My attempt to grow ultra tropicals in Southern California

[rprimbs]

I tried growing mangosteens, durians, and coconuts when I lived in Encinitas.  The mangosteens seemed to be the most difficult, but I wasn't able to get the coconut through the winter either.  The durian was interesting.  It was grown in a little one gallon pot.  I moved it to a twenty gallon grow bag, and it sat and didn't do much until the roots took hold.  When I finally planted it in the ground, later in the year, the roots had completely filled the bag.  The coconut grew good roots too, but the mangosteens roots were pretty weak.

About eight years ago I tried growing a mangosteen, and two durians in Escondido.  I bought the mangosteen from Ong Nursery in San Diego, and the durians from Montoso Nursery in Puerto Rico.  I grew them next to my house and only protected them by covering them with an Agribon frost blanket.  Amazingly I got all of them through the first winter!  The next winter I forgot to cover them (I was in Vietnam), and they died...

So now I am trying to grow a durian, and an achacha (Garcinia humilis).  I have an unprotected Garcinia humilis that is about four years old.  But the poor little plant is barely eight inches tall.  The achacha I bought from "Hawaiian Tropical Plant Nursery, LLC" is a good four feet tall.  It is already growing vigorously.  I sunburned the poor durian in full all day inland sun.  I moved it to the shade and it is coming back to life.  The buds are swelling and it is starting to grow new leaves.  I think that the roots are starting to take hold.  I think that it will look a lot better in a week or two.

[Gonzer]

The air is much too dry in Escondido for any success. It makes much more sense to plant something compatible with your climate that will either grow happily or fast enough to provide some canopy for future experiments.

[metalfan]

I have a friend who lives in Culver City, where I used to live in the 1980's, who has grown a different set of tropicals successfully. Things like the Green Jade Vine, Heliconias, Etlingeras and numerous orchids. However, where as here in Florida it takes those plants (the heliconia and ginger) only a year to start blooming, it took his 8 years.

[rprimbs]

15 hours ago, Gonzer said:

The air is much too dry in Escondido for any success. It makes much more sense to plant something compatible with your climate that will either grow happily or fast enough to provide some canopy for future experiments.

I have grown both durians and mangosteens for several years here.  They did adapt to the dryness.  But when they first come from Hawaii they lose leaves.

There is a fruiting Garcinia at the Cal State Fullerton arboretum. It's a "false mangosteen" (I can't remember the full name).  And I have heard rumors of a fruiting mangosteen -- in the ground -- not far from Exotica Nursery in Vista.  One the guys working at Exotica told me about it.  He said it was given winter protection.

Tropicals do need a lot of water though.

[metalfan]

My climate has no shortage of rain or humidity. I could grow ANYTHING if not for the coolness of our winters. You guys are getting the drought...weare FLOODED here. My area of FL is 6"over the average rainfall for the YEAR. And its only the start of Monsoon season here. Not to discount that Hurricane Else may hit here.

[rprimbs]

14 hours ago, metalfan said:

My climate has no shortage of rain or humidity. I could grow ANYTHING if not for the coolness of our winters. You guys are getting the drought...weare FLOODED here. My area of FL is 6"over the average rainfall for the YEAR. And its only the start of Monsoon season here. Not to discount that Hurricane Else may hit here.

I think that solar power, and automatic irrigation, are going to make a big difference in terms of what we are able to grow.  

We don't have to build a greenhouse over the plants.  We can just toss frost blankets over the plants, and use a small covered space heater.  The excess electric use is not as big of a deal now.

I don't think extension cords are a good idea.  I don't think that they are all that safe or even reliable.  It's too easy to get a frayed cord, and a short.  So I will explain the electrical.  I am going to have to break it into separate posts.  Safe electrical wiring is important.  I have tried the direct burial wire before, and I got a short.  So I don't think it's a good option.

[rprimbs]

For the electrical I will start by explaining my plan.

I plan to put an electrical outlet near each tree. I will plug a cheap little thermostat into it, and I will plug a little space heater into that. I will cover the space heater,  the thermostat, and the electrical outlet, with a little tunnel made from metal roofing.  I will cover the tree -- and everything -- with a couple of layers of Agribon frost blankets.

 

Hiring an electrician is expensive. So I will begin a crash course in outdoor electrical wiring.  This is for the United States where we use primarily 110 -120v (Depending on the distance to the outlet the number can fall somewhere between the two.)

 

The 'hot' wire brings the electricity to the device. The electricity is not forced in. The device only draws as much as is necessary to power it. So you can go larger (amps) than the device needs. The 'black' hot wire takes the electricity to the device, and the 'white' neutral wire takes the electricity from the device to the ground. In the panel the hot wire is connected to the breaker, and the neutral, and ground wires, are connected to the grounding bar.

 

Electricity (amps) heats the wire. If it gets too hot the coating will melt -- and you can burn down the house.  Bigger wires can carry more electricity (amps) without getting as hot. Fuses burn through if the wire gets too hot. And breakers respond to the heat and trip if the wire gets too hot. For a 15A circuit you need number 14 wire. For a 20A circuit you need number 12 wire. For a 30A circuit you need number 10 wire.  Some people 'cheat' but I don't think that's a terribly bright thing to do.  The wires are going to age, and become more brittle.  You can really run into trouble in a junction box where the other wires add heat.

For an outdoor circuit you will start by turning off the main breaker on the panel (The one at the top).  If you don't have a main breaker you can unplug the round meter.  But that can be a little dangerous.  Watch some YouTube videos, on the subject, if you plan to do it.

You will snap in a 20A breaker (A 15A breaker may not be adequate for a space heater. ) To the 20A breaker you will connect three number 12 wires. The 'nonmetalic' bundle is called "12-2". The 12 refers to the wire size, and the 2 refers to the number of wires. Only the black 'hot', and the white 'neutral' wires are counted.

This wire will run through the wall to the outdoor outlet. There is 'fire blocking' between the studs in exterior walls so its not easy to fish the wire through the wall. You will probably have to remove some drywall and patch later.

----------------------

I am going to take a break now,  and take some pictures, so I can better illustrate what I am explaining.

 

 

[metalfan]

It rarely freezes here anymore. The past 5 winters, we have had some mid-high 30's and no real freezes except last winter, when we got the tail end of the arctic wave. I never cover anything. But I have a large collection of rare plants, and I feel more comfortable with my greenhouse. Its planted, like a botanical garden, not just a bunch of benches and stuff. I have had it for 20 years, it worked for me

[rprimbs]

19 hours ago, metalfan said:

It rarely freezes here anymore. The past 5 winters, we have had some mid-high 30's and no real freezes except last winter, when we got the tail end of the arctic wave. I never cover anything. But I have a large collection of rare plants, and I feel more comfortable with my greenhouse. Its planted, like a botanical garden, not just a bunch of benches and stuff. I have had it for 20 years, it worked for me

I've considered a greenhouse.  One problem is that tropicals like durians tend to grow big.  And like mangoes, and avocado's, they are "surface feeders".  They like to have room to spread out their roots.  And they like a thick leaf cover or mulch.

So I want to plant directly into the ground.  And I want to try slowing the gophers and squirrels, with rocks rather than metal cages, like Gary Levine does.

Durians, won't grow as fast here but I can throw larger and larger frost blankets over them as they grow   My durian is not doing as badly as it looks in the picture I took.  It is putting out a lot of new leaves.  The full sun was too much for at first.  If I build a simple frame around it I can cover it with a frost blanket, and set up the space heater.  The blanket will give it shade during the summer, and hold in the heat during the winter.

We are like you.  We don't get that cold.  Very little heat is needed for a greenhouse here.  So the electric use will not be that high.

 

[Darold Petty]

Richard,  a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.   All outdoor electical components must be protected by GFCI circuitry,  including indoor receptacles adjacent to the garage door.

  Please be careful !

 

[metalfan]

2 hours ago, rprimbs said:

I've considered a greenhouse.  One problem is that tropicals like durians tend to grow big.  And like mangoes, and avocado's, they are "surface feeders".  They like to have room to spread out their roots.  And they like a thick leaf cover or mulch.

So I want to plant directly into the ground.  And I want to try slowing the gophers and squirrels, with rocks rather than metal cages, like Gary Levine does.

Durians, won't grow as fast here but I can throw larger and larger frost blankets over them as they grow   My durian is not doing as badly as it looks in the picture I took.  It is putting out a lot of new leaves.  The full sun was too much for at first.  If I build a simple frame around it I can cover it with a frost blanket, and set up the space heater.  The blanket will give it shade during the summer, and hold in the heat during the winter.

We are like you.  We don't get that cold.  Very little heat is needed for a greenhouse here.  So the electric use will not be that high.

 

I have the following planted in my greenhouse, in the ground: a mature watermelon palm, 2 Brownea trees, 2 bauhinia trees, a 20 ft tall torch ginger, a Spindle plan, a Bottle palm, a couple Caryota palms, and some large growing heliconias. And a ton of other stuff LOL. Its 1748 sq ft with an almost 20 ft ceiling so I have plenty of room

[rprimbs]

10 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Richard,  a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.   All outdoor electical components must be protected by GFCI circuitry,  including indoor receptacles adjacent to the garage door.

  Please be careful !

 

Yes thank you,  I was going to get to that.  I like to go out the wall directly into an outdoor outlet -- and then down into the ground.  That first outlet has to be a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter).   The special GFCI outlet compares the amps flowing through the 'hot' to the 'neutral'.  If there is a difference it trips.  If you were to get shocked, you would create a "ground fault".  So the GFCI protects against shocks.

 

The back of the GFCI has two screws marked 'line' and two marked 'load'.  The 'line' is the wire that goes to the panel.  If there were no receptacles between that outlet and the panel, electricians would call it the "home run".

The "load" is everything AFTER the GFCI that is going to put a "load" on that circuit.  

You connect the black wire to the gold screw, and the white wire to the silver.

I should add some pictures to show things better.

 

[rprimbs]

9 hours ago, metalfan said:

I have the following planted in my greenhouse, in the ground: a mature watermelon palm, 2 Brownea trees, 2 bauhinia trees, a 20 ft tall torch ginger, a Spindle plan, a Bottle palm, a couple Caryota palms, and some large growing heliconias. And a ton of other stuff LOL. Its 1748 sq ft with an almost 20 ft ceiling so I have plenty of room

Wow, that is a BIG greenhouse!  Do you grow any tropical fruit?  I am planning to put in a greenhouse but I will probably go ten feet at the peak.

[metalfan]

No, I'm not into tropical fruit. I have banana trees out in the yard that we get bananas off of. Mango trees will grow here, we are a bit north for them, but someone has a 20 year old Mango tree in their yard. I can grow stuff like Plumeria in the yard, Monstera, alocasias, all that common tropical stuff, but have never really been interested in fruit trees.  The only exception is my new Jackfruit tree, which I am keeping containerized. We of course do have citrus...kalamansii, citron, lemons, limes, oranges etc. Part of the problem for me is that I live on 5 acres of densely wooded land called Hardwood Hammock. The only cleared areas are right up around the house, and where the greenhouse is. With all the tree canopy we already have, there isn't a whole lot of room to add more to it. Some of our trees are over 100 ft. The trees I have chosen for the greenhouse are ornamental, Fernandoa, Browneopsis, Brownea, Milletia, Macaranga,  and of course Palms

[Dypsisdean]

There used to be a commercial mango grove in Encinitas - near Balour and Encinitas Blvd. on Seeman Dr. There is even a newer street up there named Mango View.

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, Dypsisdean said:

There used to be a commercial mango grove in Encinitas - near Balour and Encinitas Blvd. on Seeman Dr. There is even a newer street up there named Mango View.

Ahhh ... the good old days.  More and more of the agriculture is disappearing around town, that was right up a street behind Bird Rock Tropicals.  Matteson's flowers just tore down their green houses a few months back near me, and we are due to get high density apartments in it's place.  I digress though.  A few of my neighbors and I are growing backyard Mango trees for our own pleasure though.  I haven't been as adventurous as Richard and branching out into the more exotic and challenging trees so it's interesting to hear what he is experimenting with.  I don't want to have anything to do with extra heating though... that is a road I won't travel.

[rprimbs]

My mom lives in Encinitas, on Eolus Ave.  I had no idea there had been so much agriculture there (Other than flowers).

Curiously I live in a warmer microclimate here in Escondido -- but I am up on a hill, and I used to be surrounded by avocado's.

[Jason Nguyen]

Hi I am going to attempt growing durian,  mangosteen,  longan, mango and  cempedak in a aquaponic greenhouse in Los Angeles.  I bought a 1/2 acres on a side of a hill which has a microclimate effect.  I will start the trees in pots until it gets to 9 feet then transplant it between my greenhouse and the hill which gives it microclimate effect,  also will mulch it and the exhaust fan from my greenhouse with an aquaponic system will give the durian with plenty of humidity.  I'm Vietnamese and loves tropical fruit trees and hope this attempt will allow me to succeed growing durian.  I have a soursop and star apple tree. Does anyone in the area have durian cutting I can trade?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Jason Nguyen
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[Alan_Tampa]

I would try something like cashew before I tried something slow growing like mangosteen or durian.

 

If it makes it for a few years then maybe you'd have at shot at the others. Should fruit in 2 to 4 years from seed.

 

Cheaper too