Coconut Palm Freeze Protection (by Walt, aka 1royalpalm)

[Walt]

 

[PalmatierMeg]

Great teaching video, Walt. Your coconut looks fabulous.

[GottmitAlex]

Thank you Walt!!

[GottmitAlex]

18 hours ago, Walt said:

 

For any Cocos nucifera "scholar", this is a teaching moment.  Thanks Walt. 

Folks, whoever is zone pushing Cocos nucifera, please pay attention to this video. 

[ZPalms]

Awesome video, Thanks! gives me ideas on how I'll eventually protect my coconut from the freezing cold in 8A if and when I'd probably need to put it in the ground if it gets too big or if I don't get a greenhouse that can support its size but I do worry that my coconut will pretty much always be indefinitely defoliated and never recover quick enough each seasons but only time will tell! 

[Walt]

8 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

For any Cocos nucifera "scholar", this is a teaching moment.  Thanks Walt. 

Folks, whoever is zone pushing Cocos nucifera, please pay attention to this video. 

Thanks,  Alex.  Zone pushing for me with respect to my coconut is just one or two nights a year in a 5-year period. I haven't had to protect my coconut palm for the last 5 or more winters. I'm losing track now of the years.

[Walt]

8 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Awesome video, Thanks! gives me ideas on how I'll eventually protect my coconut from the freezing cold in 8A if and when I'd probably need to put it in the ground if it gets too big or if I don't get a greenhouse that can support its size but I do worry that my coconut will pretty much always be indefinitely defoliated and never recover quick enough each seasons but only time will tell! 

My technique may not work for you as well, especially where soil freezes. My soil doesn't freeze. But when the time comes you ever plant your coconut,  at least you can give my technique a try.

[ZPalms]

29 minutes ago, Walt said:

My technique may not work for you as well, especially where soil freezes. My soil doesn't freeze. But when the time comes you ever plant your coconut,  at least you can give my technique a try.

Ideally I'm gonna try and get some of that heated wire and bury some in the ground and put some around the tree and wrap the tree and If possible maybe build a temporary box around the tree so I can keep it dry and warm

Edited July 13, 2021 by ZPalms

[Walt]

18 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Ideally I'm gonna try and get some of that heated wire and bury some in the ground and put some around the tree and wrap the tree and If possible maybe build a temporary box around the tree so I can keep it dry and warm

When my coconut palm was younger and smaller (for the first several years) I used to fully protect it -- as you can see in the below photos from January of 2007. First I would cinch up the fronds (without breaking them) with a rope so as to reduce the girth of the palm. Cinching the fronds up also helps to protect parts of the fronds facing the inside. Then I would take a piece of 1" PVC pipe just long enough to reach over the top of the highest end frond, then tie the PVC pipe to the palm.  Next I would wrap my heating cable around the palm (but I found it's better to first wrap the palm with something like a flannel sheet, then wrap the heating cables over the sheet). After wrapping the palm with the heating cable,  then wrap the entire palm with a good insulated blanket/material (I normally would use a quilted mattress cover). The PVC pipe is used to support the static weight of the wrappings so that the weight of the insulation material doesn't break the ends of the fronds.

The more insulation wraps the better. I can start the wrap at the top of the PVC pipe and get several layers of wrap, resulting in a much higher R value. My coconut palm could be exposed to mid 20s with this method and not be damaged. Of course, I couldn't claim the same for your colder climate, but you might have a good chance of getting your palm to survive but with some damage.  But for my climate this method works fine. I used the same technique to protect a tall adonidia palm.  In my climate, even wrapping a zone 10b palm, but without heating cables, does wonders for protecting the palm from frost damage.

[Walt]

On 7/12/2021 at 10:22 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Great teaching video, Walt. Your coconut looks fabulous.

Thanks, Meg.  No way was I going to lose my coconut over just one bad night a year. Luckily, the past 5-6 years (or more) I haven't had to protect my coconut, although it got some frost and/or chilling damage.

[96720]

They are beautiful palms would love to grow one but will not take our heat and sun 

[ZPalms]

5 hours ago, Walt said:

When my coconut palm was younger and smaller (for the first several years) I used to fully protect it -- as you can see in the below photos from January of 2007. First I would cinch up the fronds (without breaking them) with a rope so as to reduce the girth of the palm. Cinching the fronds up also helps to protect parts of the fronds facing the inside. Then I would take a piece of 1" PVC pipe just long enough to reach over the top of the highest end frond, then tie the PVC pipe to the palm.  Next I would wrap my heating cable around the palm (but I found it's better to first wrap the palm with something like a flannel sheet, then wrap the heating cables over the sheet). After wrapping the palm with the heating cable,  then wrap the entire palm with a good insulated blanket/material (I normally would use a quilted mattress cover). The PVC pipe is used to support the static weight of the wrappings so that the weight of the insulation material doesn't break the ends of the fronds.

The more insulation wraps the better. I can start the wrap at the top of the PVC pipe and get several layers of wrap, resulting in a much higher R value. My coconut palm could be exposed to mid 20s with this method and not be damaged. Of course, I couldn't claim the same for your colder climate, but you might have a good chance of getting your palm to survive but with some damage.  But for my climate this method works fine. I used the same technique to protect a tall adonidia palm.  In my climate, even wrapping a zone 10b palm, but without heating cables, does wonders for protecting the palm from frost damage.

How long do you usually keep this up for? I think this would work for me but I'm not sure how long the palm could take being covered for a couple months but I also don't know how palms react to being covered like this for a long period of time but I think the general idea of it could work if I can keep the palm dry in a insulated box?

Edited July 14, 2021 by ZPalms

[Walt]

5 hours ago, ZPalms said:

How long do you usually keep this up for? I think this would work for me but I'm not sure how long the palm could take being covered for a couple months but I also don't know how palms react to being covered like this for a long period of time but I think the general idea of it could work if I can keep the palm dry in a insulated box?

The most I think I ever kept my palm (that I mummify like in my pics) is about three days.  Again, it's because of my climate compared to yours. Most severe cold fronts only last 2-3 days at most, then it warms up again -- then I take off the wraps.

If I lived in your climate I would employ a different protection method. For example, for a palm the size of my coconut palm back in 2007, I would cinch it up, then build a cardboard box(s) wall all around it. Or, maybe, and better yet, I would buy insulation board sheathing (4' by 8' by 1") sheets from Home depot and build an insulated box (like you mentioned in your last post). That way, during the day you could open up one side (south side where palm could get the most sun).  Inside the insulated box you could install an old electric grill(s) for supplemental heat.

I've never constructed an insulated box but I have constructed plastic tarp tents around small palms and tropical shrubs, then putting an old electric skillet inside the tent for heat. I just use those green steel fence post you can drive into the ground (like four posts, then drape tarp over the posts and let tarp go all the way to the ground). If the posts aren't long enough you can extend them with 1" PVC pipe and just use duct tape to splice them together. What I do is down and dirty -- but it's functional and serves the purpose.  But tents are mainly for small, short palms and shrubs.  An insulated box would be best for a taller palm. Cinching the fronds up as much as possible will reduce the volume of the insulated box, thus requiring less supplemental heat. Since hot air rises, just putting an old electric skillet at the base of the palm will allow the hotter air from the skillet rise up and envelope the entire palm.

I would place a remote thermometer sensor inside the box that transmits to a base station so you can monitor the temperature inside the box. I belileve a good insulated box, along with a skillet for heat would be enough to protect a palm even if the outdoor temperature got down to 10 degrees. If you have good insulation only minimal heat will be needed. You can even build a double walled box for twice the amount of R value.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/R-Tech-1-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-3-85-Insulating-Sheathing-320821/202532854

 

 

[NickJames]

Thanks for posting! 

[ZPalms]

21 hours ago, Walt said:

The most I think I ever kept my palm (that I mummify like in my pics) is about three days.  Again, it's because of my climate compared to yours. Most severe cold fronts only last 2-3 days at most, then it warms up again -- then I take off the wraps.

If I lived in your climate I would employ a different protection method. For example, for a palm the size of my coconut palm back in 2007, I would cinch it up, then build a cardboard box(s) wall all around it. Or, maybe, and better yet, I would buy insulation board sheathing (4' by 8' by 1") sheets from Home depot and build an insulated box (like you mentioned in your last post). That way, during the day you could open up one side (south side where palm could get the most sun).  Inside the insulated box you could install an old electric grill(s) for supplemental heat.

I've never constructed an insulated box but I have constructed plastic tarp tents around small palms and tropical shrubs, then putting an old electric skillet inside the tent for heat. I just use those green steel fence post you can drive into the ground (like four posts, then drape tarp over the posts and let tarp go all the way to the ground). If the posts aren't long enough you can extend them with 1" PVC pipe and just use duct tape to splice them together. What I do is down and dirty -- but it's functional and serves the purpose.  But tents are mainly for small, short palms and shrubs.  An insulated box would be best for a taller palm. Cinching the fronds up as much as possible will reduce the volume of the insulated box, thus requiring less supplemental heat. Since hot air rises, just putting an old electric skillet at the base of the palm will allow the hotter air from the skillet rise up and envelope the entire palm.

I would place a remote thermometer sensor inside the box that transmits to a base station so you can monitor the temperature inside the box. I belileve a good insulated box, along with a skillet for heat would be enough to protect a palm even if the outdoor temperature got down to 10 degrees. If you have good insulation only minimal heat will be needed. You can even build a double walled box for twice the amount of R value.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/R-Tech-1-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-3-85-Insulating-Sheathing-320821/202532854

 

 

These are great tips! Appreciate the ideas! I'm 100% going to get insulating sheathing to build the box and I actually have an electric oil heater which puts off heat slowly which will keep things toasty, and since it usually doesn't warm up here during the winter during the day do you think making plastic polycarbonate sheets for windows would be a good alternative than to open the box for sunlight?

 

Lucky me though my coconut is still a baby and small enough to bring inside for the winter but I'm going to refer to this thread when it's time is up and I can no longer move it anymore! It's going to be a real challenge when winter comes even with it being indoor because of temperature and humidity

[Walt]

42 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

These are great tips! Appreciate the ideas! I'm 100% going to get insulating sheathing to build the box and I actually have an electric oil heater which puts off heat slowly which will keep things toasty, and since it usually doesn't warm up here during the winter during the day do you think making plastic polycarbonate sheets for windows would be a good alternative than to open the box for sunlight?

 

Lucky me though my coconut is still a baby and small enough to bring inside for the winter but I'm going to refer to this thread when it's time is up and I can no longer move it anymore! It's going to be a real challenge when winter comes even with it being indoor because of temperature and humidity

Well, the polycarbonate sheets would let is some sunlight.  But let's face it, any coconut you plant in the ground in your zone, regardless of protection method would be on borrowed time. You would be far better off trying to grow a queen palm or butiagrus or becarriophoenix alfredii,  some species of palm that was rated for zone 9a. I'm fortunate that with respect to a coconut palm, I only have to concern myself with one or two bad nights each winter.  And as I said, the pat 5-6 winters I haven't had to protect my coconut palm, although it did get cosmetic damage to the oldest fronds.   I gave up on trying to grow palms one of more USDA zones higher than my own.  I got them to last for maybe many years, but they were ultimately killed by freeze and heavy frost.

[ZPalms]

2 minutes ago, Walt said:

Well, the polycarbonate sheets would let is some sunlight.  But let's face it, any coconut you plant in the ground in your zone, regardless of protection method would be on borrowed time. You would be far better off trying to grow a queen palm or butiagrus or becarriophoenix alfredii,  some species of palm that was rated for zone 9a. I'm fortunate that with respect to a coconut palm, I only have to concern myself with one or two bad nights each winter.  And as I said, the pat 5-6 winters I haven't had to protect my coconut palm, although it did get cosmetic damage to the oldest fronds.   I gave up on trying to grow palms one of more USDA zones higher than my own.  I got them to last for maybe many years, but they were ultimately killed by freeze and heavy frost.

My coconut is really just an experiment if it does survive the couple of winters while its small, I want to put it inside a greenhouse by itself but I've already accepted that if it dies then that will be it for that, but I know that putting it in the ground is not a option long term unless I do have a greenhouse which is something I'm constantly calculating on how to make cost effective at the height that I want 

[GottmitAlex]

3 hours ago, ZPalms said:

My coconut is really just an experiment if it does survive the couple of winters while its small, I want to put it inside a greenhouse by itself but I've already accepted that if it dies then that will be it for that, but I know that putting it in the ground is not a option long term unless I do have a greenhouse which is something I'm constantly calculating on how to make cost effective at the height that I want 

Have you thought about Trachycarpus, Chamaerops H. or Jubea chilensis palms for your area? 

[ZPalms]

9 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Have you thought about Trachycarpus, Chamaerops H. or Jubea chilensis palms for your area? 

Yes! I own a Chamaerops H already and I'm about to buy 2 Trachycarpus and I've been trying to find Jubea x Butia and Butia x Jubea hybrid seeds!

[South Brevard]

So I did this today! Two malayan dwarfs.  We live in South Brevard, just a half mile off the water so probably wont be an issue but I wanted to treat this as a test run.  Ive got a thermocouple inside and another one outside. Delta Tis at 10 degrees so its working! 

[South Brevard]

Updating now that the cold is gone, ambient overnight low first night 33.8, second night 32.7 both for less than 30 min. Spanned 2-3 hours below 36 each night. Palm surface temp stayed 10-20 degrees hotter during the night. I was surprised to get this much delta T.  Lowest temp over the entire time was 48.4 but stayed well above 50 during the coldest periods.  

This idea appears to have worked very well, thanks!