Hybrid creation: Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1

[RJ]

21 minutes ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

This reminds me of the BxP. sunkha I used to have in UK (from Patrick Schafer). Although smaller than your example, it had the same look about it.

Yes , this is an example of BxPjs from Schafer. It will be interesting to watch the two and compare. 

[Fallen Munk]

Awesome job!  Put me on your waiting list.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 8/16/2021 at 6:57 PM, Fallen Munk said:

Awesome job!  Put me on your waiting list.

Me too I also have this cross from Patric definitely one of my prized possessions =) pics are 16months of growth from a 4x10 to a 5g which it's now pot bound =/ 

T J 

[matthedlund]

4 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Me too I also have this cross from Patric definitely one of my prized possessions =) pics are 16months of growth from a 4x10 to a 5g which it's now pot bound =/ 

T J 

Yours has a similar look to mine, although mine has is very glaucous and tomentous, almost silver looking.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

4 hours ago, matthedlund said:

Yours has a similar look to mine, although mine has is very glaucous and tomentous, almost silver looking

Yeah I can't wait to put it in the ground. My container ranch is busting at the seems haha 

T J 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Jonathan where did you learn how to do this?  Do you have any links to online resources?  

[Scott W]

I probably should've purchased one from Patrix but did not.  @Jonathan Haycock I'd love to get one once you're selling.

@Jesse PNW there's a few older threads on here documenting some of the process, many with Dr Wilcox, Dick Douglas, Tim Hopper and Erik.  This thread on the Palmpedia forum is really good as well...

http://www.palmpedia.net/forum/threads/the-making-of-a-butiagrus.2231/

 

 

 

[Jonathan Haycock]

23 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Jonathan where did you learn how to do this?  Do you have any links to online resources?  

Just by reading lots of PalmTalk threads over the years and talking to knowledgeable palm enthusiasts. The following threads have some real nuggets I seem to recall:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/4789-jubutyagrus/

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/29646-parajubaea-sunkha-pollen-processing-for-hybrids/

[NWpalms@206]

How are these doing now? Availability this spring/summer? 

[MarkbVet]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:19 PM, Jonathan Haycock said:

Thanks @climate change virginia.

Any updates on the seedlings?  Do you have some decent sized plants now?  Would love to see photo updates if you do!   Great work!

[Jonathan Haycock]

On 1/22/2022 at 6:04 PM, MarkbVet said:

Any updates on the seedlings?  Do you have some decent sized plants now?  Would love to see photo updates if you do!   Great work!

Still just seedlings pushing their second leaf although I expect growth to ramp up now we’ve moved to the Gold Coast, Queensland.

Certainly different (softer leaves) compared to pure Butia odorata and BxJ F1 I have at the same stage. 

[MarkbVet]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

Still just seedlings pushing their second leaf although I expect growth to ramp up now we’ve moved to the Gold Coast, Queensland.

Certainly different (softer leaves) compared to pure Butia odorata and BxJ F1 I have at the same stage. 

Lots of pretty baby palms!  Good luck with their growth,  hoping to see relatively fast growth compared to BxJ.  

[Jonathan Haycock]

Clear differences can be seen between the various hybrids and pure Butia. All seed came from the same “mother” Butia.

Left to right: Butia odorata, Butia odorata x Syagrus schizophylla F1, Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1, Butia odorata x Jubaea chilensis F1.

Butia odorata


Butia odorata x Syagrus schizophylla F1

Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1

Butia odorata x Jubaea chilensis F1

[Josh76]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

Clear differences can be seen between the various hybrids and pure Butia. All seed came from the same “mother” Butia.

 

All looking great, Jonathan. Are they all the same age, or is the our Butia older than the hybrids?

[Jonathan Haycock]

29 minutes ago, Josh76 said:

All looking great, Jonathan. Are they all the same age, or is the our Butia older than the hybrids?

Cheers Josh.

All hybrids were created over one summer around November 2020 to January 2021, with fruits harvested a few months later. 

I pulled the Butia seedling from the trunk of the mother and potted it up. I’d say it’s a good 12 months older than the hybrids.

[VA Jeff]

I lost two full blooded sunkhas this past spring from winter damage.  One was over 7 feet tall.  Lowest temp it probably saw was around 20F.  My BxPsunkhas had spear pull.  I think the Bxtorallyi did too, but it recovered quickly.  It grows very fast, but I get leaf spotting, probably from the coastal humidity.

[Jonathan Haycock]

These Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1‘s are really starting to motor along now, and appear to look more like Parajubaea TvT than Butia at this stage.

[RJ]

On 8/17/2022 at 8:16 PM, VA Jeff said:

I lost two full blooded sunkhas this past spring from winter damage.  One was over 7 feet tall.  Lowest temp it probably saw was around 20F.  My BxPsunkhas had spear pull.  I think the Bxtorallyi did too, but it recovered quickly.  It grows very fast, but I get leaf spotting, probably from the coastal humidity.

Were these is Virginia or Georgia? 

[VA Jeff]

 

On 11/21/2022 at 5:16 AM, RJ said:

Were these is Virginia or Georgia? 

Southeastern coastal Virginia was where the sunkhas were.  I kept trunk cutting the sunkha to avoid it rotting, but it slowly succombed over several months.  I almost lost another (Butia x Jubaea)x syagrus too, but I developed a new trunk cutting method that saved it.  If only I had tried that method with the larger sunkha, I am almost sure it would have survived.  I might post my new method one of these days.

 

For comparison, I wrapped a trunked mule palm in my yard.  It lost most of the leaves, but recovered well, although with fewer leaves than last year, now that the growing season is over.  I will probably be moving in a few months, most likely northern South Carolina.  The tender palms might fare better there.

[Brad Mondel]

Any updates on the seedlings?

[ChicagoPalma]

Interesting hybrids there are, once the palms I have get larger, I will try to experiment with new hybrids.

[psy460]

Do you remind temperature it was when you polenisated the butia ? 

[Jonathan Haycock]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:19 PM, Brad Mondel said:

Any updates on the seedlings?

All need to go in larger pots now. The 4 below have recently been repotted, 1 of which is starting to go pinnate.

[Jonathan Haycock]

23 hours ago, psy460 said:

Do you remind temperature it was when you polenisated the butia ? 

It was during summer in Adelaide so around 25-30C I would guess.

[Enar]

How do you differentiate between the male and the female infloresence? And what soil mix do you use for seedlings (PH and/or substrate/NPK content)? I'm very curious to try this myself in the future.@Jonathan Haycock 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Enar

[Jonathan Haycock]

5 hours ago, Enar said:

How do you differentiate between the male and the female infloresence? And what soil mix do you use for seedlings (PH and/or substrate/NPK content)? I'm very curious to try this myself in the future.@Jonathan Haycock 

With most cocoid palms, I’ve found the male flowers are much smaller than the females. Males also tend to be in higher concentrations towards the end of the inflorescence branches, but also higher up either side of the female flowers.

I use Searles potting mix plus perlite. https://www.bunnings.com.au/searles-65l-premium-advanced-potting-mix_p3010461?store=8451&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuvOPBhDXARIsAKzLQ8GUy64ob9O3OtU_8TP2PLrue5DI9Gz3vrQntEd-EcBpSFliynE7amoaAtYIEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds. Not sure on the chemistry of it, but it works a treat.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Jonathan Haycock

[psy460]

On parajubaea it's very easy to see : 

 

Male removed 

 

Female left, male right

 

Few female flower comparing to male

[Enar]

4 hours ago, psy460 said:

On parajubaea it's very easy to see

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

[psy460]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:24 AM, Enar said:

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

Yes i put a picture of both flower, left one is the female flower 

[Scott W]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:24 PM, Enar said:

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

Yes, the same on Butia and Syagrus as shown in the below pics.  The female flower is the more rounder part.

The part on the right has been emasculated with all the male flowers removed as well as the approximate end third removed as it's typically all male flowers

[rarepalmaddict]

I just created a Facebook group regarding palm tree  hybridation guide.

If you're experienced on how to hybridise palm trees you Can give all your advises and techniques and join the group

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/288225353888072/

 

[Leelanau Palms]

Any updates on your new hybrid babies, Jonathan? How are they coming along?

Edited December 26, 2023 by Leelanau Palms
For Jonathan

[Jonathan Haycock]

8 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Any updates on your new hybrid babies, Jonathan? How are they coming along?

These are the latest photos of the 4 largest from 22nd November 2023. They are tough cookies that’s for sure. Cope with drought, high heat and humidity, and full sun from the get go. Always look pristine. Susceptible to some scale if stressed, but pests are not an issue if they are happy. 

[Leelanau Palms]

20 minutes ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

These are the latest photos of the 4 largest from 22nd November 2023. They are tough cookies that’s for sure. Cope with drought, high heat and humidity, and full sun from the get go. Always look pristine. Susceptible to some scale if stressed, but pests are not an issue if they are happy. 

Gorgeous! So how old are they in these pictures? Are you using fertilizer?

Edited December 26, 2023 by Leelanau Palms

[Jonathan Haycock]

17 minutes ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Gorgeous! So how old are they in these pictures? Are you using fertilizer?

First seed popped July 2021, so around 2.5 years old now. Only fertiliser is what came with the commercial compost. I do dose with Seasol when I think about it. 

[tarnado]

On 8/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, Jonathan Haycock said:

I estimated well over 1000 fruits from the 2 infructescence. However only around 150 contained viable seeds. The remaining were just solid stones. 

Unfortunately the fruit was sour and stringy.

Viable seed

I have a question! Does your Butia normally have tasty fruit, but the hybrid fruit is what was sour and string?

[Jonathan Haycock]

20 hours ago, tarnado said:

I have a question! Does your Butia normally have tasty fruit, but the hybrid fruit is what was sour and string?

That particular Butia always had sour and stringy fruit. Not all Butia are created equal in that regard. Some are stringless and sweet, others stringy and sour with many variations in between. 

Although seed morphology can be influenced by the hybridisation process, I doubt fruit taste and texture would be. Fruit size of course could change. 

Edited February 1 by Jonathan Haycock

[Jonathan Haycock]

My largest Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1, and close ups of some others.

[Jonathan Haycock]

A fellow member of Pommy Palms (Gary Rethus) just posted these two pictures of his Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torally F1, acquired from me. He's located just North of Portland, South West Victoria, Australia. First picture shows it planted in January 2023, second picture is 17 months worth of growth, May 2024. Judging by the looks of things, this hybrid is going to be a looker.

[Jonathan Haycock]

Another of my Butia x Parajubaea TvT F1 hybrids growing in Forest Glen, Sunshine Coast, Australia. Judging by its development, I’d say it’s not been in the ground as long as the one in Victoria.