Butia x Parajubaea variants PNW

[NWpalms@206]

Wondering of which of these may prove to be hardiest to PNW, any info, opinions and pictures always appreciated… Ordered butia x parajubaea Torallyi… any out there? 

BxPJT

BxPJsunkha 

BxPJcocoides 

 

 

[BeyondTheGarden]

That's a hundred dollar question.  Or more than that I guess, BxPJT was the most expensive hybrid on Patrix's list if I remember right.  I don't think there has been enough experimenting with Parajubaeas (or their hybrids) up here.   I just know they're at a disadvantage all winter with how wet it stays... for over half the year.   There's not a wealth of info on Parajubaeas to begin with, and the few sources that you can find will disagree about which species is the most cold-tolerant.  Not that "cold tolerant" necessarily means "PNW tolerant".  

[NWpalms@206]

Right, it was. Which I’m not sure why it was significantly more than any on the list, maybe just the most vigorous/largest or better balance of traits, hardest to hybridize, or what. It is limited and somewhat inconsistent information. It seems like the general consensus is that the the Torallyi and the Sunkha are the hardier of the two but looks like the cocoides hybrid may have been the first created? Moisture may be the issue with these ones but with some overhead cover until 10ft or so maybe can acclimate and survive. I have a good spot with overhead canopy but still nearly all day sun and well draining slightly sloped grade. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

I assumed it's either hardest to hybridize or simply the rarest.  Parajubaeas themselves are rare.   

I don't know how much of a difference it makes but a lot of people swear that living on a slope or on high ground also makes a good difference as cold air is supposed to flow downward and not accumulate.  It makes sense but IDK to what degree.  I'd have to see some quantifiable data, measured over time, to say that it makes a substantial difference.   

What I can say is that living under these doug firs, and about 6' higher in elevation than my neighbors 100 meters away, I routinely see frost on the neighbors' roofs, while it's in the upper thirties and frost free at my place.  I count on my doug firs overhead for some of my marginal palms, and some of my smaller marginals are up against the house with localized overhead pro.   Also I'm like you, I'm hoping that I can just get them to a mature size and then they'll be more robust and self-stable and able to recover from winter damage.    Some day I'll figure out some kind of "umbrella" to put over the palms when they get larger.  

[Collectorpalms]

BxPJT Seems to work in summer in Texas, which is normally more the concern ( heat and humidity). At least can take 19F briefly.

[BeyondTheGarden]

What part of texas though?  E TX is totally different from west. 

[Trustandi]

Here is my Patrick's BxPJS.  

[Collectorpalms]

2 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

What part of texas though?  E TX is totally different from west. 

Huuuumid 8b/9a closest to Houston. E/SE  June though September. Lows 77-80 highs 95-105, dewpoints 75-80.

2021 Was first summer I do not recall hitting 100, but the humidity was the highest I recall. SO its still feeels like 105-110 in the afternoon and around 85 at night.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[NWpalms@206]

34 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

Here is my Patrick's BxPJS.  

Very nice, how’s the growth rate on that,  Did you get it as a liner? 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Yeah I've spent some time down around Houston, Orange, Beaumont, Galveston, Port Arthur, over on into Lake Charles.  That was before I was into palms.  I've also been to W Texas a few times.  Just never spent any time in central Tx.  

[Collectorpalms]

Just now, NWpalms@206 said:

Very nice, how’s the growth rate on that,  Did you get it as a liner? 

I cannot tell much difference in that and BxPS, but that one did not like it here.

[Collectorpalms]

5 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Yeah I've spent some time down around Houston, Orange, Beaumont, Galveston, Port Arthur, over on into Lake Charles.  That was before I was into palms.  I've also been to W Texas a few times.  Just never spent any time in central Tx.  

Locally in east central texas. it can be a challege as it can occassionally be a drought like west texas, or it can be a flood. Its hard on finding plants that can tolerate both. Do I want my yard to look like San Antonio or Houston? It changes. there is no real theme here.

I am ready to leave, thought I wanted to live near Bellingham and grow Conifers this year. THen the heat wave and floods there...

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Paradise Found]

5 hours ago, Trustandi said:

Here is my Patrick's BxPJS.  

Looking good there Trustandi, I think Sunkha will be the best hybrid for the PNW with its higher native elevation.

[BeyondTheGarden]

I wish I could remember the source but I read somewhere that Sunkha does better in both colder, and wetter conditions.  And then there's this snippet from Palmpedia:

This species of Parajubaea appears to be one of the hardiest and least problematic in southern California, where frequently Parajubaea cocoides rots or sputters unexpectedly and Parajubaea a bit less often. 

Which would lead one to believe that Sunkha is more tolerant of moisture.  But, California is a lot drier than the PNW, so just because it's true down there, doesn't mean it's true up here.  But I know that at one point when I was researching Parajubaeas, and Hybrids, I was hoping to find a Sunkha/Butia hybrid.  Which I never did.  

[Collectorpalms]

Edit my BxPT did better in my climate than BxPS. But looks similar to BxPS picture above. Still in pots. But 
had a BxPC for many years in ground, but it eventually declined. A crown rot issue I believe that effects my butia in general in summer tropical late evening rains. Combination of high ph soil that Houston eastward does not have.

High PH soil does keep butia limited in central Texas. Except those within the black prairie soil band that is east of 35 and runs from Austin to Dallas. Filifera love that soil, so was saddened to see some of the fattest ones go into decline this summer.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[RJ]

Alberto from Brazil claims the sunkah is the hardiest of them. So one would assume bxpjs  is the hardier of the two… 

 

I have both and will be putting them in the ground next year. I have BxPjm as well but I’m not convinced mine was a successful cross. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by RJ

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Here is my BxPJT from Patric , will go in the ground come spring. 

[Chester B]

I've heard of Torallyi in both Seattle and BC.  The BC ones eventually succumbed. 

Cocoides is too tender for PNW, they can't handle our winters.

Not heard of anyone trying sunkha yet.

 

20 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I don't know how much of a difference it makes but a lot of people swear that living on a slope or on high ground also makes a good difference as cold air is supposed to flow downward and not accumulate.  It makes sense but IDK to what degree. 

Huge difference, I see it all the time at my place.  My yard will be frost free and the streets below me will have not only frost but frozen puddles of water.  I would say their roof tops are below the grade of my yard.  I'm on a medium slope.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Chester B

[NWpalms@206]

13 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I wish I could remember the source but I read somewhere that Sunkha does better in both colder, and wetter conditions.  And then there's this snippet from Palmpedia:

This species of Parajubaea appears to be one of the hardiest and least problematic in southern California, where frequently Parajubaea cocoides rots or sputters unexpectedly and Parajubaea a bit less often. 

Which would lead one to believe that Sunkha is more tolerant of moisture.  But, California is a lot drier than the PNW, so just because it's true down there, doesn't mean it's true up here.  But I know that at one point when I was researching Parajubaeas, and Hybrids, I was hoping to find a Sunkha/Butia hybrid.  Which I never did.  

Butia/Paraj sunkha is on patricks list i recieved maybe a week ago... had to choose torallyi, cocoides, or sunkha. I went Butia/totallyi but kinda wish i done a Sunkha also. Ill probably put in another order here in the next few weeks and include that one. If it is in fact available.... Jubaea x butia yatay was on list but not available when i asked, so got 2 butia yatay x jub instead. Wanted one of each for comparisons but thats ok.  Grateful to have gotten ahold of patrick and order placed within just a couple days. So im happy.

[Trustandi]

@NWpalms@206 i got it slightly bigger size 4x10 in 2020. I planted it in the ground in Spring '21. It opened 3 new fronds.  

I also have a much smaller size from a strap into this in 2 years. 

@Paradise Found Thank you.

This year will be test for it since we have a full effect of la niña winter. 

[Paradise Found]

Those are two excellent choices!!!  Your welcome. 

[NWpalms@206]

2 hours ago, Trustandi said:

@NWpalms@206 i got it slightly bigger size 4x10 in 2020. I planted it in the ground in Spring '21. It opened 3 new fronds.  

I also have a much smaller size from a strap into this in 2 years. 

@Paradise Found Thank you.

This year will be test for it since we have a full effect of la niña winter. 

Very nice, and you got a Jubaea x queen! That’s the one I’m lookin for now. He’s not doin those anymore. I know the answer but gotta ask…! You wouldn’t happen to willing to sell that one would ya!? Name your price lol. At this point I think my only hope is finding someone with one who’s not too attached to it and pay a premium for it. Worth a shot! No worries.

[Meangreen94z]

My experience with Patric is never assume anything. I would check back occasionally and also follow the board to see what members are saying. His inventory and what he has waiting in the shadows changes by the hour.

[NWpalms@206]

43 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

My experience with Patric is never assume anything. I would check back occasionally and also follow the board to see what members are saying. His inventory and what he has waiting in the shadows changes by the hour.

That’s good to know. He did say he “lost access to jubaea” but that could and hopefully will change. I’m gonna try and get one more order before end of the year. Maybe 2 butia/sunkha, another butia/ torallyi and another butia/jubaea/syagrus while he has em. I’ve got 3 acres of good sun and good draining, rich soil, so I am filling it with Patrick’s (and others) Palms seeing what does well. I may lose some but if I plant 40/50 and end up even with 25 that genetically can cope with my climate then that’s a win. After a few years I can sit and sip a cocktail under my palms in the summer. And I want to help increase the data on these hybrids for all to benefit. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by NWpalms@206

[Meangreen94z]

6 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

That’s good to know. He did say he “lost access to jubaea” but that could and hopefully will change. I’m gonna try and get one more order before end of the year. Maybe 2 butia/sunkha, another butia/ torallyi and another butia/jubaea/syagrus while he has em. I’ve got 3 acres of good sun and good draining, rich soil, so I am filling it with Patrick’s (and others) Palms seeing what does well. I may lose some but if I plant 40/50 and end up even with 25 that genetically can cope with my climate then that’s a win. After a few years I can sit and sip a cocktail under my palms in the summer. And I want to help increase the data on these hybrids for all to benefit. 

What he grows and does for the palm community is amazing, but his responses change day to day. From none available, to oh wait I have 3. That’s just how he is. Probably a bit overwhelmed, and I bet he gets a number of emailers that waste his time. I’ve come to expect and enjoy my conversations with him.

[BeyondTheGarden]

5 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

That’s good to know. He did say he “lost access to jubaea” but that could and hopefully will change. I’m gonna try and get one more order before end of the year. Maybe 2 butia/sunkha, another butia/ torallyi and another butia/jubaea/syagrus while he has em. I’ve got 3 acres of good sun and good draining, rich soil, so I am filling it with Patrick’s (and others) Palms seeing what does well. I may lose some but if I plant 40/50 and end up even with 25 that genetically can cope with my climate then that’s a win. After a few years I can sit and sip a cocktail under my palms in the summer. And I want to help increase the data on these hybrids for all to benefit. 

Good luck getting 40 of Patrix's hybrids.  From my experience, and a few others, he only sells them a few at a time.  I assume inventory is limited (I understand that there is an overwhelming attrition rate in hybridizing palms like this) and he can't let them all go at once.  I wouldn't either if I was him.  I wouldn't want my legacy demolished because I sold all my inventory to some guy in Texas right before Palmageddon.  I'm grateful that Patric was willing to sell me some of his palms, and I hope to God I don't lose a single one.  

[BeyondTheGarden]

14 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Butia/Paraj sunkha is on patricks list i recieved maybe a week ago... had to choose torallyi, cocoides, or sunkha. I went Butia/totallyi but kinda wish i done a Sunkha also. Ill probably put in another order here in the next few weeks and include that one. If it is in fact available.... Jubaea x butia yatay was on list but not available when i asked, so got 2 butia yatay x jub instead. Wanted one of each for comparisons but thats ok.  Grateful to have gotten ahold of patrick and order placed within just a couple days. So im happy.

Can you post his newest list?  I don't recall sunkha being on the list I had a couple months ago. 

[NWpalms@206]

5 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Good luck getting 40 of Patrix's hybrids.  From my experience, and a few others, he only sells them a few at a time.  I assume inventory is limited (I understand that there is an overwhelming attrition rate in hybridizing palms like this) and he can't let them all go at once.  I wouldn't either if I was him.  I wouldn't want my legacy demolished because I sold all my inventory to some guy in Texas right before Palmageddon.  I'm grateful that Patric was willing to sell me some of his palms, and I hope to God I don't lose a single one.  

 Oh I definitely didn’t mean 40 of Patrick’s only! I just mean overall, over the last year I’ve got about 30 already of all types, fortunei, chamaerops, Takil, waggie, Pure butia, 36” box pure jubaea picking up in a couple weeks from local guy named Bryan with a pretty impressive nursury. Also going to see Dave Alverez next week he’s 30 min from me. Have frank and Elaines super, Wekivas Xbutiagrus. Like to show support to everyone and if only ever see 4 or 6 of patricks I’ll be content. Very grateful for his. I’m sure he overwhelmed constantly with requests a lot of which waste his time. I feel confident I did not. have 4 on the way and he said I could ask about larger sizes as well. So I did! Nothing but appreciation for all in this community including others like yourself who contribute to the wealth of knowledge. If I had 40 Patrick palms I’d feel greedy! 

[NWpalms@206]

5 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Can you post his newest list?  I don't recall sunkha being on the list I had a couple months ago. 

 

[NWpalms@206]

2 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

 

 

he told me that the jubaea x butia yatay is not available, at least in liner I asked about larger. 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by NWpalms@206

[necturus]

One of my JxS was a "nope, out for the season" then a few days later "actually wait I have one." 

Think I've shared on here before that he said he thought BxPJC was fastest, whereas my experience in Houston is BxPJT is fastest. From my observations on here, it seems some of these will sit for a while before they really take off in certain climates.