Tennessee Sabal Minor Population

[Tennessee Palms]

Alright, so I'm aware of Naturalized Populations of Sabal Minor across Tennessee, however there's a specific population in Hardin County which makes absolutely no sense and I'm convinced that these are naturally occurring wild minors. I took this picture back in the spring, I'll try to get a more recent picture this week. I'm curious if there are more wild minors of this size across the state.

[teddytn]

12 hours ago, Tennessee Palms said:

Alright, so I'm aware of Naturalized Populations of Sabal Minor across Tennessee, however there's a specific population in Hardin County which makes absolutely no sense and I'm convinced that these are naturally occurring wild minors. I took this picture back in the spring, I'll try to get a more recent picture this week. I'm curious if there are more wild minors of this size across the state.

That’s awesome, would love to check those out in person. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if there were some wild populations of sabal minor further north than people think. 

[RJ]

Why do you think their wild? It doesn’t look like the type of habitat that minors would naturalize? Around here we have plenty of naturalized minors and their almost always in area that are wet at least a portion of the year … 

 

being that close to a road and a pull off to boot while in the open sun screams planted to me …

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, RJ said:

Why do you think their wild? It doesn’t look like the type of habitat that minors would naturalize? Around here we have plenty of naturalized minors and their almost always in area that are wet at least a portion of the year … 

being that close to a road and a pull off to boot while in the open sun screams planted to me …

I tend to agree.  If this helps, this appears to be the clump on Google Maps:

Tennessee Sabal Minor Population:
=================================
04/2018:

10/2016:

07/2013:

?:
01/2008:

No doubt it has been there a while, but there would have to be more around that were of flowering size.  Preferably, if some could be found that had seeds or spent infructescences.

 

 

[Tennessee Palms]

9 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I tend to agree.  If this helps, this appears to be the clump on Google Maps:

Tennessee Sabal Minor Population:
=================================
04/2018:

10/2016:

07/2013:

?:
01/2008:

No doubt it has been there a while, but there would have to be more around that were of flowering size.  Preferably, if some could be found that had seeds or spent infructescences.

 

 

I think you might be right, it's just an odd location they're pretty much forgotten. I've collected seed from them 2 years ago, now around them I'd say they dropped probably 6 billion seeds watch that spot carefully on Google maps within the next 10 years it'll get Interesting especially downhill, I've seen seedlings all over the place, I'm pretty the seedlings from them are on both sides of the road. There's a Total of 4 palms in the clump with totally random placement. That's what made me think that perhaps they came up on their own there. My Guess is that somebody sprinkled seed there 20 years ago. 

[kinzyjr]

16 hours ago, Tennessee Palms said:

I think you might be right, it's just an odd location they're pretty much forgotten. I've collected seed from them 2 years ago, now around them I'd say they dropped probably 6 billion seeds watch that spot carefully on Google maps within the next 10 years it'll get Interesting especially downhill, I've seen seedlings all over the place, I'm pretty the seedlings from them are on both sides of the road. There's a Total of 4 palms in the clump with totally random placement. That's what made me think that perhaps they came up on their own there. My Guess is that somebody sprinkled seed there 20 years ago. 

Hopefully they will continue to reproduce and naturalize in the area.  Keep up the good work growing your own as well.

[L.A.M.]

I was only mildly surprised to learn about the wild Hardin County, TN Sabal minor population last night! Even then, I wasn't surprised by them being in Tennessee, but rather in Middle or West Tennessee. I was expecting them to be in Marion, Bradley or Polk County (all of which are in East Tennessee) rather than Hardin County, but that was on the basis of their presence around Weiss Lake in Alabama and Georgia and the fact that they probably wouldn't go unnoticed in Shelby or Hamilton County. I already knew that we have nearly identical ecology, climatology and geology to parts of their native range with no obstacle to prevent their natural entry, not to mention them being native to Oklahoma and probably Virginia and close to Tennessee in four separate states (Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas).

 

I even sent an email to the USDA to give input on their oversight of the wild palmettos not only in Hardin County, TN but also Cherokee County, AL. I wasn't sure whether it was simply an oversight on their part or a lack of tangible proof. However, at least we have stronger evidence for the Weiss Lake palmettos than the Virginia ones (given news articles about the former dating back to 2008), and now we have concrete evidence for the Tennessee palmettos! It's even more remarkable that the Tennessee palmettos are in plain sight unlike the McCurtain, Virginia (if they exist) and Cherokee County/Weiss Lake palmettos, which is a rarity even in places like Arkansas and North Carolina that they're far more widespread than in OK, TN and VA.

Edited September 23, 2022 by L.A.M.

[L.A.M.]

MORE?! 😀 The street view here was taken in July 2013, and the area looks far less disturbed. It's also extremely close to the ones mentioned before. Given the leaf patterns and time of year, it's hard to see how they could be anything else, and given the location, it's hard to see how they couldn't be wild. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1435386,-88.2527338,3a,37y,51.93h,70.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5t86mFGo-DgIw8ecnR4tqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4

I really hope that someday soon, someone goes and provides formal documentation of this. They're seemingly rare along roadsides, even in places like eastern North Carolina and southern Arkansas that they're far more common; they're usually hidden away in the rainforest. I never saw any of the McCurtain palmettos in the Google street view when I looked in that area.

If true, this Tennessee population would be significant. The area was Zone 7a in 1990 and is 7b now; even the Cherokee palmettos in Alabama were 7b in both 1990 and 2012. Plus, it'd also be the first wild dwarf palmetto population north of 35 degrees north latitude outside of North Carolina (and maybe Virginia). Tennessee palmettos would be great news for environmentalists in Tennessee looking to feed birds and mammals with nutritious berries from native shrubs as well as for palm growers in the Upland South (maybe even Lower Midwest). Perhaps ecotourism could draw people, too, especially given that palms are evergreen and (again) wild roadside dwarf ones are rare anywhere.

[amh]

2 hours ago, L.A.M. said:

MORE?! 😀 The street view here was taken in July 2013, and the area looks far less disturbed. It's also extremely close to the ones mentioned before. Given the leaf patterns and time of year, it's hard to see how they could be anything else, and given the location, it's hard to see how they couldn't be wild. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1435386,-88.2527338,3a,37y,51.93h,70.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5t86mFGo-DgIw8ecnR4tqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4

I really hope that someday soon, someone goes and provides formal documentation of this. They're seemingly rare along roadsides, even in places like eastern North Carolina and southern Arkansas that they're far more common; they're usually hidden away in the rainforest. I never saw any of the McCurtain palmettos in the Google street view when I looked in that area.

If true, this Tennessee population would be significant. The area was Zone 7a in 1990 and is 7b now; even the Cherokee palmettos in Alabama were 7b in both 1990 and 2012. Plus, it'd also be the first wild dwarf palmetto population north of 35 degrees north latitude outside of North Carolina (and maybe Virginia). Tennessee palmettos would be great news for environmentalists in Tennessee looking to feed birds and mammals with nutritious berries from native shrubs as well as for palm growers in the Upland South (maybe even Lower Midwest). Perhaps ecotourism could draw people, too, especially given that palms are evergreen and (again) wild roadside dwarf ones are rare anywhere.

Sabal minor is also great for erosion control.

[L.A.M.]

1 hour ago, amh said:

Sabal minor is also great for erosion control.

That doesn't surprise me. That's great to know for sure, though! Perhaps people should start using them as natural reinforcement of their pond/lake dams, especially now that we know that they're native to parts of every southeastern and south-central state specifically rather than just much of the region overall.

[amh]

On 2/6/2023 at 4:16 PM, L.A.M. said:

That doesn't surprise me. That's great to know for sure, though! Perhaps people should start using them as natural reinforcement of their pond/lake dams, especially now that we know that they're native to parts of every southeastern and south-central state specifically rather than just much of the region overall.

The underground trunk growth really anchors this species into the ground. 

[L.A.M.]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:56 PM, amh said:

The underground trunk growth really anchors this species into the ground. 

Indeed. Dwarf palms are only "dwarf" compared to most other palms or on the surface. Underground, they hide feet of trunk. It's probably why they're native even to places that have recorded temperatures in the teens below zero on rare occasions, yet nothing else is. Needle palms probably could do it as clustering palms with a natural antifreeze, but only black bears eat their fruit, so their current range is probably a relic of what the glacial periods allowed rather than where they could sustain themselves in interglacials; I'm fully confident that they too would be able to thrive indefinitely in AR, NC, OK and TN if they were introduced or given millions of years to return.

In any case, I've decided to go see the wild dwarf palms in Hardin County on Sunday. How can I upload pictures from a mobile device to post here afterwards? I'm no tech nerd, but I want to see them for myself and bring photographic proof back home to the Upper Cumberland.

[amh]

13 hours ago, L.A.M. said:

Indeed. Dwarf palms are only "dwarf" compared to most other palms or on the surface. Underground, they hide feet of trunk. It's probably why they're native even to places that have recorded temperatures in the teens below zero on rare occasions, yet nothing else is. Needle palms probably could do it as clustering palms with a natural antifreeze, but only black bears eat their fruit, so their current range is probably a relic of what the glacial periods allowed rather than where they could sustain themselves in interglacials; I'm fully confident that they too would be able to thrive indefinitely in AR, NC, OK and TN if they were introduced or given millions of years to return.

In any case, I've decided to go see the wild dwarf palms in Hardin County on Sunday. How can I upload pictures from a mobile device to post here afterwards? I'm no tech nerd, but I want to see them for myself and bring photographic proof back home to the Upper Cumberland.

I've only used a desk top for uploading, but someone here should know how to upload from a mobile device.

[steve617]

Love to see the pics as well. I use my Android phone, take pics and hit the paperclip icon then go to files and it finds my new pics. Also thou not native they are a stand of minors in middle Tn. That was planted in 1960. I think the town is sparta or something like that. Which is impressive. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by steve617

[L.A.M.]

4 hours ago, steve617 said:

Love to see the pics as well. I use my Android phone, take pics and hit the paperclip icon then go to files and it finds my new pics. Also thou not native they are a stand of minors in middle Tn. That was planted in 1960. I think the town is sparta or something like that. Which is impressive. 

I have an iPhone. Thanks for trying to help anyways, though!

That town is Quebeck. It's in White County, of which Sparta is the largest city and county seat. There are needle palms there, too. There are also some ancient needle palms and dwarf palmettos planted in Knoxville in the 1960s, since which people have gone kind of crazy with them in the UT campus. I'm still hoping the trend catches on in the rest of the state; besides, our Southern magnolia craze started in Nashville in the 1930s, and now they're everywhere, with there even being a few escaping into the wild in places.

[steve617]

Quebeck,  thats it. I have probably 50 or more 1yr old seedlings that came from minors originated from those minors from Quebeck. I saw in passing some minors near thr knoxville convention center a couple yrs ago.

[L.A.M.]

I went yesterday. Nonetheless, I could only get one picture of an individual, not the entire group. I was afraid to get more pictures of the entire group/other individuals because someone was doing target practice behind the abandoned shop, and I didn't want to be seen and shot in a panic even though I was still technically in the road right-of-way and going to stay there.

The "palms" I saw in the jungle along the Mount Zion Cemetery Loop turned out to actually be yuccas, and it would've been nearly impossible to tell them apart just with the street view with them as small as they were in July 2013. Nonetheless, that still doesn't mean that they're certainly absent from here in the wild. I've never seen McCurtain palmettos in the street view, and they're seldom plainly visible from the road even in places like eastern North Carolina or southern Arkansas that they're far more widespread. Usually, they're hiding in the swamps or jungles, not in a grove or ditch or right by a bridge where they're less difficult to see (even though it does happen occasionally).

Now, I recently thought of a theory. Perhaps these dwarf palmettos are left over from a population that used to be far more widespread along major rivers in North Alabama like they are in northern Mississippi, with pockets spilling over into Tennessee - not unlike the Cherokee Palmettos near Weiss Lake. They've also been shown as present in some maps in Dade County, GA, which borders both Alabama and Tennessee - making a hidden Sequatchie Valley population not far-fetched either. Not to mention Whitfield County, GA, which could also be a sign that they may be in our Coosa Valley near Cleveland and Ocoee. Anyways, perhaps they used to be even more common but were flooded by Pickwick and Nickajack reservoirs plus the others in North Alabama, and those palmettos are left over due to being just downstream of Pickwick Dam.

BTW, how do I upload the photos from my iPhone? I really want to reveal them, and I'm not a tech nerd.

P.S.: This should also debunk the terrible misconceptions that Chinese windmill palms are able to regularly deal with temperatures below -14 degrees Celsius (10 degrees Fahrenheit) and are the most cold-hardy palm in the world. It's even given palms in general a bad rap in Memphis due to totalitarian local ordinances and the widespread misconceptions, even with historical evidence to the contrary in Knoxville. (Some of these old Knoxville palms even miraculously later survived the -31 degree C/-24 degree F horror in January 1985.) Generally, native palms are more reliable than non-native ones, especially in marginal areas. Plus, I saw dead CWPs at Freddy T's restaurant between the state line and the dam, in Zone 7b in a county where a different palm species is actually NATIVE. (I also went to see the Tenn-Tom while I was already close.) https://dailymemphian.com/article/393/Memphis-BBQ-chain-Tops-to-yank-out-dead-palm-trees https://palms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/v18n1p25-30.pdf

Edited February 13, 2023 by L.A.M.

[L.A.M.]

Do you know where Hornsby, Tennessee is? I just realized that along the second most important route leading out of it, there's a wooden shack with nothing in the front yard except grass, fences and. . . .dwarf palmettos that are starting to grow out of control. In a tiny town with a population of 264 people. Is that really all they planted? Or are they wild and just not killed off like everything else for some reason? Oh, and the old ones looked like they’d just flowered when the street view on Parker Street was taken in June 2023.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2258896,-88.8295951,3a,49y,144.81h,71.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHAPxWqGOfuc6ntzm2h7VjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2258896,-88.8295951,3a,25y,51.71h,82.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHAPxWqGOfuc6ntzm2h7VjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

EDIT: There are more. WAY more. Down the road! https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2266846,-88.8293948,3a,42.9y,257.42h,86.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8SQylAX0-8lc_QQzFHeA0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Edited August 31, 2023 by L.A.M.

[L.A.M.]

I just realized that I missed some across Church Street from Hornsby Elementary School. That's a third likely-wild group of them in a single area. I do think it could be reasonably argued that the Savannah population may not be wild, but it'll be very hard to disprove the Hornsby population being wild. Perhaps these are the McCurtain palmettos of Tennessee; hidden in plain sight at one edge of the state and potentially a valuable asset for those looking to find dwarf palmettos capable of dealing with record lows in the negative teens Fahrenheit and winters that more often than not fall into single digits. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2267741,-88.8305116,3a,74.1y,112.82h,70.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPFUlGOZKINv_-71CWaV_kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[RFun]

1 hour ago, L.A.M. said:

I just realized that I missed some across Church Street from Hornsby Elementary School. That's a third likely-wild group of them in a single area. I do think it could be reasonably argued that the Savannah population may not be wild, but it'll be very hard to disprove the Hornsby population being wild. Perhaps these are the McCurtain palmettos of Tennessee; hidden in plain sight at one edge of the state and potentially a valuable asset for those looking to find dwarf palmettos capable of dealing with record lows in the negative teens Fahrenheit and winters that more often than not fall into single digits. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2267741,-88.8305116,3a,74.1y,112.82h,70.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPFUlGOZKINv_-71CWaV_kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Those minors have probably been there quite a while.  Doesn't really matter if they are "native" or not.  They aren't going to hurt anything there.  I'm sure there are plants that are native to areas that people have yet to even notice.  There is a lot of land on Earth.

Edited January 20 by RFun

[Ben G.]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:45 PM, RJ said:

Why do you think their wild? It doesn’t look like the type of habitat that minors would naturalize? Around here we have plenty of naturalized minors and their almost always in area that are wet at least a portion of the year … 

 

being that close to a road and a pull off to boot while in the open sun screams planted to me …

You may well be right. I am not an expert on the most common habitat for wild sabals. When I went to see wild sabal minor in McCurtain county OK back in 2012 though, they seemed to be distributed among a variety of different habitats. Driving up and down just one rural road, I saw minors growing in creek bottom areas, higher shady areas under dense tree cover, in open fields used for grazing cattle, as well as roadside ditches and fence lines.

Again, perhaps these TN minors are in a location that is too open and close to a road to be natural. I can't say. The best evidence might be a search of nearby areas. If there are any others in the surrounding woods or fields, it wouldn't surprise me if they were wild. If there are no others in the surrounding area...seems they are likely a "human caused" planting.

[ChicagoPalma]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:06 PM, L.A.M. said:

MORE?! 😀 The street view here was taken in July 2013, and the area looks far less disturbed. It's also extremely close to the ones mentioned before. Given the leaf patterns and time of year, it's hard to see how they could be anything else, and given the location, it's hard to see how they couldn't be wild. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1435386,-88.2527338,3a,37y,51.93h,70.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5t86mFGo-DgIw8ecnR4tqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e4

I really hope that someday soon, someone goes and provides formal documentation of this. They're seemingly rare along roadsides, even in places like eastern North Carolina and southern Arkansas that they're far more common; they're usually hidden away in the rainforest. I never saw any of the McCurtain palmettos in the Google street view when I looked in that area.

If true, this Tennessee population would be significant. The area was Zone 7a in 1990 and is 7b now; even the Cherokee palmettos in Alabama were 7b in both 1990 and 2012. Plus, it'd also be the first wild dwarf palmetto population north of 35 degrees north latitude outside of North Carolina (and maybe Virginia). Tennessee palmettos would be great news for environmentalists in Tennessee looking to feed birds and mammals with nutritious berries from native shrubs as well as for palm growers in the Upland South (maybe even Lower Midwest). Perhaps ecotourism could draw people, too, especially given that palms are evergreen and (again) wild roadside dwarf ones are rare anywhere.

I've found minors in southern Illinois growing before, some even planted in random places, near kentucky border. Give me seeds and I'll plant out the whole Chicago with sabal minors, I think I'll be the growing many sabals to sell here and online. ALSO!!!! If anyone is looking for seeds of very specific palms, I got you. Msg me.

[ChicagoPalma]

Also, has anyone ever seen large sabal minors grown just to be raised so their trunk sticks out?

[L.A.M.]

17 hours ago, RFun said:

Those minors have probably been there quite a while.  Doesn't really matter if they are "native" or not.  They aren't going to hurt anything there.  I'm sure there are plants that are native to areas that people have yet to even notice.  There is a lot of land on Earth.

That's true. They are native to at least five (probably six; Virginia is disputed) of our neighboring states, and arbitrary human-drawn borders seldom matter in nature. Virtually all of the flora and fauna here is already adapted to their potential presence. It's not like they're from China or something.

[RFun]

9 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I've found minors in southern Illinois growing before, some even planted in random places, near kentucky border. Give me seeds and I'll plant out the whole Chicago with sabal minors, I think I'll be the growing many sabals to sell here and online. ALSO!!!! If anyone is looking for seeds of very specific palms, I got you. Msg me.

Not surprised to hear this.  Cold snaps are still fairly short there (although some may be quite swift).  You never know what interesting finds you'll make when you're looking.

[RFun]

9 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Also, has anyone ever seen large sabal minors grown just to be raised so their trunk sticks out?

Yes.  You can find some impressive trunks on many of them grown in places like Central Florida, for example.  In this area, it can sometimes be hard to tell if it's a Sabal minor or Sabal Palmetto.  Of course, hybridization is a theme with the minors.

Edited January 21 by RFun

[L.A.M.]

I couldn't find a single source documenting dwarf palmettos in Hardeman County, TN, and a February 2024 update of the street view in downtown Hornsby made it even clearer than it was in May 2023 that the ones in Hornsby are probably wild. I'm emailing the biology department at MTSU to see about them sending biologists for evaluation and documentation. I only thought to do this and looked into how to contact the biologists there a few days ago.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2259493,-88.8295889,3a,75y,115.27h,78.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb1KX4RYk1npI5l24rQwA8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2266643,-88.8294059,3a,75y,273.02h,80.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCTymCXuR6NvFcfGXpomafQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2265046,-88.8305807,3a,19.3y,105.36h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soBIO_VQ5v-8MVTSSHt8GdQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2267667,-88.8305149,3a,75y,106.21h,69.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssTFD27rXd7qRt1opQnHDPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2269451,-88.830468,3a,24.6y,129.49h,77.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXGSnzvkffjqoGPK-T9IcoQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[L.A.M.]

Found these at Red Clay State Historic Park in Bradley County:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9907371,-84.9466705,2a,24.9y,319.1h,76.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skeMf-lcI6D0wtypoo0Jy4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4?coh=205409&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9907485,-84.9467624,2a,47.9y,35.53h,65.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV3TYwyTWU0fi4cqLOBvwtw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4?coh=205409&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9907559,-84.9468177,2a,48.9y,329.05h,63.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soTryTch2m6DyFc44UFzKKA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4?coh=205409&entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9907384,-84.946693,2a,15y,334.57h,77.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJYdofK_nePi1OKjEXPUaLA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e4?coh=205409&entry=ttu

Unlike the ones in downtown Hornsby, these have been research-grade documented. Both populations are almost certainly wild, though. https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=45&subview=map&taxon_id=81804

Red Clay State Historic Park is in the Coosa Valley, which is also known to have them around Weiss Lake in Alabama and speculated even by the naturalists documenting the Cherokee County Ala. population to have them in Northwest Georgia between the Alabama and Tennessee portions of the Coosa Valley. For some reason, Google doesn't want to behave with these links, but they're along the northern edge of that east-west portion of the trail.

[njpalmguy]

On 2/10/2023 at 1:59 PM, L.A.M. said:

Indeed. Dwarf palms are only "dwarf" compared to most other palms or on the surface. Underground, they hide feet of trunk. It's probably why they're native even to places that have recorded temperatures in the teens below zero on rare occasions, yet nothing else is. Needle palms probably could do it as clustering palms with a natural antifreeze, but only black bears eat their fruit, so their current range is probably a relic of what the glacial periods allowed rather than where they could sustain themselves in interglacials; I'm fully confident that they too would be able to thrive indefinitely in AR, NC, OK and TN if they were introduced or given millions of years to return.

In any case, I've decided to go see the wild dwarf palms in Hardin County on Sunday. How can I upload pictures from a mobile device to post here afterwards? I'm no tech nerd, but I want to see them for myself and bring photographic proof back home to the Upper Cumberland.

needle palms also thrive in the North. I’ve seen a photo of one of them in southern nj with a really good microclimate. there’s a couple of them in Cape May if i believe, but I’m unsure. correct me if I’m wrong. sabal minors also thrive up here, they grow pretty well and I also have seen them thrive down in Palmyra, NJ. I haven’t seen one in person though, because i live in the northeastern part of the state and nobody really plants Sabal minors or any palms here 🥲