Sabal Seed Observations

[DallasPalms]

So I stored alot of Sabal seeds from last year and I noticed some things. First I was shocked about some Palmetto seeds. I decided to experiment by separating all obviously larger or smaller seeds from the batches... the Palmetto were the most obviously changed... one container with larger and smaller fruits hardly anything different but weevils ate through the other batch of regular sized seeds and maybe left 1/3.... what I was shocked about was that the fruits in that container had obviously grown and the seeds (that survived) ripened even more.. to the point that they were larger than my batch of larger seeds...

So today in went through some Texana seeds from a tree with an enormous crown... I found the same the fruits (in a different container) other than being broken and chewed up did not change but many of the seeds expanded and caught up with my batch of larger ones some even slightly larger and more developed.  i was planning to grow to observe traits.... now im wondering...

The first and second batches of palmettos were sewn and the first pop cam from the lesser developed batch... obviously they were ripe enough but will it affect my germination rate?  (large/small vs regular which ripened more)... so I'm wondering if maybe one container was more airtight or if simply the presence of more fruits caused them to ripen further? Maybe the bugs helped?

So I'm wondering about other similar experiences and also whether or not selecting seeds for traits has been tackled... I'm theorizing that smaller or off shape seeds might make a dwarf possibly or even a freak

Also my shake method seemed to help with some batches btw. That is where I rattle the seeds to force the worms and weevils out of the seeds. I left my larger batches in larger buckets and just grew tired of shaking so I have one batch of seeds that got a lot of eaten and another that had maybe one or two more weevils pop out while in storage..  I think I could have saved a lot of seeds with another shake or two!

(The smaller containers easy to shake) I didnt realize weevils could re-enter a healthy seed... I thin this is indicated by a smaller hole with a door that turns inward. Lafs

One last thing. I collected alot of Dominguensis seeds from a city sidewalk they were all over the place! I kept them in storage and they seemed to dry alot differently... the few that had fruits were thin skinned and the friendly stuff wore them off smoothly (not as sticky as other sabal seeds) Texanas and Palmetto seeds were very wet I realize they're easy but perhaps maturing and drying can have some effect on the pop rate?

The Dominguensis popped really fast I had a few shooting roots at the end of a 5 day soak after months in storage... maybe just faster seeds? I separated 22 very small ones and 9 of them sprouted shortly after laying on wet soil...

I'm wondering if drying sabal seeds or soaking them will wear off an inhibitor maybe? Most of them had no fruits already dried just laying on a sidewalk cooking so I wonder what is best in that regards - from the experience of other seed collectors and sew-ers.

The photo is comparing the  two separated containers of 'Texana' seeds. I settled on Texan because the crown was enormous like maybe 18 feet wide. The bottom right are from the batch that ripened more which were from average sized fruits... the two above were large picks from what were originally the larger looking seeds. The shiny ones were expected to be average sized but grew in a bucket closed in with alot more fruits and bugs wh...

the six freshly defruited ones are more bubbly looking  and also those two up abover are larger than the ones at the bottom which appear larger due to the camera angle eh* just to show that the seeds can ripen to full size if left in the fruit...

Edited September 11, 2021 by DallasPalms

[DallasPalms]

I'll do my first reply in case there Is interest down the road (or observations to share)

These are stored fruits from the same batch... I'm going though them today in the search for candy  

The smallest are at around 3/8-1/2" x 3/8" tall or thick. The largest 5/8"up to 3/4" wide x 1/2" tall...

Some freak seeds in the center. Hopefully I will see variations to coincide with seed development. I will sew and label if I get variation I will update around the time of discovery

[DallasPalms]

And Oddballs. Fingers crossed :-)

[DallasPalms]

I forgot that I separated these last year as I was sewing Bermudana palms in two containers @ Big seeds vs Small. Not 100% sure which is which but there were fewer seeds that were large size...

The container with 7 seedlings has larger and wider leaves than the container with 10... so maybe it true with Bermudana. Time will tell! It could be that they started with more root space. Also I ended up with two more than I counted originally

I did the same with Chamaerops planted last fall I sewed one extra container with the exceptionally small seeds and there is one with multiple leaflets growing half as long as the others which are all shorter, in general, than the batches of large seeds I sewed. 

There is so much variation with Chamaerops in general - but maybe that's part of it. The small seeds at the end of the stalk are maybe responsible for the smaller types laff

I will update.... I do admit the chamaerops were probably a cross with a shorter type also but eh

Meanwhile here is a photo Bermudana comparison @ Large seeds vs Smaller 

I was able to keep the growth tips intact when up-potting

Edited September 13, 2021 by DallasPalms

[DallasPalms]

I will use Palmtalk for a reference. Not much interest lol just one heart vote so far but I'm sure there will be some down the road there have got to be other palm tree people with OCD, ADD and AT&T... hehe j/k I'm at home with Sprint 

I'm doing a new experiment. 19 seedlings I will mark by size @ planting out today. Largest (9) Medium(8) and two much smaller - from a small batch of seeds fallen from a really large brautiful tree @ huge canopy.

The seeds (mostly) were left in fruit for a few months. 19/24 sprouts in a few days 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by DallasPalms