Coccothrinax argentata nor not?

[Tracy]

While Coccothrinax argentata is probably one of the more commonly planted of its genus here in California, they still aren't common enough for most Californians to immediately identify them in a line up.  So, I will blame my ignorance on that.  I purchased the palm in question as a 1 gallon Coccothrinax argentata and it seems to be a good consistent grower in my garden.  Reading other posts that say these are a slow grow, I thought it worthwhile to post and ask those more knowledgeable about the genus if this matches up best as C argentata or some other species.  So with that introduction, some photos:  Trunk, abaxial leaf view, looking down on plant, adaxial leaf with hastula, and the entire plant.  Does it match your experience for a plant this size, or something else?

[Looking Glass]

I can’t help with the ID, but I can say it’s a great looking one!  

[quaman58]

Tracey,

I think mine was purchase as argentata from Jungle music & it looks pretty similar. It's been a great, moderate grower for me. The leaf undersides are just awesome, especially when there's a bit of breeze, they just seem to shimmer. Yours looks great!

Bret

[PalmatierMeg]

I would be surprised if C. argentata is at all common in CA. I would guess C. barbadensis or miraguama would be the usual offerings. C. barbadensis is one the faster growing Coccos while C. argentata is extremely slow. The palm in the above photos is too stiff and rigid. C. argentata is notable for the laxness of its very dark green leaves with bright golden hastulas. I believe @NatureGirl calls the leaves "saddle shaped". C. argentata is called "silver thatch" palm because the backs of the leaves glisten with silver.

I've had a C. argentata outside my front door since 1993. It has about 4' of clear trunk and is about 6' tall. See a collage of photos below to compare with the palm in question. Notice how the fronds drape and hang and the leaflets droop. C. argentata is a very "relaxed" palm.

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2012

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2015

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2018

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2021

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, quaman58 said:

I think mine was purchase as argentata from Jungle Music & it looks pretty similar.

Yes, mine came from Phil & Jesse as well.  I have a couple of other Coccothrinax I got from them as species unknown.  I like the plant whether or not it is in fact C argentata or something related.  Since a couple  people from Florida have shared photos of older specimens that remain small, it made me wonder if mine could be C argentea if they are a little faster growing and have a similar appearance.

[aztropic]

Definitely not argentata... Here's mine to compare,grown under desert conditions. I collected the seeds for these myself, from habitat, on big pine key. Now, it's producing its own seeds! This tree is about 17 years old.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Looking Glass]

Could it be x-miraguama with those stiff leaflets?  
Even as a hybrid, still great looking.  I tend to like the miraguama hybrids as I love stiff leaflets on coccothrinax.  

Edited August 28, 2021 by Looking Glass

[howfam]

On 8/27/2021 at 1:03 AM, Tracy said:

While Coccothrinax argentata is probably one of the more commonly planted of its genus here in California, they still aren't common enough for most Californians to immediately identify them in a line up.  So, I will blame my ignorance on that.  I purchased the palm in question as a 1 gallon Coccothrinax argentata and it seems to be a good consistent grower in my garden.  Reading other posts that say these are a slow grow, I thought it worthwhile to post and ask those more knowledgeable about the genus if this matches up best as C argentata or some other species.  So with that introduction, some photos:  Trunk, abaxial leaf view, looking down on plant, adaxial leaf with hastula, and the entire plant.  Does it match your experience for a plant this size, or something else?

Tracy: I'm not an expert on coccothrinax, but whatever this palm is, it looks better than the one represented in this thread as C. argentata, with its stiff leaves and overall more robust appearance. Please let us know when you find out for sure what it is.

[quaman58]

Here’s a couple pictures of mine; definitely does not have the lax leaflets. It probably has been in the ground for seven years. unlike barbadensis, it has a completely circular leaf. Nor does it have any yellow on the petioles as the former. Whatever it is, it’s very pretty. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[ZPalms]

off topic but what is the blue tape for? Is it to keep the palm from bending?

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

 

Wow…. That’s also a real looker!  Love it. 

[Tracy]

23 hours ago, ZPalms said:

On 8/27/2021 at 6:58 PM, aztropic said:

Definitely not argentata

off topic but what is the blue tape for? Is it to keep the palm from bending?

Z Palms:  It is in a high traffic area for the dogs when they are playing doing laps around the yard.  The pup also was laying down next to it and leaning into it, so this was a way of protecting it from being trampled in the future while also providing support from past collisions that jarred it's roots.

Scott, any thoughts on which Coccothrinax either mine, Bret's or both are if definitely not C argentata? 

... and finally, Bret, if mine ends up looking like yours as it gets bigger, I will be happy!

[aztropic]

Appears to possibly be Coccothrinax macroglossa or more likely a hybrid of argentata with macroglossa or scoparia. Unless seeds come from habitat or isolated areas,chances are they probably are hybridized. Even in Cuba,I saw lots of hybrids in habitat of Coccothrinax and Copernicia species. Here's my macroglossa to compare. WAAY faster grower than argentata.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[aztropic]

Here's a hybrid I bought as a pure Coccothrinax borhidiana in 1 gallon size. Was grown from seeds picked directly off a pure borhidiana with no other known Coccothrinax flowering at the same time,but still turned out to be a hybrid. Happens all the time...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, aztropic said:

Here's a hybrid I bought as a pure Coccothrinax borhidiana in 1 gallon size.

This was acquired as a C borhidiana hybrid... mix unknown.  The entire larger trunk sprouted as a doinker off the main trunk which progressively went more parallel to the ground and was propped up one one of the rocks for a while.  It's still there behind the little basal sucker which was growing when I bought it.  The main trunk is now just shrinking in size after trying to push out it's last leaf several months ago.  

So my other one we will wait until an inflorescence and flowers pop and see someday what they most closely match. Any thoughts on Brett's plant?

[aztropic]

Can definitely see some borhidiana in those two pictures. Definitely hybrids though.Pure borhidiana has a very hairy trunk;just like crinita -the old man palm.

Bret's plant looks more like a barbadensis hybrid,or one of the miraguama types.

Funny they came from the same source,labeled the same,yet look totally different...

Here's a pic of one of my pure borhidiana trunks to compare.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[quaman58]

And I thought Pritchardias were hard to ID...

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

It looks like some kind of hybrid to me.   The Florida Silver Palm (Cocothrinax Aregentata)  have softer more ribbon like fans.   Yours may be crossed with C. Argentata, but it doesn't look like a pure silver palm to me. 

[Tracy]

On 8/30/2021 at 9:08 AM, aztropic said:

Bret's plant looks more like a barbadensis hybrid,or one of the miraguama types.

Funny they came from the same source,labeled the same,yet look totally different...

While in different lighting the leaf undersides do have some white sheen to them, there is a significant difference between Brett's plant and mine.  It seems to be a moderate grower whatever it turns out to be. 

[Phoenikakias]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:19 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

I would be surprised if C. argentata is at all common in CA. I would guess C. barbadensis or miraguama would be the usual offerings. C. barbadensis is one the faster growing Coccos while C. argentata is extremely slow. The palm in the above photos is too stiff and rigid. C. argentata is notable for the laxness of its very dark green leaves with bright golden hastulas. I believe @NatureGirl calls the leaves "saddle shaped". C. argentata is called "silver thatch" palm because the backs of the leaves glisten with silver.

I've had a C. argentata outside my front door since 1993. It has about 4' of clear trunk and is about 6' tall. See a collage of photos below to compare with the palm in question. Notice how the fronds drape and hang and the leaflets droop. C. argentata is a very "relaxed" palm.

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2012

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2015

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2018

Coccothrinax argentata, Cape Coral FL 2021

 

On 8/28/2021 at 4:58 AM, aztropic said:

Definitely not argentata... Here's mine to compare,grown under desert conditions. I collected the seeds for these myself, from habitat, on big pine key. Now, it's producing its own seeds! This tree is about 17 years old.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Ok now I am convinced, that a plant of mine bought as argentea is actually argentata lol. Perhaps the plants of our friends in SoCA are conversely C argentea lol lol

Edited August 3, 2022 by Phoenikakias

[Tracy]

22 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

 

Ok now I am convinced, that a plant of mine bought as argentea is actually argentata lol. Perhaps the plants of our friends in SoCA are conversely C argentea lol lol

I think what Bret and I have are Coccothrinax species "misidentified".

[Phoenikakias]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:55 PM, Phoenikakias said:

 

Ok now I am convinced, that a plant of mine bought as argentea is actually argentata lol. Perhaps the plants of our friends in SoCA are conversely C argentea lol lol

Et voila. I have been always wondering why leaves are so soft with droopy tips and my initial assumption was a weak plant. Now it may be just an argentata or anorher healthy sp.

[Tracy]

On 8/4/2022 at 11:51 AM, Tracy said:

Coccothrinax species "misidentified".

Still looking for a better name than Coccothrinax "misidentified" as this continues to grow.

[realarch]

Interesting thread which I totally missed. Not being a widely grown genus on this side of our island, I wasn’t aware Coccothrinax was so.easily hybridized, so thanks for all the info. 

All the great photos are appreciated as well.

Tim