Does anyone have a Butia odorata silver?

[Dartolution]

Does anyone on the forum have a mature tree of Butia odorata 'silver'?

One with exceptionally blue/silver fronds?

 

Thanks

[JLM]

Not necessarily exceptionally silver, but silver indeed (image taken a few months ago after planting)

[Joe NC]

I had a very blue little one.  It didn't make it through the last brutal winter we had.  It would have been a beautiful palm as an adult. 

[Dartolution]

Awe man @Joe NC yes it would have! That is a shame! Im sorry to hear. 

Where did you find this one? Was it HD? I seem to recall a thread about these? or HGC? 

[Scott W]

I just transplanted two from Central Florida to my house in Jacksonville...both fruiting if that's what we are considering mature.

[Joe NC]

  On 9/2/2021 at 2:20 PM, Dartolution said:

Awe man @Joe NC yes it would have! That is a shame! Im sorry to hear. 

Where did you find this one? Was it HD? I seem to recall a thread about these? or HGC? 

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I don't remember if it was HD or Lowes.   It was one of the years when they carried 100's of the blue pot "cold zone" palms.  That silver pindo stuck out like a sore thumb across the parking lot in the sea of other green ones.  I knew it had to come home with me.  haha

It seems like there used to be a lot of variation in form in the butia available at the big box stores (compact, stretched out, green, silver, purple petioles, recurved, straight), but now any that I see for sale are all very consistent in form.  Mostly green recurved frond, with purplish petioles.

[Scott W]

Yeah I grew the two I transplanted from seed, and it was so long ago I don't recall where I got the seed from.  It would be interesting to see if it self pollinated if all the offspring would be silver-blue or not.

[Dartolution]

@Scott W If you have any seed available Id gladly take a few from you to grow out. 

This form in particular is one I've been looking for. 

[Scott W]

  On 9/2/2021 at 6:02 PM, Dartolution said:

@Scott W If you have any seed available Id gladly take a few from you to grow out. 

This form in particular is one I've been looking for. 

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No seed from it this year, as I aquired these after the last bract had dropped everything.  Looked around the base but it appeared all the fruit and seed were scarfed up by wildlife.   I'll keep you in mind when it sets next year, as I plan to allow it to set a bract or two of pure seed before hybridizing.

[Dartolution]

@Scott W thanks!

[KDubU]

I have a mature blue or silver/blue. No bract this year yet as it was planted last Nov and is a mature specimen with 6’ of trunk with dimension of between 24-30” at it’s thickest.

 

 

[Jtee]

I seen some really blueish pindos in the Bonifay/Panama City area yesterday. Would be cool to gather some seeds. 

[Swolte]

Great thread, I love those blue ones! The first one I saw was at Moon Valley Nurseries a couple of years ago near Conroe and it really stood out to me. Single specimen. At the time, I didn't realize how rare they'd be to stumble upon in the trade. This was a large one and probably would have cost me a fortune (as everything there...).  

[Turtlesteve]

My most blue/silver ones are not flowering yet…

[Dartolution]

@Turtlesteve those look incredible! 

What color are the petioles and leaf bases? 

 

[Turtlesteve]

Both look about the same.  These ones have no purple.  There are lots of mature Butia here and most tend towards silver or blue/ silver.

 

[Hutch]

Butia Wooly palm..Eriospathe...is that spelled right...anyways..

[freakypalmguy]

I’ve always assumed this was capitata/odorata? It’s bluish silver. It seams to profusely flower all year. I had cut off this spathe when it was unopened? I guess I missed a bit  

[Dartolution]

@freakypalmguy thats definitively odorata. 

Around here, we seem to have either catarinensis or true capitata.

From palmpedia: "The original name Butia odorata was given to the coastal Butias in uruguay, so these BIG butias with big round seeds and fruits retained the name odorata. These were the capitata most commonly cultivated, round seeds and grey leaves. This left the Butias of the coastline of Santa catarina and north Rio grande do Sul, which formerly known as odorata are now officially catarinensis, a new species. Elongated seeds and small trunks. Therefore if you have a Butia `capitata` with round seeds its an odorata now. If you have a `capitata` with elongated seeds it could be a catarinensis or a real capitata."

 

Ours locally aren't as beefy as the odorata's south of here, instead they have moderately sized trunks, and seeds that are both elongated and round but smaller than odorata seeds. 

They could also be hybrids of both considering the seed variability. 

 

From JungleMusic:

 

 

These ULTRA blue/silver Butia's are what I am after. 

These seemingly are incredibly rare. 

 

I have a blue butia I picked up from a local nursery that regularly stocks them in our area. 

Here is is in the evening:

*Also worth noting is that mine has incredibly blue glaucous petioles and purple glaucous leaf bases which can be seen in the image*

 

And with my iPhone "Vivid" mode and flash which reveals more of the silver:

 

 

[necturus]

My Butia yatay has the most silver of any Butia I have. I'll take a picture tomorrow.

[freakypalmguy]

  On 9/5/2021 at 1:54 AM, Dartolution said:

@freakypalmguy thats definitively odorata. 

Around here, we seem to have either catarinensis or true capitata.

From palmpedia: "The original name Butia odorata was given to the coastal Butias in uruguay, so these BIG butias with big round seeds and fruits retained the name odorata. These were the capitata most commonly cultivated, round seeds and grey leaves. This left the Butias of the coastline of Santa catarina and north Rio grande do Sul, which formerly known as odorata are now officially catarinensis, a new species. Elongated seeds and small trunks. Therefore if you have a Butia `capitata` with round seeds its an odorata now. If you have a `capitata` with elongated seeds it could be a catarinensis or a real capitata."

 

Ours locally aren't as beefy as the odorata's south of here, instead they have moderately sized trunks, and seeds that are both elongated and round but smaller than odorata seeds. 

They could also be hybrids of both considering the seed variability. 

 

From JungleMusic:

 

 

These ULTRA blue/silver Butia's are what I am after. 

These seemingly are incredibly rare. 

 

I have a blue butia I picked up from a local nursery that regularly stocks them in our area. 

Here is is in the evening:

*Also worth noting is that mine has incredibly blue glaucous petioles and purple glaucous leaf bases which can be seen in the image*

 

And with my iPhone "Vivid" mode and flash which reveals more of the silver:

 

 

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Thank you for all that information dartolution, I have a lot of Butia growing here at my house, all of them look different, have different looking fruit and seeds of different sizes, so hard to tell what they all are. I have seen a few of the super blue Butia that you talk about, they were at a nursery in huge boxes, there were two of them, And I don’t remember how much they wanted but they were very expensive, too rich for my blood. I did notice a few seedlings popping up right at the base of one of them so I plucked them out and they are growing in my greenhouse now, hopefully their offspring from those plants because they were truly stunning blue, almost white.

Matt

[Turtlesteve]

A good percentage here in 8A (at least older plantings) are some shade of blue/silver. In contrast most of the ones sold at the box stores now are green.  I do not know if the box stores distributed blue or silver ones in the past, or if perhaps the blue/silver ones survived better, or some combination of the above.  They tend to have brown/silver leaf bases.  Seeds vary from perfectly round to football shaped.  They are probably more cold hardy versus the green ones.  I only have one green (purple leaf bases when small) and it almost died at 13/14F.

There are a few around here that I might call “ultra” blue/silver.  I’ll get a pic next time I drive past.  Like the pics above, there are distinct blue shades and silver shades and everything in between.  I prefer the blue ones.  I doubt they are true from seed especially if open pollinated, and I also don’t think you can call which ones will retain the color to maturity.  I have planted dozens of seedlings from my largest one, in a few years I’ll see what kind of color variation I get. 


Steve 

[Dartolution]

@Turtlesteve Same here except 8a central/south alabama. 

I believe I've read somewhere that the blue/silver are the most cold hardy. It would make sense since all of the mature butia found locally are blue or some variation thereof and have at least 6 ft of trunk. 

 

[Turtlesteve]

So my fruiting Butia are “average” coloration and nothing special.  But, I actually forgot to include a picture of my best blue.

 

[Advective]

I had a silver form of B. Odorata which would spear pull at 11/12F. This was while it was around a 7/15G size but planted in-ground.

The leaf hardiness was ridiculously good though. 9F before it would even begin to take damage.

  On 9/5/2021 at 2:17 PM, Turtlesteve said:

I only have one green (purple leaf bases when small) and it almost died at 13/14F.

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This is a good data point. I assume the spear went to die at that temperature.

Would it be fair to say the silver (and maybe blue) form's spear is about 2F hardier than the green?

[Palmfarmer]

This one that I got in a pot is turning more and more silver. Exact species of Butia I don't know. 

[WSimpson]

  On 9/5/2021 at 2:33 PM, Dartolution said:

@Turtlesteve Same here except 8a central/south alabama. 

I believe I've read somewhere that the blue/silver are the most cold hardy. It would make sense since all of the mature butia found locally are blue or some variation thereof and have at least 6 ft of trunk. 

 

Expand  

  On 9/5/2021 at 1:54 AM, Dartolution said:

@freakypalmguy thats definitively odorata. 

Around here, we seem to have either catarinensis or true capitata.

From palmpedia: "The original name Butia odorata was given to the coastal Butias in uruguay, so these BIG butias with big round seeds and fruits retained the name odorata. These were the capitata most commonly cultivated, round seeds and grey leaves. This left the Butias of the coastline of Santa catarina and north Rio grande do Sul, which formerly known as odorata are now officially catarinensis, a new species. Elongated seeds and small trunks. Therefore if you have a Butia `capitata` with round seeds its an odorata now. If you have a `capitata` with elongated seeds it could be a catarinensis or a real capitata."

 

Ours locally aren't as beefy as the odorata's south of here, instead they have moderately sized trunks, and seeds that are both elongated and round but smaller than odorata seeds. 

They could also be hybrids of both considering the seed variability. 

 

From JungleMusic:

 

 

These ULTRA blue/silver Butia's are what I am after. 

These seemingly are incredibly rare. 

 

I have a blue butia I picked up from a local nursery that regularly stocks them in our area. 

Here is is in the evening:

*Also worth noting is that mine has incredibly blue glaucous petioles and purple glaucous leaf bases which can be seen in the image*

 

And with my iPhone "Vivid" mode and flash which reveals more of the silver:

I think it's called a Butia cerifera , but it is not typically in my zone , although I am now zone 8A . I have a really  nice one in my best microclimate .  It seems slower than my Butia odorata , but it is very nice looking . I'll have a picture soon . 

Will

 

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[WSimpson]

  On 11/25/2023 at 4:36 AM, Will Simpson said:

 

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Oh crap , I was talking about my Chamaerops humilis vs the Chamaerops cerifera . Call me an amateur or an idiot , or someone who drank a little wine ? 

Sorry , I do have a nice Butia , but not the blue form . 

Will

[Dwarf Fan]

I got some seeds form a Silver Capitata but it is not super blue more blue green.

[Turtlesteve]

  On 11/24/2023 at 9:41 PM, Advective said:

I had a silver form of B. Odorata which would spear pull at 11/12F. This was while it was around a 7/15G size but planted in-ground.

The leaf hardiness was ridiculously good though. 9F before it would even begin to take damage.

This is a good data point. I assume the spear went to die at that temperature.

Would it be fair to say the silver (and maybe blue) form's spear is about 2F hardier than the green?

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After last winter I would say:

Leaf hardiness:  Blue > Silver > Green.  I would estimate on average that Blue are 2-3F more leaf hardy than green but this is all highly variable to the individual palms.  Most larger blue ones had no leaf burn at all at 12F while green and silver were fried (this was all exposed locations).

Stem / spear:  My more green leaf butia were defoliated, although the damage typically did not show up until spring.   They did not have spear rot issues, except for very small ones.  The blue and silver ones, even palms with no leaf damage, had some rot issues this spring causing loss of 2-3 leaves when they started to grow back out.

The particular Butia that I referenced earlier (the 2021 post) sailed through 12F last winter - it more or less defoliated but had no spear damage at all, and recovered quickly.

So the general trend is that the more leaf hardy (blue) specimens are also more susceptible to rot, and the less leaf hardy plants seem less likely to have rot issues.  So I believe this has been explained by others as a relationship between cold hardiness , blue leaf color, and adaptation for arid locations.  

[fr8train]

  On 11/26/2023 at 12:35 AM, Turtlesteve said:

After last winter I would say:

Leaf hardiness:  Blue > Silver > Green.  I would estimate on average that Blue are 2-3F more leaf hardy than green but this is all highly variable to the individual palms.  Most larger blue ones had no leaf burn at all at 12F while green and silver were fried (this was all exposed locations).

Stem / spear:  My more green leaf butia were defoliated, although the damage typically did not show up until spring.   They did not have spear rot issues, except for very small ones.  The blue and silver ones, even palms with no leaf damage, had some rot issues this spring causing loss of 2-3 leaves when they started to grow back out.

The particular Butia that I referenced earlier (the 2021 post) sailed through 12F last winter - it more or less defoliated but had no spear damage at all, and recovered quickly.

So the general trend is that the more leaf hardy (blue) specimens are also more susceptible to rot, and the less leaf hardy plants seem less likely to have rot issues.  So I believe this has been explained by others as a relationship between cold hardiness , blue leaf color, and adaptation for arid locations.  

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Sounds like the silver/blue form would be perfect for our climate here in San Antonio. 

[Harry’s Palms]

I have a large Butia Bonnetti , at least that"s what the tag said on the seedling tube when I bought it 20+ years ago. The grower was a reliable IPS guy but honestly I had never heard of this variety . I have posted pictures on this forum before , but I can't seem to locate them right now. It is very silvery blue with large fronds (larger than the Capitata in my neighborhood) . It started out like a typical Butia and grew much the same for about 5-6 years , but as soon as the large trunk formed , it started pushing out very nicely colored fronds . The trunk is massive and it holds its fronds for a very long time. The Butia seem to be very hardy year round and I would think they would do well in cooler climate. I live in Southern California , inland about 20 miles from the ocean and about an hour north of Los Angeles. The color is similar to Brahia Armata in that it seems to "glow" under a full moon!  Harry

[Tom in Tucson]

Butia bonetti is apparently a nomen nudum. See this thread:

Hi 78°, Lo 50°

[Harry’s Palms]

  On 11/29/2023 at 4:52 AM, Tom in Tucson said:

Butia bonetti is apparently a nomen nudum. See this thread:

Hi 78°, Lo 50°

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Thank you for that lead! I now have my answer . It does look a bit different than a Capitata . It appears much more robust on my south facing slope.  Harry

[Harry’s Palms]

I found a photo of my Butia 

[Dartolution]

@Harry’s Palms Is that Brahea next to it? Thats quite an impressive amount of blue on that Butia! Any seeds?

[Harry’s Palms]

  On 12/4/2023 at 3:08 AM, Dartolution said:

@Harry’s Palms Is that Brahea next to it? Thats quite an impressive amount of blue on that Butia! Any seeds?

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Yes , that is Brahea Armata almost the same age as the Butia . Behind the Butia is a Brahea Edulis that is about the same size as the Butia. For some reason the B.Armata is much slower , but healthy. Unfortunately , the squirrels always beat me to the seeds . I think they like the Apricot tasting fruit. I would love to get the seed from it so I could more readily identify exactly which Butia it is . You are right it is very blue-silver. It looks great under a full moon. Thank you , Harry

[fr8train]

I stopped by Huntington Gardens near Los Angeles recently and I noticed many of their Butia are very blue. I wasn't able to get any seeds though, like @Harry’s Palms mentioned, it looks like rodents get to them quickly. Same deal with Jubaea. 

I'm not sure I was there at the right time, but I was able to get some Brahea seeds. I'm not sure when Butia usually flower/seed. 

[Guy H]

@Harry’s Palms Where'd you get your Blue Butia? 

 

I'm in Ventura area and been looking for a very blue butia to buy around here 

[Harry’s Palms]

  On 1/26/2024 at 6:06 PM, Guy H said:

@Harry’s Palms Where'd you get your Blue Butia? 

 

I'm in Ventura area and been looking for a very blue butia to buy around here 

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I got it from Karl Doebler at Green Thumb in about 1998. John ( Ventura College) the guy who used to sell palm seedlings through Karl had it labeled as a “Bonetti”. When I asked Karl about it he said it was probably just a Capitata. I bought a lot of seedlings there . If I  ever get to the seeds , you are welcome to them. I am in Santa Paula. I will keep a close eye on it but it seems as soon as the inflorescence appears the squirrels are on watch!