Super cold hardy triple hybrid

[Paradise Found]

does anyone have a super cold hardy mule? Picture?  Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus.  From Moultire Palms.

Thanks!

Edited July 3, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Trustandi]

I do but it is still small though.

[Paradise Found]

If thats a one gallon it looks nice! I think the cross goes like this... (bxj)xb) xS.  I like that is has a little Jubaea in it. Gives me something to dream about this holiday weekend. LOL! 

Thanks for posting the picture.  can you tell me anything else about it? Was shipping expensive?

[Swolte]

I got some in 2018 and I am very pleased. They love the sun and some regular water. Mine has been growing like a rocket (fastest palm I have). It was 39 inches tall in 2018, 51" in 2019, 85" in 2020, and 121" in 2021 (January). Uri hit us in February and I had to cut all fronds off to protect it (see pic, right before I put the saw into it). I now have 3/4 large fronds again.

Although the big one had a heat source during Uri (we went down to 3F), I also had a smaller supermule that was protected only by a frost blanket and some straw. The small one survived but has taken a hit and is still slow to leaf out. I think statements of it being super cold hardy are an exaggeration. Great palm, nonetheless!

Edited July 3, 2021 by Swolte

[Paradise Found]

Swolte, that's what I was thinking a little to good to be totally true.  But still I think it will be an interesting palm to collect, the prices have gone up to $40.00 + tax + shipping. Your looks like a nice palm tree for sure. I hope it makes a full recovery.  Hopefully never gets that cold here because I wouldn't have any feather palms left.  I'm in 8a so will need overhead protection. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Trustandi]

@Paradise Found I got it from a local palm nursery: NW palmscapes and Exotics so I didn't pay for the shipping. I think I paid around $60-70. It was a strap seedling.  Now it is maybe around 1 or 2 gal size. Yup it is the three way cross with just a little jubaea.  I think the real super mule might be the (BxJ) x (BxS). 

@Swoltethat is so beautiful. I want mine to be that big already 

 

 

[Joe NC]

Mine is not fast. Probably half the speed of a regular bxs mule?

[Turtlesteve]

I have two.  They are almost indistinguishable from a regular mule.  I also think the hardiness is overstated and they are doomed here in zone 8A.  But, I will enjoy them while they last.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

11 hours ago, Trustandi said:

@Paradise Found I got it from a local palm nursery: NW palmscapes and Exotics so I didn't pay for the shipping. I think I paid around $60-70. It was a strap seedling.

Seems like you paid for the shipping haha It's really tough paying for these exotic mules cause you literally won't find out what you actually get till there much larger. Also mules imho aren't really that much more cold hardy then your regular ol queen , maybe you get a few degrees of hardiness. If it's 50% jubaea or more then the hardiness really goes up. 

T J 

[Scott W]

I have one as well, can't attest to the extreme cold hardiness as I'm in Jacksonville FL.  First picture is 2020, second picture is 2021.  It started growing sideways a little last year, not sure why.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Scott W Looks like it's putting on some size!!! It looks like it wants more sun 

T J 

[Scott W]

17 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Scott W Looks like it's putting on some size!!! It looks like it wants more sun 

T J 

Yeah others have said the same thing.  Oddly it's planted about 8 feet or so along the same plane from a mule Palm and the mule is growing straight.  It's possible it was damaged somehow as well, which it's not beyond the realm of possibility that I bumped it a time or two with the riding mower.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

26 minutes ago, Scott W said:

which it's not beyond the realm of possibility that I bumped it a time or two with the riding mower.

Yeah im gonna go with that one haha , tough bugger 

T J 

[Paradise Found]

Thanks to all that showed their super hardy mule palms, LOL! 

Jubaea would be nice if that was more prevalent.  LIke Thomas said, (BxJ) x (BxS) would be the best mule for hardiness. Basically this mules are just mostly Butia x Syurgus. 

They all look great to me... thanks for all the pic posting and comments just what I wanted to see and read.  

[Fusca]

Seems to me that a percentage of offspring from a (BxJ) x (BxS) could end up being a regular Butia mutt with no Jubaea influence.  Maybe this happened with @Joe NC's and the reason why it doesn't grow fast?

[Joe NC]

53 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Seems to me that a percentage of offspring from a (BxJ) x (BxS) could end up being a regular Butia mutt with no Jubaea influence.  Maybe this happened with @Joe NC's and the reason why it doesn't grow fast?

I think mine is something like a (JxB) x S.  So still half queen.

It isn't slow like a Jubaea, but creeping compared to the BxS mule I have.  It has started to recently pick up the pace.  It was more squat when smaller, but is now starting to get a little taller like the other mule.  It does get some weird black spotting on the leaves.

[Dartolution]

On 7/4/2021 at 5:40 PM, Joe NC said:

I think mine is something like a (JxB) x S.  So still half queen.

It isn't slow like a Jubaea, but creeping compared to the BxS mule I have.  It has started to recently pick up the pace.  It was more squat when smaller, but is now starting to get a little taller like the other mule.  It does get some weird black spotting on the leaves.

@Joe NC If you have a (JxB)xS I would love to see images of it. 

I purchased what I believed and was told to be a (BxJ)xS from Michael at MPOM last year or so. It has the exact same characteristics that you mentioned, squat and showing potassium deficiency no mater what it is given almost, as well as hooks on the ends of the fronds and a slightly blue/glaucous sheen. 

Suspecting that it was the potting mix it was originally repotted in, I changed it out this spring to something more pH balanced and this seems to have helped in combination with fertilizing monthly with PalmGain and SulPoMag. 

It seems to be quite inefficient at up taking potassium in particular, but ever since the addition of SulPoMag (Langbeinite) the fronds that are emerging appear in much better condition, and its color overall has improved. Growing like a snail though. 

 

 

[knikfar]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:27 AM, Joe NC said:

Mine is not fast. Probably half the speed of a regular bxs mule?

Where did you purchase yours? And what part of NC are you in? I'm in Raleigh and planted a Butia Capitata earlier this spring. 

[Scott W]

11 hours ago, knikfar said:

Where did you purchase yours? And what part of NC are you in? I'm in Raleigh and planted a Butia Capitata earlier this spring. 

Mine is a Frank Lewis super mule from Moultrie Palms in St Augustine, FL. which is also the palm that @Paradise Found was referring to in the original post. 

[Joe NC]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:04 PM, Dartolution said:

@Joe NC If you have a (JxB)xS I would love to see images of it. 

It is the palm in the photo above.  Photo is from last year, I will snap a new one.

I think it is likely more like a (JxB)xB)x...) x S.  

I know it came from Florida (Jacksonville area? according to seller).

I suspect the female in the cross was one of the many Wilcox JXB F2s or 3s that are around Florida?

11 hours ago, Scott W said:

Where did you purchase yours? And what part of NC are you in?

Penny's palms in SC (the website doesn't seem to be working anymore).

I'm in the Wilmington area.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Joe NC

[Joe NC]

On 7/5/2021 at 11:04 PM, Dartolution said:

@Joe NC If you have a (JxB)xS I would love to see images of it. 

Updated photo.  Don't mind the weeds.

[knikfar]

1 hour ago, Joe NC said:

It is the palm in the photo above.  Photo is from last year, I will snap a new one.

I think it is likely more like a (JxB)xB)x...) x S.  

I know it came from Florida (Jacksonville area? according to seller).

I suspect the female in the cross was one of the many Wilcox JXB F2s or 3s that are around Florida?

Penny's palms in SC (the website doesn't seem to be working anymore).

I'm in the Wilmington area.

I'm in Raleigh. Not sure this would survive our winters. 

[Joe NC]

1 minute ago, knikfar said:

I'm in Raleigh. Not sure this would survive our winters. 

Not sure it will survive here long term either.  I have not needed to protect it for the past couple winters, but when temps were forecast to go below 20 it (and my other mule) got wrapped with a thermo-cube and Christmas lights.  Eventually they outgrow any practical protection measures.

[Scott W]

7 hours ago, Joe NC said:

 

I know it came from Florida (Jacksonville area? according to seller).

I suspect the female in the cross was one of the many Wilcox JXB F2s or 3s that are around Florida?

If it came from the Jacksonville area it's either Frank Lewis or Richard Lindberg who did the cross.  Richard has one, maybe more, of Dr. Wilcox' JXB as well as some of his F3 trees that were recovered when we assisted in cleaning up his property with his son Everett.  I have one of those F3 going in the ground at my house in the coming weeks.

Richard is registered here but is more active in the FB Hybrid Palms group.

[Paradise Found]

Hey you all,  do you think its to late to plant these super hardy mules now or should I wait till spring so they have a full season to settle in? Like to hear from anyone.  going to be in the low 90's this week and fall is suppose to be mild with lots of rain come January.  

1 gallon bareroot. I don't mind waiting till spring no worry this winter then.  Judging by the stems they look like theres a lot of queen in them, so skinnier trunks. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Paradise Found

[WSimpson]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:21 PM, Swolte said:

I got some in 2018 and I am very pleased. They love the sun and some regular water. Mine has been growing like a rocket (fastest palm I have). It was 39 inches tall in 2018, 51" in 2019, 85" in 2020, and 121" in 2021 (January). Uri hit us in February and I had to cut all fronds off to protect it (see pic, right before I put the saw into it). I now have 3/4 large fronds again.

Although the big one had a heat source during Uri (we went down to 3F), I also had a smaller supermule that was protected only by a frost blanket and some straw. The small one survived but has taken a hit and is still slow to leaf out. I think statements of it being super cold hardy are an exaggeration. Great palm, nonetheless!

I thought that was going to be a goner when I saw it during February because I didn't think the protection was enough , but it must be a hardy palm . 

Nice recovery .

Will

[Paradise Found]

Ok folks, I am going to plant one now and repot the other one, so both will have a fighting chance.  If its a bad winter I still have one. And still lots of growing weather this year.  

[Chester B]

9 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

Ok folks, I am going to plant one now and repot the other one, so both will have a fighting chance.  If its a bad winter I still have one. And still lots of growing weather this year.  

Smart. 

[Swolte]

Here's a recent pic of the 'supermule' after the freeze. Keep in mind it was completely defoliated. It has now put out 3/4 large fronds and is happily working on another.

~ S

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, Swolte said:

Here's a recent pic of the 'supermule' after the freeze. Keep in mind it was completely defoliated. It has now put out 3/4 large fronds and is happily working on another.

~ S

Good job keeping that thing alive! 

[Paradise Found]

Ok, I decided to go for it and planted both super mule palms.  In a little bit of shade but this spot is really protected and still get a little to cold in winter.  Sun hasn't hit them yet, thats why they look so shady in the pics.  I feel good about this, will protect when needed. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Dartolution]

3 hours ago, Swolte said:

Here's a recent pic of the 'supermule' after the freeze. Keep in mind it was completely defoliated. It has now put out 3/4 large fronds and is happily working on another.

~ S

@Swolte Glad to see it made it safe and sound with those temps! 

 

[Fallen Munk]

I just got two Jubutia F3 (Jubaea Butia) x Syagrus R.   from NW Palmscapes yesterday.  They are just small two leaf straps, so no photo yet because they just look like every other seedling at this point.

[Paradise Found]

26 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I just got two Jubutia F3 (Jubaea Butia) x Syagrus R.   from NW Palmscapes yesterday.  They are just small two leaf straps, so no photo yet because they just look like every other seedling at this point.

That is so cool. Should be extra hardy for us.  NW P. are they in Shoreline, WA?

Edited July 28, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Fallen Munk]

3 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

That is so cool. Should be extra hardy.  NW P. are they in Shoreline, WA?

Correct.  Here's a photo of a bigger one from their FB page.  Around 7 years from seed.

[Paradise Found]

2 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Correct.  Here's a photo of a bigger one from their FB page.  Around 7 years from seed.

WOWIE thats a beaute alright! Looks like FL. 

[Fallen Munk]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:51 PM, Trustandi said:

@Paradise Found I got it from a local palm nursery: NW palmscapes and Exotics so I didn't pay for the shipping. I think I paid around $60-70. It was a strap seedling.  Now it is maybe around 1 or 2 gal size. Yup it is the three way cross with just a little jubaea.  I think the real super mule might be the (BxJ) x (BxS). 

@Swoltethat is so beautiful. I want mine to be that big already 

 

 

How much time from a strap leaf to that photo?  I picked up a couple with two straps yesterday from NW Palmscapes and trying to gauge how fast they grow.

[Trustandi]

@Fallen Munkit is close to 2 years mark.  They might grow faster in your area since you get more heat than us. 

@Paradise Found nice looking addition. They will settle in happily with our nice warm summer. 

[Chester B]

So does he ship or do you have to drive all the way up there?  We're talking Dave A? Right?

[Trustandi]

Yes, he is Dave Alvarez. He does domestic shipping and Canada as well. I drove to get mine, he lives 25mins away from me.