Ponytail "palm" planting depth

[miamicuse]

I recently acquired a ponytail palm, yes I know it's not a real palm, to be planted in a spot where a cluster of dypsis lutescens with Ganoderma infection once was.

The entire plant is about 10' tall and it's base where it's widest is about 18" in diameter.  I was told It was excavated from the ground by someone else before they sold their house then passed on to me, and I am unable to find out how deeply it was planted originally.

Any suggestion how deep I should plant this in the ground?

[Merlyn]

6 hours ago, miamicuse said:

Any suggestion how deep I should plant this in the ground?

Basically dig a 1" deep hole and put it in there, then backfill the huge 1" tall dirt around it.  It's incredibly difficult, I know! 

Seriously, though, they more or less sit on the surface, and will grow fine roots around the perimeter and underneath.  There should be some fine roots sticking out around the base already, it looks like that in the photo.  Just put it in the ground so that those are slightly covered by dirt, and it should be happy.  You can see the dirt line on "Cousin IT's Sister" below.  I transplanted her by rocking/rolling her onto the plywood and then driving across the backyard with my van:

[Looking Glass]

17 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Basically dig a 1" deep hole and put it in there, then backfill the huge 1" tall dirt around it.  It's incredibly difficult, I know! 

Seriously, though, they more or less sit on the surface, and will grow fine roots around the perimeter and underneath.  There should be some fine roots sticking out around the base already, it looks like that in the photo.  Just put it in the ground so that those are slightly covered by dirt, and it should be happy.  You can see the dirt line on "Cousin IT's Sister" below.  I transplanted her by rocking/rolling her onto the plywood and then driving across the backyard with my van:

No way.   These are all over the place here in various huge sizes in yards.  I always just assumed a big underground root system.  Who knew? (Probably everybody but me).  
 

I have a little one I bought as a softball with a ponytail 1.5 yrs ago.   I cut off the ponytail and it grew like 10 new growing points and the base tripled in size.  Now it just looks like a big clump of grass in a pot.  I was going to get rid of it thinking that it would need some huge pot soon.  This just convinced me to hang onto it and see what happens.   

I stole this pic off the internet of a semi-famous one somewhere around here….  Chop the top off and you get many arms.   They look great in people’s yards  

Edited November 9, 2021 by Looking Glass

[Merlyn]

@Looking Glass yeah I thought the same about the root system, until a friend offered me two of them.  I nicknamed them Cousin It, and Cousin It's Sister.  I found a video online of someone rescuing one from an underground warehouse in Floriduh.  It was in about a 36" box, and they just broke off 2 sides of the box and then dug around the underside of the base to cut the roots.  Most of the roots seem to grow from the perimeter of the base, so it's relatively easy to get a small one loose.  Cousin It's Sister probably weighed 300-500lb at the time, but was reasonably easy to rock to the side and sort of tilt-roll onto the plywood.  It also used to have one central trunk, and both of mine probably started life as one of those Lowe's/HD Ponytails with the cut-and-sealed top.  Here's Cousin IT when I got it from a friend in April 2018, we used his tractor to put it in his horse trailer:

And here it is today, about 2.5 years later.  It's now around 12' tall and has a base about 6' across.  I really need to pick up all the old leaves...

[miamicuse]

So it can be planted so shallow, you are not worried it might tip over from the wind?  Guess it's so heavy at the base that won't be an issue?

It's interesting to have multiple trunks, but I guess my single stem one it's too late to do something about it.  Is that what's required is to cut the stem when it's young to get it to grow multiple stems?

[miamicuse]

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I am thinking about putting this into a hole where a palm infected with the Ganoderma fungus met it's fate and I had to remove it.

I have since used a stump grinder to grind about 4" down and chew everything up.  Removed the chewed up palm mulch and discarded it. then I put in a few inches or soil.

If I then put this plant in the same hole, is it a good idea?  I was leaning towards it last week because I can never plant another palm in that same spot (the fungus is still there in the soil), but now I am thinking, if I plant this over it, the remaining palm root system will eventually rot out and become soft and spongy over time, and then this heavy plant will lose stability, it will be like putting a bowling ball on a bowl of jello, right?  Or am I overthinking this?

[JubaeaMan138]

Out here we plant those guys in big flat saucer clay pots and they get big . I dug several with my dad over the years and before he passed away very little root system . And always do great transplanting 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, miamicuse said:

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I am thinking about putting this into a hole where a palm infected with the Ganoderma fungus met it's fate and I had to remove it.  I have since used a stump grinder to grind about 4" down and chew everything up.  Removed the chewed up palm mulch and discarded it. then I put in a few inches or soil.

If I then put this plant in the same hole, is it a good idea?  I was leaning towards it last week because I can never plant another palm in that same spot (the fungus is still there in the soil), but now I am thinking, if I plant this over it, the remaining palm root system will eventually rot out and become soft and spongy over time, and then this heavy plant will lose stability, it will be like putting a bowling ball on a bowl of jello, right?  Or am I overthinking this?

I don't know if Ganoderma affects ponytails.  I'd guess not, but I really don't have a clue.  For putting it in the same hole, I'd think that you could do so easily.  Keep in mind that the base will expand over time to easily 6' diameter.  There's one at Fairchild that is about 15' diameter at the base!  The nice thing is that they are very easy to transplant, so if you get it a bit too close to the pump system you could move it later.  One way to make sure it doesn't "sink into the hole" is to put some sand/gravel/perlite mix to fill in on top of the old Lutescens stump instead of "topsoil" that will decompose over time.  It'll also add a layer of separation between the old root system and your ponytail.  The sandy mix will make it easy to dig up and move...IF you have to do something in a couple of years. 

When I planted Cousin IT, I basically stuck it on top of the ground and then tossed a bunch of native sandy soil around it.  That made it slightly higher than the surrounding soil.  Since it's a succulent it is better off not being in a wet area anyway, so being planted a couple of inches high is a good idea.  You could do that with yours too, by just putting it on top of your old stump area and then backfilling around it with sandy mix. 

Regarding the wind, most of the weight is down at the base.  I'd be surprised if you could knock one over that's rooted in.  Yours could be more tippy than mine, since it's tall and thin.  But once it is rooted, I doubt you'd have any issues unless you got a Cat5 hurricane. 

I wouldn't cut yours unless you really want a multitrunk type.  It would be easier to buy a $30 cut one at HD and grow that into a new multitrunk type.

[miamicuse]

13 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I don't know if Ganoderma affects ponytails.  I'd guess not, but I really don't have a clue.  For putting it in the same hole, I'd think that you could do so easily.  Keep in mind that the base will expand over time to easily 6' diameter.  There's one at Fairchild that is about 15' diameter at the base!  The nice thing is that they are very easy to transplant, so if you get it a bit too close to the pump system you could move it later.  One way to make sure it doesn't "sink into the hole" is to put some sand/gravel/perlite mix to fill in on top of the old Lutescens stump instead of "topsoil" that will decompose over time.  It'll also add a layer of separation between the old root system and your ponytail.  The sandy mix will make it easy to dig up and move...IF you have to do something in a couple of years. 

When I planted Cousin IT, I basically stuck it on top of the ground and then tossed a bunch of native sandy soil around it.  That made it slightly higher than the surrounding soil.  Since it's a succulent it is better off not being in a wet area anyway, so being planted a couple of inches high is a good idea.  You could do that with yours too, by just putting it on top of your old stump area and then backfilling around it with sandy mix. 

Regarding the wind, most of the weight is down at the base.  I'd be surprised if you could knock one over that's rooted in.  Yours could be more tippy than mine, since it's tall and thin.  But once it is rooted, I doubt you'd have any issues unless you got a Cat5 hurricane. 

I wouldn't cut yours unless you really want a multitrunk type.  It would be easier to buy a $30 cut one at HD and grow that into a new multitrunk type.

How long do you think it will grow it's base to 6' in diameter?  I am not planting it in the large Lutescens hole next to the pool mechanicals, but in another area.  Here is a picture below showing three spots I am considering.  "1" and "2" are full sun, and "3" is partial sun.  The only thing is, the width of that space is bounded by a concrete deck on the left and a wood fence on the right, and it's 5' total.  If this plant will grow to 6' in diameter quickly then it's not the right spot for it.

 

[Looking Glass]

50 minutes ago, miamicuse said:

How long do you think it will grow it's base to 6' in diameter?  I am not planting it in the large Lutescens hole next to the pool mechanicals, but in another area.  Here is a picture below showing three spots I am considering.  "1" and "2" are full sun, and "3" is partial sun.  The only thing is, the width of that space is bounded by a concrete deck on the left and a wood fence on the right, and it's 5' total.  If this plant will grow to 6' in diameter quickly then it's not the right spot for it.

 

When it gets too big, just get a crowbar and a friend, tip it on its side, roll it into the middle of the neighbors front yard, stand upright, then….
deny, deny, deny.  

Works best if they are snowbirds.  When they get back, say, “Man that thing came up fast!”   
 

….I don’t think they grow too fast though.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by Looking Glass

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, miamicuse said:

How long do you think it will grow it's base to 6' in diameter?  I am not planting it in the large Lutescens hole next to the pool mechanicals, but in another area.  Here is a picture below showing three spots I am considering.  "1" and "2" are full sun, and "3" is partial sun.  The only thing is, the width of that space is bounded by a concrete deck on the left and a wood fence on the right, and it's 5' total.  If this plant will grow to 6' in diameter quickly then it's not the right spot for it.

My big one more or less doubled in diameter in 2.5 years.  If yours grows at the same rate, then maybe it'll get too big in 3-5 years?  That's only a SWAG (Stupid Wild-Ass Guess), so take that with the due lack of respect it deserves.    With a 6' base it'll take 2 fairly strong people to tilt/roll it around somewhere new.  So if you might change your mind in 5 years and move it, just realize that you could tilt it out and put it on a sheet of plywood and drag it somewhere else.  In that respect, spot 1 would be relatively easy to drag to the front yard...and spot 2 or 3 would be easier to drag it somewhere in the backyard. 

I used to overthink all of my plantings.  Now I only overthink the stuff that might die if I move it, like Sabals or Copernicia.  Most other things are fairly quick decisions, because I know if I change my mind in 6 months I can dig them up and move them, with only a little "transplant shock."  Your ponytail is one of those, so if you change your mind next summer...no big deal!

[miamicuse]

11 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

My big one more or less doubled in diameter in 2.5 years.  If yours grows at the same rate, then maybe it'll get too big in 3-5 years?  That's only a SWAG (Stupid Wild-Ass Guess), so take that with the due lack of respect it deserves.    With a 6' base it'll take 2 fairly strong people to tilt/roll it around somewhere new.  So if you might change your mind in 5 years and move it, just realize that you could tilt it out and put it on a sheet of plywood and drag it somewhere else.  In that respect, spot 1 would be relatively easy to drag to the front yard...and spot 2 or 3 would be easier to drag it somewhere in the backyard. 

I used to overthink all of my plantings.  Now I only overthink the stuff that might die if I move it, like Sabals or Copernicia.  Most other things are fairly quick decisions, because I know if I change my mind in 6 months I can dig them up and move them, with only a little "transplant shock."  Your ponytail is one of those, so if you change your mind next summer...no big deal!

Thank you.  I have much to contemplate.  I think the problem I may have is this is not the only plant going into those spots.  So once I planted stuff in that area, there may not be a place to tilt and roll it to if I want to move it later, unless those plantings are removed as well to make a path LOL.

[miamicuse]

I did it, went into the ground today, only 1 to 2 inches deep.  If it gets too big one day, I'll worry about it then.

Soil is quite sandy, but I may dig down another few inches around it all the way to 4' radius then fill with river rocks or pebbles.  Should help water drainage.

[Merlyn]

Looks good to me!  As long as the soil around the base drains quick and doesn't get mucky, it should be happy there.  

[miamicuse]

I noticed a crack near the base.  It's not soft or mushy but hard and dry.

Is this normal?  Part of growing or something wrong going on?

Edited April 24, 2022 by miamicuse

[Merlyn]

To me that looks normal, it's the way all those other cracks grew.  The base expands and pops cracks in the perimeter.  As long as it's firm and ages over grey then it's totally normal.  They are pretty good at healing wounds to the caudex, "Cousin It's Sister" got a chunk of tree dropped on it that caused a big gouge in the side.  It took a year to fully heal, but it seems to have survived a big honkin' wound.