Queen palm frond collapse

[JLM]

I had a frond collapse on my bigger queen in the front yard the other day. All of the lower fronds except for one of them have done this before getting killed off, but this one is different. It still has a lot of green. The collapse point is brown/bronze type color, and where it is split there looked to be black on the inside. All lower fronds have been doing this as they die off over the summer. The new growth is about as deep green as deep green can get though. I dont want to cut the frond off as there is still a lot of green as already mentioned. Pics will come tomorrow.

[floridaPalmMan]

Not sure if you recall, but you helped me with this issue back in March. 

One of my queens fronds just randomly collapsed and was very brown at the collapse point.

She wispy brownish and weak looking new growth appeared and then spear pulled after a gentle tug.

I basically threw some palmgain down but what I think really fixed things was the h202.

Heres the old thread. The consensus was probably bacterial infection 

 

[cbmnz]

My one has just seen the second newest frond collapse after 10 years of trouble free growth. Reading some older threads there is a possibility this can be caused by a period of colder weather the previous winter. I guess that's possible, had a week of -1 to-3C lows this past winter (it's summer down under now) but the daytime highs were a decent 14C each day that week. They grow like weeds here as it only ever dips below freezing overnight and most diseases absent. It's otherwise looking healthy so guess nothing to do but leave it to it for now.

[sipalms]

52 minutes ago, cbmnz said:

My one has just seen the second newest frond collapse after 10 years of trouble free growth. Reading some older threads there is a possibility this can be caused by a period of colder weather the previous winter. I guess that's possible, had a week of -1 to-3C lows this past winter (it's summer down under now) but the daytime highs were a decent 14C each day that week. They grow like weeds here as it only ever dips below freezing overnight and most diseases absent. It's otherwise looking healthy so guess nothing to do but leave it to it for now.

If you can, get up there and check for red spider mites. I have had one of my Queens have a major infestation coming out of winter, two years in a row. I'm talking hundreds of them screaming out when I poured hydrogen peroxide / insecticide down there.

This particular one is coming out of a frond collapse from October, it's just pushing out another slightly damaged frond now, but should be looking good again by the end of summer.

[JLM]

Ill take a look back over that thread, however all of the new growth is so green that i cant even find any discoloration, which would lead me to believe that it wont spear pull (and its still growing with our strangely warm December temps). I forgot to get pics the past two days, i have had finals. It'll be storming tomorrow but i will see if i can find a dry time to go out and take some pics. 

[cbmnz]

7 hours ago, sipalms said:

If you can, get up there and check for red spider mites. I have had one of my Queens have a major infestation coming out of winter, two years in a row. I'm talking hundreds of them screaming out when I poured hydrogen peroxide / insecticide down there.

This particular one is coming out of a frond collapse from October, it's just pushing out another slightly damaged frond now, but should be looking good again by the end of summer.

Thanks. It's a good 6-7m to the base of the crown now, but perhaps I'll carefully go to the top of my step ladder tomprrow to see if can see anything from there. The new frond pushing out looks solid/fine from what I can see from the ground. Did get 50mm rain over 3 days which would have made the frond heavy and been the final trigger.

[cbmnz]

8 hours ago, sipalms said:

If you can, get up there and check for red spider mites. I have had one of my Queens have a major infestation coming out of winter, two years in a row. I'm talking hundreds of them screaming out when I poured hydrogen peroxide / insecticide down there.

This particular one is coming out of a frond collapse from October, it's just pushing out another slightly damaged frond now, but should be looking good again by the end of summer.

Hope yours recovers fully.

[cbmnz]

4 hours ago, JLM said:

Ill take a look back over that thread, however all of the new growth is so green that i cant even find any discoloration, which would lead me to believe that it wont spear pull (and its still growing with our strangely warm December temps). I forgot to get pics the past two days, i have had finals. It'll be storming tomorrow but i will see if i can find a dry time to go out and take some pics. 

Sorry to hijack your thread a bit. Sounds like the frond that collapsed on your one is a few fronds older than newest but still too new to be at the end of its life on the palm. 

[Merlyn]

@JLM any photos of your palm? 

There's a hotel not too far from me that keeps losing queens, a couple per year.  They look similar to @cbmnz's photo.  My guess is a Phytophthora infection that's being spread by the tree trimmers.  The palm has a full set of nice looking fronds, then the spears start coming out really slow and collapse over to the side.  Once that starts happening the spears stop growing over the next 2-4 months, and the palm dies.  As far as I can tell this hotel is not attempting to treat anything, they just pay to cut down the palms one after another.  Looking at the Google street view they've probably lost 6 out of 7 queens in one cluster and 5 out out of 5 in the other cluster.  All were 15' or so when planted and 25' when they started dying.  H2O2 and a systemic fungicide seems like a good preventative measure, and maybe a systemic insecticide if the crown is too far up to reach.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP144

[JLM]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@JLM any photos of your palm? 

There's a hotel not too far from me that keeps losing queens, a couple per year.  They look similar to @cbmnz's photo.  My guess is a Phytophthora infection that's being spread by the tree trimmers.  The palm has a full set of nice looking fronds, then the spears start coming out really slow and collapse over to the side.  Once that starts happening the spears stop growing over the next 2-4 months, and the palm dies.  As far as I can tell this hotel is not attempting to treat anything, they just pay to cut down the palms one after another.  Looking at the Google street view they've probably lost 6 out of 7 queens in one cluster and 5 out out of 5 in the other cluster.  All were 15' or so when planted and 25' when they started dying.  H2O2 and a systemic fungicide seems like a good preventative measure, and maybe a systemic insecticide if the crown is too far up to reach.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP144

About to go do that in a few minutes since it stopped raining.
 

 

8 hours ago, cbmnz said:

Sorry to hijack your thread a bit. Sounds like the frond that collapsed on your one is a few fronds older than newest but still too new to be at the end of its life on the palm. 

Its alright! Its better than making another thread for the same general problem imo

[JLM]

These are in no particular order.

[Merlyn]

@JLM honestly I don't know why the fronds split like that.  Fortunately it doesn't look anything like Fusarium, and might just be weakened from gusty windstorms.  I have a couple just-trunking queens that do the same thing.  Most of the fronds turn brown and droop before the petiole snaps or folds over, but that occasionally happens. 

I suppose it could have some kind of petiole blight that just somewhat weakens the petiole fibers.  But mine kind of look like that too when they get older.  The outer edges of the petiole start turning brownish, then the leaflets from the outside in, then it collapses.  I'd slice that one off, it is not vascularly connected to the rest of the palm anymore.  So it can't "feed" the palm anyway.

[JLM]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

@JLM honestly I don't know why the fronds split like that.  Fortunately it doesn't look anything like Fusarium, and might just be weakened from gusty windstorms.  I have a couple just-trunking queens that do the same thing.  Most of the fronds turn brown and droop before the petiole snaps or folds over, but that occasionally happens. 

I suppose it could have some kind of petiole blight that just somewhat weakens the petiole fibers.  But mine kind of look like that too when they get older.  The outer edges of the petiole start turning brownish, then the leaflets from the outside in, then it collapses.  I'd slice that one off, it is not vascularly connected to the rest of the palm anymore.  So it can't "feed" the palm anyway.

That's good to know, i just hate that it almost makes the palm look like it has a hurricane cut. The Queen in the backyard is full of fronds, it only killed off one frond all summer, and put out several. Here is a pic of the one in the backyard, the fronds put out last summer are almost all there except for the one that died off during the summer. This palm is bound to be 11'-12' tall at this point. Not sure when this was taken, probably last month. Note: You can also see damage from last winter on the frond in the back.
 

Edited December 19, 2021 by JLM

[D Palm]

I have a few queens myself and have observed other queens decline. You may have to do some discovery, i.e. pour peroxide into the crown and the point of collapse. Note any bubbling or bugs crawling.

A tip is to pull that mulch back 6-12” from the trunk. Copper fungicide drench and systemic insecticide drench as a preventative too. 
 

[JLM]

2 hours ago, D Palm said:

I have a few queens myself and have observed other queens decline. You may have to do some discovery, i.e. pour peroxide into the crown and the point of collapse. Note any bubbling or bugs crawling.

A tip is to pull that mulch back 6-12” from the trunk. Copper fungicide drench and systemic insecticide drench as a preventative too. 
 

Tomorrow will be much drier than today, ill make sure to do that

[cbmnz]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:29 PM, cbmnz said:

Thanks. It's a good 6-7m to the base of the crown now, but perhaps I'll carefully go to the top of my step ladder tomprrow to see if can see anything from there. The new frond pushing out looks solid/fine from what I can see from the ground. Did get 50mm rain over 3 days which would have made the frond heavy and been the final trigger.

So when I looked more carefully I found it was  actually the youngest frond that has collapsed, the petiole had faulted/split longitudinally, leaving the frond hanging down and a  part of it sticking up . I thought it had flopped in a way that would completely choke the growth point of the next  frond so needed to be cut.  Was a good excuse to spend Christmas gift voucher from work on a new 4m pole secateur which was needed shortly for other tasks anyway. 

Pulled out the old fashioned handycam with 10  times optical zoom to get a view as ladder did not help much. 

Studying the video now I've finally worked out I got it wrong, it fell in the direction that it was supposed to tilt out in healthy state. which means the next frond emerging was not going to be obstructed. Still it looked ugly hanging down so I would have cut it anyway.

It's confusing which side is which when it's an emerging spear as it's solid and symmetrical, but looking now and knowing every frond is always opposite facing from the last one,it's clear. No sign of insects, no sign of any rot, seems it was just a mechanical failure. 

Risk I foresee now is water getting into the split, and causing rot or attracting insects.  Will just have to monitor for that. I'm glad it's summer not winter, and it will dry quickly after rain.

 

[JLM]

Nicole decided it would be comedic to claim a frond.

I did not expect a frond to collapse from 20-25 mph wind gusts. Ill post a pic in a sec, i will be inspecting this ASAP tomorrow morning, as i suspect the issue that this thread was created for is to blame. The collapsed frond was healthy from what i could tell.

[JLM]

[JLM]

Looked at it this morning, and my suspicion was confirmed. The frond collapsed at a weak point that was mostly dead. There was just enough alive material to keep the frond until it collapsed. The petiole was split lengthwise in 2 different places.

[JLM]

This palm has damn near hurricane cut itself. It only has 2 lower fronds left. One of them looks the same as the others that have collapsed. This is getting annoying very fast. Ill post some pics on here in a sec.

[JLM]

This frond survived 35 mph gusts the other night, and now in gusts below 30 mph it just collapses. I would really love to figure out what's wrong here and fix it, this palm looks awfully funny now.

Edit: I should note that i havent been able to trim off any dead fronds for over a year at this point, the palm trims itself whenever it wants apparently.

Edited November 29, 2022 by JLM

[Merlyn]

@JLM that does look odd.  If the texture of the light brownish stuff is spongy then it might be some kind of fungal or rachis blight.  Have you tried sniffing it or squirting some hydrogen peroxide on it?  It might be that it's just been fighting a fungal infection for years...one not bad enough to kill it but just weaken it?

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP145

[JLM]

8 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@JLM that does look odd.  If the texture of the light brownish stuff is spongy then it might be some kind of fungal or rachis blight.  Have you tried sniffing it or squirting some hydrogen peroxide on it?  It might be that it's just been fighting a fungal infection for years...one not bad enough to kill it but just weaken it?

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP145

I went out and felt of it, the dead tissue is a little softer than the living tissue. I will have to try the H2O2 tomorrow.