Chelsea Physic Garden in London

[UK_Palms]

We finally had a break in the rain today, so I decided to visit Chelsea Physic Garden. It was my first time visiting this place and the main draw for me was obviously the palms. There are some cracking specimens growing in the gardens, as well as quite a few other exotic plants and stuff that I will post.

Their CIDP isn't anywhere near as big as some of the other London ones, but still a decent size...

 

Here is their Washingtonia...

 

It's labelled as 'Filifera', although I can clearly see red/brown on the petiole bases, so it is definitely a Filibusta hybrid. Maybe I should have corrected them haha. It doesn't get much sunlight either in that spot, which is heavily shaded. I think it was planted in 2010 possibly and it is about 20-25 foot tall now. I should have asked a worker about it.

 

The Butia is probably the best palm in the entire garden...

Lots of spent spathes on this Butia...

 

The Jubaea Chilensis isn't bad either...

The girth on this Jubaea trunk...

 

Group shots...

 

Quite a few Chamaerops on display...

 

Trachycarpus Wagnerianus...

 

Cordyline Australis...

 

Musa Basjoo...

 

Dicksonia Antarctica...

 

Opuntia cacti...

 

Agave Americana...?

 

Nolina Nelsonii...?

 

Surprised to see citrus Lemon growing outdoors...

 

Surprised to see this in one of the glass houses. No idea whether it could be transplanted outdoors at some point?

 

This is the biggest pepper plant I have ever seen. I'm guessing it is at least 3 years old and has clearly been overwintered.

 

Unfortunately a lot of the glass houses were shut off, due to the pandemic and 'social distancing'. Some were still open though, thankfully.

 

 

One thing I will say, is that this garden has the potential to be better than it is. They could certainly plant a few more palms and exotics outdoors. Perhaps a Brahea Armata for instance, or some more outdoor cacti. Even just a few more Trachy's. I also get the impression they have been understaffed due to the pandemic and thus the general garden maintenance is not on point this year. Basically, it could be a bit better than it was. Lots of weeds growing in places and dead leaves on plants that could be cut back. A very rustic feel, which perhaps is intended.

Not a bad garden at all though for central London, although the £12 ($17) entry fee is a bit steep, given that everything can be easily seen within 60-90 minutes basically. This isn't a big expansive garden like Kew or Wisley, where you need at least 5-6 hours. This is a relatively small garden in the heart of the city. A place to spend an hour or two on a summer's afternoon. Maybe in other years, when there hasn't been a pandemic, they have had more flowers and plants with more workers maintaining them. I will definitely be back again though, one day, when those palms are much bigger. 

[UK_Palms]

The garden's website recommends that you use the car park/parking lot over at nearby Battersea Park, which is what I did. This also meant that I could check up on the subtropical garden at Battersea Park, which is literally a 10 minute walk from Chelsea Physic Garden and about 2 minutes away from where I parked the car. Pretty convenient...

=

 

Good to see a few Brahea Armata's planted there...

 

These two Washingtonia Filifera's had blotched transplants about a decade ago, suffering massive transplant shock and taking years to settle in. They are probably still recovering now. I think they were planted, then dug up with barely any roots, then replanted again, only to lean at angles and not be stabilised. Far from ideal for them, especially in our less than ideal climate. 

 

One of them was set on fire a few years back as well by a mini BBQ. Nonetheless, they are surviving and growing. I think they'll look a lot better in the coming years. Certainly some of the less good looking washies around London, but unique in that they are both leaning. This park is right out in the open as well, minimising any UHI. The nearest building is about half a mile away. The bigger one of the two looks a lot better in person, I can assure. There may be a hint of Robusta DNA in there, but they both look very Filifera-like to me.

 

Those washies suddenly look pretty good compared to this lethargic, trunk-stripped Trachy that is nearby... 

 

There's 3-4 Jubaea's in the subtropical garden...

Cycas Revoluta...

It looks like the smallest one is flushing...

[UK_Palms]

On the way back from central London. I checked out the big Wimbledon washie on Darlaston Road as well, since I had to come back that way. This thing must be at least 35 foot now, since it is taller than the 3 story house it is next to. The crown looked fuller and better last year though. The weather has been awful this year and it does show this summer in the crowns of various London washies. They're not as full or pristine looking this year, but they are still relatively good considering these are located at 51N...

A big spear protruding up on it though...

 

Here's the smaller one across the road. There is a lot of red coloration on the petiole bases and aggressive thorns, but the trunk just looks too fat for Robusta. It has to be a hybrid. 

 

I also checked out the washie in New Malden, which is only 5-10 minutes away from the ones above. This one is taller than the house as well now too...

 

I have been referring to it as a Filifera, going by Google Earth, but I can now confirm that it is a hybrid as it has some red/brown on the petiole bases. A lot of FIlifera in it though...

 

The Chamaerops next to it must be about 10ft in height as well and has been heavily pruned...

[gurugu]

Hi. 

Congratulations for your posts on palms in the UK. I find them very interesting. 

It's amazing how "palmy landscape" has changed all over England for the last 20/30 years. 

I remember being there a number of times in the 70s and only a few trachys could be seen here and there. 

I went bak to London in 1986 for the last time, and yet, not too many palms to be seen in the streets or public /private gardens. 

Kew gardens did show some around the temperate glasshouse, but that was all. 

Once again, very well documented posts full of pictures on palms. 

There is a big potential for different palmtrees in London and Southern parts of England. I wish, both people and councils, would plant more in gardens and streets. 

Thank you and keep them coming

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu The palm scene is moving rapidly over here. It has gone from practically just a few Trachy's say 20-30 years ago, to suddenly lots of big CIDP's and Washingtonia's in recent years. I reckon Washies will become the main dominant palm around London over the next decade. They are suddenly popping up everywhere. People are only just realising how hardy they are here and how quick growing they are too. CIDP's have been grown in the London area for the past 10-20 years, but people are only really just clocking on to the Washingtonia potential here now.

Here are some more that I've just found in east London... 

 

Here's another in Rum Close, east London. Must be at least a 20 footer. You never would have saw anything like this just 10 years ago...

 

Here's another. Looks like a Filifera...

 

The Robusta's near Kew Gardens are ridiculous. They look even bigger in person. They are level with the roof now as someone recently confirmed.

 

Earl's Court Robusta in central London is a bit bigger and better though. At least 30 foot tall now.

 

The Minster on Sea specimen, about an hour outside of London, is probably the tallest specimen on the mainland (that we know of). This has grown 25 foot in about 10 years. This picture was taken immediately after a harsh winter.

 

Dave Brown is the original washie pioneer on the outskirts of East London. Some of the bigger ones would have been there before his though such as the big Wimbledon one.

 

 

Isle of Dogs Filifera in East London...

 

Barry's 35 foot Filifera is still probably the best palm in London though. This picture is at least 2-3 years old now. It's an absolute monster.

 

The Canvey and Chingford Filifera's aren't far behind...

 

CIDP will lose its foothold in London in the coming years. The washies here grow 2-3 times as quickly as CIDP. The big ones have grown 20 foot in 10 years. There will be 40 foot+ washies here by 2030. Right now CIDP is the dominant palm, but that won't last. The council and gardeners will take notice of the washie's hardiness and quick growth, and start planting them instead of CIDP's. I am already seeing that Trachy's are being phased out, which is good. Not really a fan of them and they are overplanted here on every street. I would replace Trachy's with Washies. People in CA probably have the exact opposite outlook.

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu Here's another 20 footer washie in west London...

 

The London CIDP's are something else entirely now...

 

Brahea Armata's are doing well here as well, although pretty slow growing...

Edited August 1, 2021 by UK_Palms

[Tyrone]

Would never have guessed London for any of your pics at all. Especially the bananas. 

Also I can’t grow Brahea here as it’s too wet, so London grows a better Brahea than southern coastal WA.  Washingtonias though grow like weeds and the only ones I have are volunteers in pots that I will give away.

Theres an industry here based around removing Washingtonias and Syagrus. 

[gurugu]

That Brahea is a winner, three times bigger than the only one I know of in a public garden here, which was planted in 2001 as a small plant. (too much rain, and lack of sunshine here for a decent growth, I suppose) 

The most seen palms here are: Phoenix,  Chamaerops and Trachycarpus. Many of them over 100 years old. Very few, but old Butias, Washingtonias (both robusta and filifera). Even fewer Howeas forsterianas, and just one 60 year old Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana. And that's all. 

From your pictures I see that most of the palms are being grown in private gardens. Do you think that city councils are prone to plant palms in rows along the streets or in groups in public gardens? 

Here only very few rows of Washingtonias or Phoenix can be seen in some streets. A pity. 

Ditto: It is rewarding to see so many different palms in the UK. And very encouraging for other countries. I would like to see Howeas and Archontophoenix and many more species to be planted here, even in beaches, as they do in southern Spain. 

[UK_Palms]

@Tyrone I would never have guessed London for any of these pics just 5 years ago either, but the palm scene is changing quickly here. We are lightyears ahead of where we were just 5 years ago. People started gambling with small CIDP's in London about 10-20 years ago and now it is paying off as they are maturing into big, imposing specimens. And lots of them.

I reckon there is 100+ CIDP's now with 3 meters of trunk in London. Other people have seen this, taking notice that they are in fact hardy here, so even more are being planted now. In central London, CIDP is now the dominant palm outnumbering Trachy's even. With the exception of the biggest specimens, people only really started planting washies about 10 years ago. Due to their quick growth though, there are already 30 foot washies around London now. Filifera seems to do especially well here, when in theory, it probably shouldn't.

If you can't grow Brahea Armata in Albany, do you also struggle with Filifera there as well, or do they grow okay? I take it Dactylifera is out of the question for you guys as well? Just curious. Again, it is strange how Filifera and Brahea do okay in London and southern England. You say it is too wet where you are, but our winters are really wet, cool and gloomy up here at 51N. Far from ideal. I am especially surprised that Brahea doesn't grow well in Albany. But then again you guys can grow Queens, Rhopalostylis, coconuts etc.

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu Are you a Spaniard living in northern Spain, or did you migrate over there? Your English is very good! The Brahea Armata's are very slow growing here as well, but they do not experience winter damage. They are very hardy, just slow, like in your location. They are obviously slow in general anywhere though, compared to most other palms...

 

Here's the Canvey one, about an hour outside of London...

 

This is the Brahea in Kensal House in Ladbroke Grove, London.

 

 

The councils have done some street plantings around London, but not many. Like 90% are probably private gardens. The washie by the river in Little Venice is a council planting from about 12 years ago I believe. Another 20 footer now pretty much.

 

The ones in St. James Square are council as well...

 

This CIDP has to be a council planted one outside the Church in Ealing, west London. Parish council would have planted it. What's that going to look like in a couple of years. 

 

Same with the Wimbledon Fire Station

 

These two are definitely council planted in Notting Hill. The street view image is 2-3 years old now.

 

Spotted another washie at Canvey Island, just on the outskirts of east London. That area is a bit of a hotspot.

 

Canvey obviously has the big Filifera too...

 

Few others

 

This is probably the tallest CIDP in London. It must be be at least 40 foot now. I think it was planted as a tiny palm way back in 1989 or something, making it 30+ years old now. Definitely the oldest CIDP in London. But if you last visited London back in 1986, this palm still wouldn't have existed back then.

 

 

[gurugu]

Hi, UK_ palms.

I´m a native of Spain. I´ve been living in your country and in the USA, and I learned  just a bit of English.

This is the brahea I was telling you about.

It was planted in the early 2001, as a small plant. No trunk yet then. But,  as you see, it hasn´t grown much for the last 20 years. Smaller than the Canvey one shown above by you. And we are talking about a 10A zone here. All the entire northern Spanish coastal strip is considered a 10a zone, except, maybe, the basque contry.

The palm on the left is a Livistona chinensis, the one on the right, a Washingtonia filifera, and at the back you can see a Phoenix reclinata.

Do you happen to know if , in general, palmtrees in your area, are planted already big?

 Here , especially city councils, have been planting, already pretty tall, Phoenix dactylifera and canariensis, Washingtonias robusta, Butias eryospatha and some Syagrus romanzoffiana. Not as many as wished, but...

It´s amazing the palmy atmosphere London and southern UK are attaining lately. Bravo for you!

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu  One thing about the palms over here in the UK is that they are almost ALWAYS planted small. There has never really been many big ones imported from the Med and especially not now after Brexit. Pretty much every palm in this thread was planted as a very small palm and they have just grown over the years. That's why we are only seeing big ones appear now.

People were not planting CIDP and Washingtonia in the 80's and 90's. They weren't really sold in garden centres, unlike now. Also people didn't realise they were hardy in London until more recently. Small ones only really became available to us in the 2000's, so most of these were planted as small palms around 2000-2010. We have been playing catch up a bit in recent years, but those CIDP's and Washies are growing at lightspeed now in London. Lots of big specimens appearing. 

The growth on the London CIDP's is ridiculous given this is up at 51N. Here is a location I have posted above, but shown back in 2008. Notice the 3 small CIDP's on the intersections.

And again in 2020, just 12 years later...

 

The council placed CIDP outside the east London church was planted small. Here it is in 2008 which was the earliest available street view image...

And now...

 

Earliest street view on the Egerton Place, London CIDP which was in 2008...

And in 2020...

 

Here's another one I have posted above back in 2008...

And again in 2020...

 

This 2008 street view image shows several CIDP's in London gardens just clearing the fence...

And now...

 

Sutherland Square, London CIDP in 2008...

And in 2020...

 

One of hundreds of private garden plantings around London, shown back in 2008...

And in 2020...

 

The earliest the Heyworth Road, London CIDP's go back to is 2008...

 

Here they are in 2020...

 

CIDP on the outskirts of southwest London in 2008...

 

And 2020...

 

 Here are the Kew (London) Robusta's in 2012

And then 8 years later in 2020...

 

Another small Robusta in East London back in 2008...

And not so small in 2020...

 

New Malden washie in 2008, when the Cordyline was bigger than the Washy...

And again now in 2021...

 

Minster-on-Sea specimen in 2009, about an hour east from London...

And again 11 years later in 2020 (must have grown 20 feet in 10 years).

 

Here's the location for the Canvey Filifera, to the east of London. Street view image only goes back to 2009...

And 10 years later in 2019...

 

Here's the one by the Canal in Little Venice, London back in 2013. I think it was planted around 2007 as a much smaller palm.

And again in 2020 with it being least 20 foot in height now...

 

The Filibusta in Chelsea Physic Gardens used to look like this in 2008 I believe..

.

And obviously looks like this today, as shown in this thread...

 

Ilford washie was tiny in 2008...

And in 2020...

 

Acton, northwest London washie poking above the bushes in 2012...

 

2018...

 

Here's the Canvey Brahea Armata in 2009...

And again in 2020. Probably the same size as the one you posted in northern Spain.

 

As you can see these palms were all planted pretty small. The Google Earth street view only goes back to 2008, so they were probably even smaller when planted. Apart from the odd few, there isn't any big, mature plantings. All of these small palms survived December 2010, which was our coldest month on record, back when they were tiny little palms. That was also one of the coldest winters ever. Yet they survived when tiny. Now at their current sizes, I can't see any amount of cold knocking them out. Not with their trunks as thick as they are now.

We have basically had to grow all these bigger ones from very small palms over the past 10-20 years. The councils should ship in much bigger Robusta's and CIDP's from Spain for street plantings, just to speed things up. If tiny palms can make it here, fully mature ones will have no problem. London could have 'skydusters' tomorrow by importing, otherwise we will probably be waiting another 20 years. We are getting there though, slowly. This summer has been the worst since 2012 and it has been one of the worst years in decades. Cool and wet. We'll see how they do over winter. Some may struggle. We're moving in the right direction though.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by UK_Palms

[Samuel]

Wow it is actually incredible how many palms we have growing now it does make you wonder how it will look in another 10 years given the continued forecast for our climate to warm tho I still wouldn’t rule out a cold wave that would wipe them out we are very far north and we saw this past year even Texas lost palms due to the cold 

[UK_Palms]

December 2010 was the coldest month on record, yet all those CIDP’s and washies survived back when they were still tiny little palms. So do you really think they will get knocked out now that they have grown big, fat trunks. The Robusta’s could get knocked out, potentially, but those big Filifera’s aren’t going anywhere.

The biggest CIDP was planted in like 1988 as well remember. It has survived 30+ years. London’s UHI is stronger than ever now as well. I doubt it will ever drop below -7C in central London again. Even that is on the extreme end. They had -6C in Dec 2010 and Feb 2018. The palms are only going to get bigger and hardier over the next 5-10 years.

[gurugu]

Definitely, palms grow faster there than here, despite us being at 43ºN (8 degrees latitude less than you in London) and having milder winters and a little bit warmer summers.

Our yearly temperature average is around 14ºC at airports and between 14/ 15ºC in dowtown big cities. The average yearly rainfall is about 1.200 litres.

If most of those palms were planted as a small size, I´m fairly confident that if London´s council planted Syagrus romanzoffiana in downtown areas or in city centers of big cities on the south coast, they should have a chance of surviving and growing more than happily.

These ones were planted pretty tall ( at least 4 mts, or more, of clear trunk) in the early 2000 and set seeds.

https://www.google.es/maps/@43.5415182,-5.6943683,3a,37y,14.63h,89.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLqNMJKwAV4zr8OKCPxDtdA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

These ones were planted at the same time too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2748802,-2.9616344,3a,33y,137.72h,98.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stzcH8Ig4hJbr1EwU5fEPrQ!2e0!5s20100101T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

These Ph. Dactyliferas, too, were planted even taller, at the same time. Along with the Butias.(2/3 mts of trunk when planted)

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2831479,-2.9656299,3a,33.4y,304.05h,94.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZxnYbs0gLPRJSXQHMIy5Ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

If you check on google pictures from different years, you´ll see no big differences in size.

For sure you´ve done an excellent job, both in data and pictures on palmtrees in London and the south of England. Congratulations and thanks for sharing.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Julio, nobody so far succeded in growing syagrus in the UK, not even in mild London.

The most northerly location syagus can grow is Brittany in France. The main reason for this, in my opinion, is winterday temps. Just like your location winterdays in Brittany are steadily above 10C (your location has even warmer winterdays i am sure). This means queens never shut down but stay active. London gets a great number of winterdays below 10C. So queens became inactive and there is no heat to produce more than 2 fronds a summer season. So i would be very surprised to see queens in London. Larger ones will have wrecked fronds every winter i am sure of cold winds and no sun despite no hard frosts.

For me queens only grow in 2 types of climates:

-yearround mild climates with winterdays between 10 and 15C in winter with modest night frosts

-hot summer climates with incidentally some stronger frosts. Here they bounce back after defoliation (but not on a yearly basis)

london has cold winterdays below 10C and not enough summerheat to compensate for brown fronds. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Axel Amsterdam

[gurugu]

I´m afraid you are right, Axel.

But it is a pity not to give it a try in central London, close to the river Thames ( the closer to a body of water, the better) and on the south side of a tall building.

Maybe, with London´s big heat island effect, it could have a chance.

Besides, if planted as a tall specimen and sorrounded by concrete, the chances would be bigger.

I usually keep an eye on temperatures in London and southern England, and the gap with ours is not that big.

It´s true what you say about winter daily maximum temperatures. Ours is 13º/14ºC for the coldest month. And late autum, all winter and early spring, southerly winds blow the most, allowing us to enjoy even minimum temperatures around 20ºC for several days.

Let´s hope that some day, some well off person plants one and proves us wrong.

[UK_Palms]

It probably is a bit too cold in winter for Syagrus Romanzoffiana and the cold is certainly more prolonged than in northern Spain. However there are exceptions. I think there are a few Queens being grown in the southwest (Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset). I've got 2 Queens planted out here in Surrey. No evidence they are long term in the UK. Plus there are Barry's Queens in north London. He has a couple planted out. The guy with the big Filifera in his back yard. I haven't heard any update on his garden in about 2 years now, but I think his Queens had been planted out for like 3-4 years at that point. Possibly even longer. It would be good to see an update. This was the last I saw of his garden. 

 

[petiole10]

15 hours ago, gurugu said:

I´m afraid you are right, Axel.

But it is a pity not to give it a try in central London, close to the river Thames ( the closer to a body of water, the better) and on the south side of a tall building.

Maybe, with London´s big heat island effect, it could have a chance.

Besides, if planted as a tall specimen and sorrounded by concrete, the chances would be bigger.

I usually keep an eye on temperatures in London and southern England, and the gap with ours is not that big.

It´s true what you say about winter daily maximum temperatures. Ours is 13º/14ºC for the coldest month. And late autum, all winter and early spring, southerly winds blow the most, allowing us to enjoy even minimum temperatures around 20ºC for several days.

Let´s hope that some day, some well off person plants one and proves us wrong.

Hola!  I would think that palm weevil is a bigger threat to palms in your region than the climate (low temperatures, frost etc). Perhaps this pest accounts for the relatively lower number of palms that might be expected for your region that you mention, bearing in mind so many tens/hundreds of thousands of Phoenix Canariensis have been wiped out by the weevil across vast swathes of southern europe, having been such an iconic feature of the landscape.. Such is the terrible effect of this pest, that the numbers lost greatly exceeds any number that might be lost in an unusually cold spell of weather - and its one good reason why date palms in London remain buoyant and on the increase - because the weevil hasn't (yet) made inroads. If it did, then it would threaten the existence of these lovely palms in the same way as more southern parts of europe - and much more than the variables of sub zero temperatures from some one-off decadal/mutl-decadal cold spell.

That is the terrible irony - where freezes are most common, weevils are least common (or do not yet exist). But also where freezes are least common (or do not exist) the weevil flourishes. Its a lose situation for the palm tree whichever way, but more especially the bigger threat is the weevil in my opinion.

For me now in Portugal, this has become my new focus as replacement for cold weather watching as it had been in the UK. With at least 25 palms, of various species (and some which  I imported from my previous home in the UK) its pretty much a daily look out for these dreadful insects as they fly clumsily around in the sky eyeing up your garden!....

[gurugu]

20 hours ago, petiole10 said:

Hola!  I would think that palm weevil is a bigger threat to palms in your region than the climate (low temperatures, frost etc). Perhaps this pest accounts for the relatively lower number of palms that might be expected for your region that you mention, bearing in mind so many tens/hundreds of thousands of Phoenix Canariensis have been wiped out by the weevil across vast swathes of southern europe, having been such an iconic feature of the landscape.. Such is the terrible effect of this pest, that the numbers lost greatly exceeds any number that might be lost in an unusually cold spell of weather - and its one good reason why date palms in London remain buoyant and on the increase - because the weevil hasn't (yet) made inroads. If it did, then it would threaten the existence of these lovely palms in the same way as more southern parts of europe - and much more than the variables of sub zero temperatures from some one-off decadal/mutl-decadal cold spell.

That is the terrible irony - where freezes are most common, weevils are least common (or do not yet exist). But also where freezes are least common (or do not exist) the weevil flourishes. Its a lose situation for the palm tree whichever way, but more especially the bigger threat is the weevil in my opinion.

For me now in Portugal, this has become my new focus as replacement for cold weather watching as it had been in the UK. With at least 25 palms, of various species (and some which  I imported from my previous home in the UK) its pretty much a daily look out for these dreadful insects as they fly clumsily around in the sky eyeing up your garden!....

Petiole10

¡Hola!¡Bom dia!

Luckily, so far, we haven´t  had  Rinchophorus ferrugineum (RF), palm weevil in our region, as far as I know of. Only  a couple of cases were reported in Oviedo (Asturias) a few years back, but with few individuals.

RF have caused havoc all along the Mediterranean and the Atlantic coasts of Spain and Portugal, not the Cantabric one. From La Coruña to San Sebastián we haven´t had that issue (so far), and it is said that it is because they dont like rainfall in warm seasons.

I took this picture in Vigo (Galicia)5 years ago. The Atlantic coast of Galicia enjoys an almost Mediterranean climate in summer, and, despite being one of the rainiest places in Spain, it only does in autum, winter and spring.

We have high rainfall figures all year round.

It would be interesting to know if the Atlantic coast of France doesn´t suffer either RF problem. Or the Black sea, both the Russian and the Turquish coasts. Because they also have very rainy summers. Any member of he forum from those places could inform us about it.

What accounts for the relatively lower number of palms that might be expected for my region, is not the chance of growing them but the lack of interest, atmosphere among people in general. We can grow many species of palms here, since we are in a 10A zone, but people and councils, simply, don´t know or don´t care. There are some palm enthusiasts along the north coast of Spain who are growing a more than decent amount of species of palms and tropical plants.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 2:13 AM, UK_Palms said:

It probably is a bit too cold in winter for Syagrus Romanzoffiana and the cold is certainly more prolonged than in northern Spain. However there are exceptions. I think there are a few Queens being grown in the southwest (Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Somerset). I've got 2 Queens planted out here in Surrey. No evidence they are long term in the UK. Plus there are Barry's Queens in north London. He has a couple planted out. The guy with the big Filifera in his back yard. I haven't heard any update on his garden in about 2 years now, but I think his Queens had been planted out for like 3-4 years at that point. Possibly even longer. It would be good to see an update. This was the last I saw of his garden. 

 

UK_ palms.

Those syagrus do prove us wrong if they have survived3/4 years so far, despite having been planted rather small.

The ones I showed were planted as 4/5 mts tall of clear trunk, so the chances for them to survive in England would be greater. Don´t you think?

[Axel Amsterdam]

The syagrus in the London garden have been protected in winter. I havent had contact with the owner recently so dont know if thats still the case but they cant be regarded as proof.

Another grower in a coastal location (Dorset) tried a mature one with a large trunk, years ago. It survived one winter with all the fronds defoliated and died later.

Here is Amsterdam i grew one for around 3 years, larger than the ones in the London garden. It always suffered fronds browning way before the real cold snaps started. I always protected the trunk but it never grew more than around 1,5 fronds in a summerseason. 

In my opinion they hate defoliation and need loads of heat to come back. And they hate weeks of windy and cloudy 6C days, the fronds really suffer from cold winds. So perhaps against a large south facing wall in central London is the only possibilty. 
 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Axel Amsterdam

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu Yes, I definitely agree that planting bigger, mature specimens means they will not only be hardier at that stage, but also quicker to put out new growth. Smaller, younger palms in general are always going to be less hardy and less quick to put out new growth. Mature Washingtonia Filifera for instance also handle wet-cold much better than small Filifera’s, as the London pics show. 

Unfortunately we just don’t seem to import big specimens over here though. I wish we did. As you can see, all those CIDP’s and Washingtonia’s have been planted pretty small. Imagine how big they would be now if we had imported big specimens from Andalusia! Instead of planting tiny palms. Like 95% of palm plantings are small here, so they have done well to get to their current sizes up here at 51N. I still think the London councils should import some big Robusta’s for street plantings. I would even try a mature Dactylifera in a protected spot in central London. Maybe a few mature Queens as well. The council will never do it though.

Here are my Syagrus Romanzoffiana out in the rural countryside at 51N. This summer has been pretty bad, the worst since 2012. This year as well, 2021, has been really bad here. Winter was colder than normal, then we had the coldest spring on record, followed by a poor summer. Not ideal at all for these Queens! Growth has been a lot slower than I would like. The record cold spring really set them back and delayed new growth. 

 

These have taken -4C and looked like this at one point… 

I don’t have any urban heat island effect here either as I am out in the rural countryside, so this is really pushing the boundaries. Central London can be up to 5C warmer than me on the coldest of winter nights. If these do end up surviving here, they will almost certainly survive in a good, protected spot in central London. 

@Axel Amsterdam I’m pretty sure Barry does not protect his queens in north London, at least not the one on the patio by his Robusta. That one was left to fend for itself from a tiny seedling and was like 10 foot tall the last I heard. It would be good to get an update on his stuff in general, especially the Queens and his 35 foot Filifera. I agree that is not proof of their survival here though and they probably aren’t long term anywhere.

Central London probably stands the best chance at growing them due to the summer heat. The south coast may be warmer in winter but when London hits 30-35C in summer, the south coast is like 20-25C. I think the CIDP’s look better and healthier in London than they do in Cornwall. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thats possible. I know he protected the one near his house and these 2 were in pots before. I know 1 of these is a Santa Catarina. Perhaps the fatter one on the right? 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Axel Amsterdam

[gurugu]

UK_Palms

 

This Syagrus (the same as the one in the 2nd link in a previous post) was planted in 2001, more or less, with a clear trunk of 3/4 mts tall. It started setting seeds after 3/4 years. Had it been planted as a seedling, it wouldn´t be setting seeds yet, after 20 years in the ground.

Mine were planted the same size as yours  in the picture, and after 25 years , they haven´t set seeds yet, despite being 6/7 mts tall with 5 mts of clear trunk (too much time under shade, I´m afraid)

8 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Unfortunately we just don’t seem to import big specimens over here though. I wish we did. As you can see, all those CIDP’s and Washingtonia’s have been planted pretty small. Imagine how big they would be now if we had imported big specimens from Andalusia! Instead of planting tiny palms

 

8 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

This summer has been pretty bad, the worst since 2012. This year as well, 2021, has been really bad here. Winter was colder than normal, then we had the coldest spring on record, followed by a poor summer

Pretty much the same here. A below average spring and summer so far and rain too.

Those syagrus of yours look very healthy, even after the snow and all.

Petiole 10

I forgot to mention that you have chosen the country with the best climate to live in, and to plant palmtrees. I´ve been to Portugal a number of times, and I just love it! Besides, for us Spaniards, the language is not a problem

[UK_Palms]

@gurugu CIDP reigns supreme across London now. Even Trachycarpus Fortunei cannot compete with their size and grandeur anymore. They have completely smashed Trachycarpus out of the water here now. I hate to say it, but the Trachy's look like crap compared to the big, majestic CIDP's around London with full crowns. Here's a load more of them from London. These ones were planted small as well but have put on tons of growth. No red palm weevil, as of yet at least in London...

Council estate CIDP's...

Another church CIDP in London...

This street view image is over 2 years old now...

This street view image is 2+ years old as well... just round the corner from Kew Garden and those 2 Robusta's...

Mount Street Gardens CIDP in central London... picture is 2+ years old now...

These may be council street plantings on Appleford Road, London...

Street view hit on those 3 CIDP's...

So many CIDP's lurking out there in London...

Spotted this one tucked away in a London front yard. I doubt it gets much sunlight there. Owner probably didn't expect it to grow to that size. Almost 2m of trunk now.

Big one down a side road in Dagenham, east London...

 

These two were planted big a few years ago. One of only perhaps 2-3 'big' size plantings I know of around London. I would say 98-99% of our palms are planted at small sizes. These two are a very rare exception. 

They were also overtrimmed badly, suffered major transplant shock too and are still settling in now, after 3-4 years. This street view image is 11 months old now though. They probably look a bit better with slightly fuller crowns by now. 

I wonder whether there is some Dactylifera blood in the one at the front...?

 

Check out this one in the FAR northern suburbs. Quite a cold part of outer northern London. This CIDP was absolutely tiny back in 2008...

Here she is again in 2020, 12 years later... a bit yellow, but going strong still and waaaaaay bigger with trunk now...

 

Phoenix Theophrasti in the far western suburbs of London, out near Heathrow airport. Started from seed by the owner. Sadly, he cut down his 20 foot washie a few years back because it was "too close to his house" and effecting the foundations! Very sad. It would be one of the biggest washies around London by now if he didn't cut it down. This street view is from back in 2015. His Phoenix Theophrasti is doing really well now though. Definitely the biggest Phoenix Theophrasti above 40N latitude, unless anyone knows otherwise...?

\

I have probably only uploaded 10% of the bigger Phoenix palms around London on here... to put it into perspective... there are a lot more out there... getting bigger each year as well...

The Packington Estate Jubaea was also one of the other palms that was planted big a few years back in north London. It's probably still settling in as well...

 

Here's the south London Jubaea, which was planted small, but is packing on growth now...

 

Here's one of the London Butia's...

Another

Burgess Park Butia in southeast London...

There's so many Butia's around now that I'm not going to bother posting them all. I reckon Butia x Syagrus, or Jubaea x Syagrus will do pretty well in London though.

 

@Tyrone More bananas in London, although not as good as the other lot i posted...

Chamaerops, CIDP and Fortunei there as well...

All the pictures above are just from London. None of this stuff is from the south coast of England. Here are those crazy London bananas again. How do these London bananas compare to the ones growing in northern Spain @gurugu? These are a bit of a freak of nature for 51N. Bizarre for London even. I'm guessing you guys have bigger ones there due to milder winters?

 

Just 30-40 minutes south of me is Portsmouth/Southsea, which is becoming a real palm hotspot these days on the south coast of England. It's hard to believe that the Southsea CIDP's down there have gone from this in 1997...

To this now...

Southsea is going to be looking like St. Tropez in a decade or so...

Here is a Southsea Washingtonia in 2011...

And again now...

Another Portsmouth washie in a back yard

 

 

Weymouth looking HOT as well on the south coast... tons of CIDP's

 

Biggest stand of Washingtonia in the UK is almost certainly on the Isle of Wight at Ventnor. There's at least 6-7 of them at this size.

 

Some big CIDP's on the Isle of Wight as well...

 

Hopefully that cursed beetle (RPW) doesn't get a foothold over here as well. It is already in western France, causing problems, and moving further north each year. We have already had them arrive via small palm imports, but I don't think they have established anywhere, although I can't rule out RPW being present somewhere on the south coast of England already. The larvae will definitely survive the winters on the south coast and in central London, which is a concern. Our summers may be a bit too cool for them to properly establish here.

[gurugu]

Every time I watch your pictures, I have to rub my eyes. In a few years´ time, it will be difficult to know if you are in London. South coast of England, or in any Mediterranean coastline city or town, except for the "fish and chips" of course

On 8/8/2021 at 5:30 PM, UK_Palms said:

@gurugu CIDP reigns supreme across London now

Pretty much the same all along the north coast of Spain. There´re thousands of them. They are naturalized.

On 8/8/2021 at 5:30 PM, UK_Palms said:

How do these London bananas compare to the ones growing in northern Spain

Do you know what variety they are? Have you got any picture of their flower stalk?

The tallest I know of were in this old garden center. They were 5/6 mts tall. The owner told me that they were brought by monks from the Philippines a long time ago. His were, at least, 80 years old. I bought mine right there, but many people on the north coast have them planted in the ground in their country, summer houses.

I don´t know its name. Maybe Textilis? They are just ornamental, not edible and with small, black seeds inside.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4422002,-3.5232308,3a,18.7y,79.5h,92.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smoMoomzTksYB8M39FujrkQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

These other ones are very tall too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3929211,-3.3755742,3a,60y,162.21h,93.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCu1Vh7KAS9_ZKIpclNr7qw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

you can see more on the other corner of this house and opposite it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4041129,-3.4207257,3a,25.4y,154.95h,90.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sykoLQDfq-AoUV6LprAb2mg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is mine back in 2010. the fuits are not edible. 

 

More.

More

 

And more

 

The tallest ornamental ones I´ve seen, were these ones in La Orotava, Tenerife, Canary Islands. They are huge , 7/8 mts tall and very thick. Does anyone happen to know its name? I´m not sure if they are the same as the previous ones. I don´t think so.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3887366,-16.524925,3a,35.5y,84.15h,100.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svdWyOksOR0Jv7I1a90OGMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Michael36]

Great post! Was searching the internet for info about how slow syagrus are (mine seems to have ground to a halt) but found this post. Loads or great, big, palms growing around the Uk. 
my Washingtonia is growing rapidly, and big, in the ground. Not tempted to put the syagrus in the ground, as I haven’t perfected protection for plants in the ground yet. The Ensete pulled through winter fine with no protection for its first winter. I expect it will be enormous this summer. 
Even surprised me how my Rhaphis shrugged off snow a few years back, so that’s in the ground too. Just wish I had a bigger garden! 

[Foxpalms]

On 5/14/2022 at 8:06 AM, Michael36 said:

Great post! Was searching the internet for info about how slow syagrus are (mine seems to have ground to a halt) but found this post. Loads or great, big, palms growing around the Uk. 
my Washingtonia is growing rapidly, and big, in the ground. Not tempted to put the syagrus in the ground, as I haven’t perfected protection for plants in the ground yet. The Ensete pulled through winter fine with no protection for its first winter. I expect it will be enormous this summer. 
Even surprised me how my Rhaphis shrugged off snow a few years back, so that’s in the ground too. Just wish I had a bigger garden! 

What part of the world are you from and if the UK which part. Syagrus grow best in summer against a brick/concrete wall and needs lots of water but in the UK they need to not be watered in the winter or it will cause root rot 

[Michael36]

Hi, thanks, I am east London, within north circular. South facing garden. I’ll certainly water it more, I held off a bit as it wasn’t growing much. 
I’ve seen someone near me have great success with Opuntia cacti growing in their front garden, so am trying that this summer. 
 

all my other potted palms are doing well, and will end up in the ground, if I can find space, but the syagrus just isn’t moving much. 
this upcoming 2 weeks of high 20s in London may getting it moving. 
thanks. 

[Foxpalms]

On 7/8/2022 at 12:43 PM, Michael36 said:

Hi, thanks, I am east London, within north circular. South facing garden. I’ll certainly water it more, I held off a bit as it wasn’t growing much. 
I’ve seen someone near me have great success with Opuntia cacti growing in their front garden, so am trying that this summer. 
 

all my other potted palms are doing well, and will end up in the ground, if I can find space, but the syagrus just isn’t moving much. 
this upcoming 2 weeks of high 20s in London may getting it moving. 
thanks. 

When did you plant it may still be growing its roots I also water mine loads in summer everyday during warm weather and during low 20s every 3 days may also need some fertilizer. Mine has grown it's new spear 10 inches in the past week so hopefully yours is growing nicely. The prickly pear should do well all mine are growing fast and are very low maintenance.