but I have heard from others that they have specimens that have the same yellow color on the petiole.  I thought that C houailou had a slight pinkish hue to the emerging leaf which turns a more blue green similar to young Kentiopsis oliviformis blue tinting, but again have been told that some have true red emergent leaves.  Maybe you have an opinion or examples to support or refute the above but this is the string to share your knowledge or opinion.

The one thing that I believe all can agree is that C houailou have a far more rigid leaf and leaflets than their relatives of C hookeri or a conventional green C macrocarpa, at least I hope we agree on that.  While the C houailou I am familiar with here aren't putting out seed yet, I understand they are larger than C hookeri or the green C macrocarpa seeds as well.  I'll post a few pics of what I'm growing as C hookeri as well as C houailou to show some of the differences at least growing them here in my microclimate.

C hookeri up first, with classic red emergent leaves, but also somewhat flat or when rounded don't hold the shape and more likely to have some creasing as they aren't super rigid.

[Tracy]

Next showing some of my experience with C houailou and its more rigid leaves and leaflets.  Leaflets are rounded a little on the edges which seems to keep them more rigid.  Feel free to add if you have photos of either or both to show distinguishing factors whether yours is small or with ringed trunk overhead and seeding.

[James B]

Your Hookeri is awesome. Once they are trunking they are such cool palms.

[akamu]

Must be red leaf day my hookerii is shining out on this June gloom day also.  Anyway my understanding for many years is that hookerii has  burgundy petiols .and houlaiou does not  .Don't know of any confirmed hybrids but anything is possible here is a couple pics of my hookerii. My C houlaiou is still a  baby 

[James B]

I have 2 Hookeri in my garden. Based on the two I have Hookeri seems to be quite variable.

I have one that is about 4-5 feet tall that has dark green petioles and one that only about 2 feet tall or so and has orange petioles. 
 

Hard to say what they will look like when mature at this time.

[DoomsDave]

I've got both Hookeri and H-lou in my garden. Hookeri are taller, faster growing, with a blood red screaming new leaf that even makes cops visiting across the street take notice.

H-lou are a lot slower, and they don't make a red new leaf; instead, theirs is orange or rusty red. Whether they're ultimately shorter than hookeri, I don't know.

Both take full sun, if you water them enough in Guada La Habra.

Have to check on other differences when I get home from the Dark Tower.

[realarch]

Tracy, Adam, your Chambeyronia look fantastic! I’m still lovin my C. Hookeri, the color of the crown shaft and that vibrant red new leaf.

Tim

[Tracy]

17 hours ago, akamu said:

Anyway my understanding for many years is that hookerii has  burgundy petiols .and houlaiou does not  .Don't know of any confirmed hybrids but anything is possible here is a couple pics of my hookerii. My C houlaiou is still a  baby 

 

I guess I always assumed that C hookeri had the burgandy petiols, but don't recall ever reading that anywhere in a description.  I know that ellidro mentioned that he has C hookeri which don't have the burgandy petioles, so perhaps that isn't a way to distinguish between the hookeri and houailou.  As soon as I wrote that I considered the reverse might still be true, while lack of color on the petiole might not be an indicator one way or the other, presence of the burgandy/rubarb color on the petiole would most certainly confirm an id of C hookeri.  I'm hoping ellidro can post a couple of photos to show his hookeri and houailou; I know he has shared some photos of other spectacular palms in his garden over the years.

 

And Dave.... get on it!

4 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Have to check on other differences when I get home from the Dark Tower.

[akamu]

Well the sun is out today so I thought I would repost some better pictures of my hookerii these were both planted at the same time. From  the same mother palm. So the burgundy petiols might be parent specific. The taller one  with red frond is in clay so it has more constantly wet feet which I think attributes to the faster growth..These definitely like some water. I just wish I had planted a C. Houlaiou at the same time when I had an opportunity to do so. Dennis Willoughby has an older C.houlaiou with about 8+ft of trunk and his has the lime green petiols. 

[realarch]

I love threads like these, makes me go out in the garden and really take a look at what’s being discussed. I have a heck of a lot of palms and am mostly in maintenance mode these days, so I see them, but don’t really see them. 

So, this old man is going photo bomb Tracy’s thread. This is a pair of C. hookeri growing in relatively shallow soil. 

Tim

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, realarch said:

So, this old man is going photo bomb Tracy’s thread.

Tim it can't be a photo bomb when you are doing what is requested.    I'm hoping for more sharing, particularly of the C houailou!  I'm curious if you notice any difference in just the leaf and leaflet between your C hookeri and regular C macrocarpa, as far as rigidity of the leaflets or how the entire leaf is held (e.g. one more relaxed or the same as one another).

 

2 hours ago, akamu said:

So the burgundy petioles might be parent specific.

I'm hoping someone will post some photos of their C hookeri that deviate from the burgandy/brown/rubarb colored petiole.  You have some nice examples of the ones with the color Adam!  It looks like the ones Tim posted share the coloring on the petioles as well.

[DoomsDave]

Hmmm

Went out and took a look right out my front door and noted my h-Lou and hookeri.

Here’s hookeri with the classic dark petioles.

[DoomsDave]

And here’s h-lou with green petioles 

[James B]

2 hours ago, Tracy said:

Tim it can't be a photo bomb when you are doing what is requested.    I'm hoping for more sharing, particularly of the C houailou!  I'm curious if you notice any difference in just the leaf and leaflet between your C hookeri and regular C macrocarpa, as far as rigidity of the leaflets or how the entire leaf is held (e.g. one more relaxed or the same as one another).

 

I'm hoping someone will post some photos of their C hookeri that deviate from the burgandy/brown/rubarb colored petiole.  You have some nice examples of the ones with the color Adam!  It looks like the ones Tim posted share the coloring on the petioles as well.

Here is my  Hookeri with green petioles. My other palm(not pictured) has the orangish brown petioles.

[The Gerg]

I want to join in. 

Well  @Tracy, my Houailou’s are small and in pots still so not much to share on that for you, but here is my hookerii from back in January (nothing more current on my iPad). This one definitely has the “burgundy” petioles. Although I’ve always thought of them more as a chocolatey brown color. I’m still waiting for that first ring of trunk.
 

[Tracy]

8 hours ago, The Gerg said:

Well  @Tracy, my Houailou’s are small and in pots still so not much to share on that for you, but here is my hookerii from back in January (nothing more current on my iPad). This one definitely has the “burgundy” petioles. Although I’ve always thought of them more as a chocolatey brown color.
 

I'm again drawn to the leaflets and their more lax structure than on C houailou.  Rather than holding their rigid shape, you can see how some of the green leaflets are actually dimpled inward which I don't think one would see on C houailou.  Thanks for sharing the photos Greg.  When we look at Dave's & James's hookeri we see the same thing with the leaflets.  Dave's has an even darker petiole than Greg's and James shows the illusive green petiole hookeri, which I think demonstrates that you can't use a green/yellow petiole to eliminate the id of C hookeri.  James's leaflets are clearly not showing the C. houailou stiffness.

 

13 hours ago, James B said:

Here is my  Hookeri with green petioles. My other palm(not pictured) has the orangish brown petioles.

14 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Here’s hookeri with the classic dark petioles.

 

 

[Tracy]

14 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

And here’s h-lou with green petioles 

There is that classic blue green color to the leaves as well as the stiff shape of C houailou.  Nice example of the petiole Dave, but when you get a chance show an entire frond/leaf, I'm betting it will show off those stiff leaflets even better!  Does anyone else see that blue green tint on this similar to a newly opened KO leaf?

[James B]

More genetic variation is a good thing. But dangerous as it just makes me want to have one of each type in my yard lol.

[Billeb]

Here’s my Hookeri. Petioles look yella to me. Not too long in the ground and it’s a little shocked so may not be a true example but thought I’d share. 

[joe_OC]

I was taught that the easy way to tell the difference for C. houailou are:

1.  Keeps bifid fronds much longer than other Chambeyronia.

2.  Color of rachis on fronds is always going to be lighter (yellow) than the leaflets.

Here are pics of mine for illustration (5 different palms) Pretty clear which is which:

 

 

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, joe_OC said:

I was taught that the easy way to tell the difference for C. houailou are:

1.  Keeps bifid fronds much longer than other Chambeyronia.

2.  Color of rachis on fronds is always going to be lighter (yellow) than the leaflets.

Good points Joe.  The 1st works fine if you get your plants relatively young, but isn't as helpful if you start with a 15 gallon plant and have to trust what someone is telling you about how long it retained the bifid fronds.  2 is of limited help in id'ing a C houailou given that some C hookeri share the ligher rachis.

What are your thoughts on leaflet color after they go away from their salmon tinting on C houailou, do you concur there is a certain bluish green tint similar to K oliviformis new leaves (not an exact color match though)?

[joe_OC]

26 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Good points Joe.  The 1st works fine if you get your plants relatively young, but isn't as helpful if you start with a 15 gallon plant and have to trust what someone is telling you about how long it retained the bifid fronds.  2 is of limited help in id'ing a C houailou given that some C hookeri share the ligher rachis.

What are your thoughts on leaflet color after they go away from their salmon tinting on C houailou, do you concur there is a certain bluish green tint similar to K oliviformis new leaves (not an exact color match though)?

I've yet to see a hookeri that's rachis is lighter than the leaflets.  Please show me.   Look at my 5 pics...Are they all houailous?

 

[Dusty CBAD]

Joe_oc, 

1-3 are houailou. 4 is hookeri. 5 is houailou

I’ve read just about every thread about Chambeyronia there is on Palmtalk. It seems like the differences are very hard to articulate through text.

I have seen a couple mature houailou and a bunch of hookeri in person. Once you see them, I personally think it’s not all that difficult to tell them apart. 
 

Hookeri is the palm that got me into rare palms, they’re awesome. However, to me houailou’s take it one step further. They are the perfect palm. Their form is just beautiful. In my opinion the top palm in so cal.

[Dusty CBAD]

Also, in my limited experience I agree on the rachi thing. Houailou is green. Hookeri rachi is darker than the leaflets, I have one that in the right light you might be able to argue it’s green but it’s still significantly darker than the leaflets.

Here it is. It gets a good amount of sun and it’s still adjusting to it, new leafs are doing good. The rachi is lighter than my other hookeris, but so are the leaflets. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dusty CBAD

[joe_OC]

27 minutes ago, Dusty CBAD said:

Joe_oc, 

1-3 are houailou. 4 is hookeri. 5 is houailou

I’ve read just about every thread about Chambeyronia there is on Palmtalk. It seems like the differences are very hard to articulate through text.

I have seen a couple mature houailou and a bunch of hookeri in person. Once you see them, I personally think it’s not all that difficult to tell them apart. 
 

Hookeri is the palm that got me into rare palms, they’re awesome. However, to me houailou’s take it one step further. They are the perfect palm. Their form is just beautiful. In my opinion the top palm in so cal.

100%.  One thing to add.  Not only are the leaflets more stiff, the frond hold higher too.  To me, it creates the best recurved silhouette.

[Tracy]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:23 PM, joe_OC said:

to me, it creates the best recurved silhouette.

Just opening a new leaf on my Chambeyronia houailou.  I love these.  It is in a tight space, so hard to get good photos with adjacent palms.