NEED HELP WITH MY SYLVESTER PALM!

[Gustavo Silva]

Hey guys, Im new to the forum I am desperate about 2 of my Sylvester palm, Find the pictures below: 

I pruned away all those infected areas that looks like 'saw dust' inside the leafs and I sprayed liquid copper to try avoid the black spots on the leaves getting worst, but it did! Since I pruned away those leaves the saw dust thing didn't come back BUT the black spots are everywhere even going to the new leaves also!! 

I have planted 5 sylvester palms, and 2 of the same side of the driveway its happening that,  the soil I used was Cow manure and Compost from Home Depot and I have the pine bark nuggets on the top to keep it moisture because that was the guy from HD told me to do, but know doing a little search through this forum I saw that these palms likes fast drained soil so I dont know if that may be causing the problem since the another 3 palms are fine.... I have used Palm fertilizers, spraying copper fungicides, pruned away most infected ones and its not getting anything better... so please with someone could help me, it would be much appreciated it!! 

PS: I will get better pictures to post here as well tomorrow morning.

Thanks, Gus 

[miamicuse]

Skeletonizer?  

Edited October 10, 2021 by miamicuse

[D Palm]

Looks to me more of a parasite infection. I would recommend drenching all of the sylvesters with a Systemic Incescticide Drench. Maybe someone can identify what exactly it is.

[PalmatierMeg]

Planting them in pure cow manure and/or compost won't do them any favors either. I wouldn't let a BB garden center employee advise me on anything to do with palms.

[Merlyn]

Compost and cow manure is probably not a good idea in Floriduh, Sylvesters and (most) palms around here like the sandy, fast draining soil.  If it was thoroughly mixed into the native soil it's probably not a major concern, but I only add compost to plantings of bananas and bamboos.  It *might* be contributing to the black spot fungus, but I don't really know.

One major cause of black spot fungus is lawn sprinklers.  Make sure that none of them are spraying on the Sylvesters.  Overspray or direct spray can cause all kinds of fungal issues, including trunk rot and leaf fungus.  I water all my palms and cycads with individual button drippers on a low pressure dripline system. 

Generally speaking a fungal black spot on fronds is more of a cosmetic concern than a danger to the palm, unless it gets into the growing point (crown) or is spreading rapidly into new leaves.  Once a leaf has a fungal infection, it's not going to turn back green.  So the best thing you can do is ID the cause, treat, and remove the frond later once it's no longer useful to the palm.  That's sort of a judgement call, because if you prune off all the fronds with black spots you might just kill the palm.  And it's easy to transfer fungus from one frond to another through your pruning tools.  So if you do prune, make sure to clean your loppers between palms.  I wipe them down with rubbing alcohol between palms.

For infected palms, I would do a "crown drench" of hydrogen peroxide and Daconil.  On a full size Sylvester this means about 8oz total.  Take regular hydrogen peroxide and add the "label strength" Daconil, mix it up and pour it down the center from above...without stabbing yourself!  If it bubbles up in the crown then you have a significant fungal infection to solve.  Do the hydrogen peroxide/Daconil drench every other week at least 3-4x, and new fronds should grow out fungus-free.

A systemic fungicide like Banrot is a good idea too, but it's expensive.  The active ingredients are Thiophanate-Methyl and Etradiazole.  You can get Thiophanate-Methyl in several other good fungicides too, like Clearys 3336, Aliette, Southern AG Thiomyl, Heritage SC, Topsin, and others. 

Here's a useful fact sheet on fungal infections: http://idtools.org/id/palms/symptoms/factsheet.php?name=Leaf+Spots+and+Leaf+Blights

[Gustavo Silva]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Compost and cow manure is probably not a good idea in Floriduh, Sylvesters and (most) palms around here like the sandy, fast draining soil.  If it was thoroughly mixed into the native soil it's probably not a major concern, but I only add compost to plantings of bananas and bamboos.  It *might* be contributing to the black spot fungus, but I don't really know.

One major cause of black spot fungus is lawn sprinklers.  Make sure that none of them are spraying on the Sylvesters.  Overspray or direct spray can cause all kinds of fungal issues, including trunk rot and leaf fungus.  I water all my palms and cycads with individual button drippers on a low pressure dripline system. 

Generally speaking a fungal black spot on fronds is more of a cosmetic concern than a danger to the palm, unless it gets into the growing point (crown) or is spreading rapidly into new leaves.  Once a leaf has a fungal infection, it's not going to turn back green.  So the best thing you can do is ID the cause, treat, and remove the frond later once it's no longer useful to the palm.  That's sort of a judgement call, because if you prune off all the fronds with black spots you might just kill the palm.  And it's easy to transfer fungus from one frond to another through your pruning tools.  So if you do prune, make sure to clean your loppers between palms.  I wipe them down with rubbing alcohol between palms.

For infected palms, I would do a "crown drench" of hydrogen peroxide and Daconil.  On a full size Sylvester this means about 8oz total.  Take regular hydrogen peroxide and add the "label strength" Daconil, mix it up and pour it down the center from above...without stabbing yourself!  If it bubbles up in the crown then you have a significant fungal infection to solve.  Do the hydrogen peroxide/Daconil drench every other week at least 3-4x, and new fronds should grow out fungus-free.

A systemic fungicide like Banrot is a good idea too, but it's expensive.  The active ingredients are Thiophanate-Methyl and Etradiazole.  You can get Thiophanate-Methyl in several other good fungicides too, like Clearys 3336, Aliette, Southern AG Thiomyl, Heritage SC, Topsin, and others. 

Here's a useful fact sheet on fungal infections: http://idtools.org/id/palms/symptoms/factsheet.php?name=Leaf+Spots+and+Leaf+Blights

Thank you for a very informative answer and the time you took of your day to help me out! here Find some pictures of the 2 palms I took these morning can you take another look to see if the fungus might be the real problem... I dont mind to spend money to get solved since I have spent a lot on stuff that didnt work... I have noticed the new leaves that are growing doesn't have the black spots just yet but on the end of each leaf looks like its getting brown already... 

Find the pictures below:

 

[Merlyn]

@Gustavo Silva in general they look okay to me, especially for ones recently planted.  Usually in the couple of weeks after planting you'll see early leaf die-off (brown tips) and more fungal problems.  This is caused by the palm "eating" the old fronds to power new root growth.  If you chop off too many of the old fronds you are actually depriving the palm of nutrition, so it's kind of a balancing act.  So the browning in pictures 4 and 5 is pretty typical of "transplant shock" and nothing to worry about as long as it's only on the oldest fronds.  If it's rapidly spreading to the newest set of open fronds (or if the new spear is brown and crispy) then there may be a serious problem.  A quick squirt of plain household hydrogen peroxide will tell you if there is a fungal problem in the crown.  If it bubbles up, that's fungus.  If it just drains in there without bubbling, then you probably don't have a crown/bud infection.

One useful nearly-free tip is to mark the new spears to see if they are growing.  Just take a sharpie and mark a horizontal line across the new spear and the adjacent fronds.  That way you know if the palm is actively growing or just sitting there.  Just be careful of the thorns, they really hurt!

FYI, the first two photos look like that palm may be planted too high.  The pine bark mulch makes it hard to tell.  Too high can stunt growth and cause "air girdling," but too low can cause rot.  You basically want the "root initiation zone" to be at ground level.  Take a look at this link for some good diagrams on palm planting depth: http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/

[Gustavo Silva]

Hi @Merlyn,

So I will buy this hydrogen peroxide to make this test and find out if its a fungal problem... if it is my best try would be banrot ? And i would drench only or spray to the leaves as well in order to avoid spreading? 

And if its not fungus... you think the black spots could be by transportation shock, I had these both palms planted about 3 months ago... and black spots started showing up about 2 months ago....

Thanks again for all the help!!

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Gustavo Silva

[D Palm]

That palm does not need mulch, but if you want some for cosmetic look I would pull it 6-12” from the trunk. Root stimulator will help the roots to start spreading and minimize the shock.

[JubaeaMan138]

That Definetly looks fungal to me . I’m dry here in so cal and all My Phoenix species at this point require very little supplemental irrigation most of there water comes from the rain In winter which isn’t much . . And they grow gang busters . I would keep that sucker dry hit it with a systemic drench like stated above and see what happens . 

[Looking Glass]

The leaf spots look fungal and I’d bet water mismanagement at some point had something to do with it.  Also early on, I noticed topical chelated iron caused spotting on some of my palms, so I avoid it now.  I think it might be the sugars in the chelated iron.  

That saw dust looks like what certain caterpillars do to my Roebelliniis here sometimes.  They are solitary and cram themselves near the emerging spears sometimes.  

Leaf Spots and Leaf Blights of Palms / UofFl has some good info….

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP142

[Merlyn]

@Gustavo Silva it is likely that it's just a common leaf spot fungus, which usually is a cosmetic problem and not dangerous to the palm.  I suggested the hydrogen peroxide (you can find it at any grocery store or pharmacy for about $2) in the crown just to make sure there's nothing rotten in the core.  It doesn't look like it from the photos, but with the time, effort and $$ you've put in to planting them, it's a quick and easy check for crown rot fungi. 

*IF* it bubbles up a lot in the crown, then a systemic like Banrot or Aliette (or similar) as a soil drench is a good way to help clean it up.  Many crown fungal infections can be cured with hydrogen peroxide + Daconil poured into the crown, roughly 4-8oz per palm.  Palms usually grow out of them.

*IF* it doesn't bubble up in the crown, then it's probably a combination of a leaf spot/leaf blight and "transplant shock."  If the new fronds are growing out clean then I wouldn't worry about it, just fertilize with a "palm special" type 4x per year and let them grow out of it.  The rule of thumb is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 fertilizer for every 100sqft of canopy.  So a 12' diameter Sylvester is about 115sqft = about 1.75lb of 8-2-12.  Sprinkle it around the trunk in about a 6-8' diameter circle and don't chuck it all at the base.  I use Home Depot Vigoro palm 8-4-8, Lowe's Sunniland Palm 6-1-8 or Lesco 13-3-13, depending on what I have and what's on sale.  Many people recommend Osmocote (expensive!) or PalmGain (somewhat expensive).

Personally I avoid all foliar spray fertilizers and fungicides.  The effectiveness on them is questionable, and you can burn the leaves if you aren't careful mixing.

[Gustavo Silva]

@Merlyn@Looking Glass @JubaeaMan138 @D Palm

Thank you everyone that answered on this post, I did the hydrogen peroxide test on the crown and did Not bubble up at the crown but when was draining did bubble on some parts of the trunk, I will be using a system fungicide just to be safe and do the crown drench as well with Daconil as stated above. I Will get some of the mulch away from the trunk as well and the only thing Im not sure about the Root estimulator since I have seen some reviews that product burned the roots.... 

I might put some slow release fertilizer to help at that difficult time, I hope they will make it!!!

Thanks again you all for all the help !