Palms for Deep Shade recommendation?

[Paradise Found]

I have this one area that is in deep shade and thinking like to experiment with shade loving palms; could uses some suggestion. shade palms for  z9 or lower. This spot is very shady (maybe two hours of dabble shade morning, and again in the evening.)  Also more mild then the rest of the garden. I really like to try a mule palm in this spot since it will grow faster than regular Butia odorata.

Livistona chinensis, chamadorea radicalis trunking/ microspadix would be a shoo in.  Any others?

Edited December 19, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Paradise Found]

Here is list I came up with starting with the hardiest palm and ending in the less hardy.

Sabal minor

Livistona chinensis 

chamaedoreas,  radicalis, microspadix, radicalis 'trunking'

Arega engleri 

Summer outdoors Only Palms

chamaedorea glauciforlia,  tepejilote , cataractarum. 

Planting is in the old cat cage 12' by 18' and I could put clear plastic inside to make it like a greenhouse, LOL!  Shade greenhouse with no roof? Already have some everygreen ferns growing happily with the moss and in the middle is 100 year old cherry tree, and a few shrubs that bloom in late winter/early spring. Very natural looking.  I have a friend that wants to help me plant them as I do the designing. LOL! 

[oasis371]

What about,,,.

Rhapis humilis, R. excelsa

Trachycarpus fortunei, T. wagnerianus

Chamaedorea (many species are cold hardier than one would expect)

Arenga engleri (nice, hardy clustering palm)

[Paradise Found]

13 minutes ago, oasis371 said:

What about,,,.

Rhapis humilis, R. excelsa

Trachycarpus fortunei, T. wagnerianus

Chamaedorea (many species are cold hardier than one would expect)

Arenga engleri (nice, hardy clustering palm)

Those are nice choices.  Always wanted to try Rhapis huilis or R. excelsa again.  I have about 40, likely more T. fortunei through out the garden.  For sure want to try Arenga engleri again but this time it will be more protected.  Chamaedorea are a must have especially the 'Trunking" type. Also I am limited to how tall to go, under 12' palms is what I am looking at, sorry forgot to put that in. LOL! 

Thanks for suggestion, Oasis.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

The needle palm, Rhapidophyllum hystrix,  is no problem for you as to cold hardiness and shade. I would try to get the largest you can find and give it at least 4 x 4 foot mature grow space or larger ( they get at least 6x6 in the south). In the southeast they usually get some winter sun because of growing in deciduous cover, but I am sure they do not all get winter sun. 

[Paradise Found]

8 minutes ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

The needle palm, Rhapidophyllum hystrix,  is no problem for you as to cold hardiness and shade. I would try to get the largest you can find and give it at least 4 x 4 foot mature grow space or larger ( they get at least 6x6 in the south). In the southeast they usually get some winter sun because of growing in deciduous cover, but I am sure they do not all get winter sun. 

Thanks Jeff, I do have one needle palm but its already in the ground someplace else, but I will for sure add it to the list. 

Any Sabal minor's types that grow bigger and faster in shade?

Edited December 20, 2021 by Paradise Found

[oasis371]

Paradise, here is another one,

What about Caryota mitis? They are clumping and kin to Arenga and would appreciate the shade too.

P.S., I don't know if I would suggest any Sabal in the PNW, they need real, sustained tropical HEAT in Summer. But if you want to experiment, my favorites Sabals are S. louisiana and bermudana,  though why a Bermudan Sabal would need to be hardy to 7 F is beyond my pay grade, but it is, and and love the big, bold glaucous-colored leaves.

Edited December 20, 2021 by oasis371

[Paradise Found]

I do have S. bermudana and its doing good, about a 3gallon size in the ground.  The only one that does good with less heat. 

WOW never even thought about this palm, Caryota.  I do have a small C. himalaya that I need to put in the ground in a few years.  Thanks Oasis, glad you answer! 

[Chester B]

I immediately thought of lady palms like @oasis371 has suggested. I have two in the ground

Don’t forget about Howea they are pretty tough palms in shade of course. 

FYi @oasis371we grow many Sabal species in the  PNW without issue. They don’t grow as fast as in the SE but I wouldn’t consider them slow. Some are better than others with hybrids appearing to be the fastest. If a palm flowers and sets seeds I consider them to be thriving. I have 6 species in the ground that over winter without protection and 4 more species in pots that I feel confident will do well. Just waiting for them to get a little bigger. 

[Paradise Found]

Any favorite sabal minors you like?

[Chester B]

5 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

Any favorite sabal minors you like?

That’s an easy one “Emerald Isle Giant”. I’m not an fan of the dwarfs. Go big or go home right?

[Paradise Found]

Your Right! Go Big or not at all.  

[Peachs]

Mule palm??

[Paradise Found]

2 hours ago, Peachs said:

Mule palm??

Yeah, I was just brainstorming and thought it would make an interesting looking palm but the space is just to shady to support a mule.

[Peachs]

7 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

Yeah, I was just brainstorming and thought it would make an interesting looking palm but the space is just to shady to support a mule.

I think a mule would suit you well, it would grow slower than in full sun, but healthy. Plus for its high price, it's even an investment!

[Paradise Found]

5 minutes ago, Peachs said:

I think a mule would suit you well, it would grow slower than in full sun, but healthy. Plus for its high price, it's even an investment!

Don't tempt me Peachs, LOL! Super cold mule would be my choice, but I need to see how these other palms do first. But I'll probably get one just to have on hand. I have two (1gallon) that are in part shade from overhead protection they should do pretty good for me.

[Scott W]

11 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

Don't tempt me Peachs, LOL! Super cold mule would be my choice, but I need to see how these other palms do first. But I'll probably get one just to have on hand. I have two (1gallon) that are in part shade from overhead protection they should do pretty good for me.

My super mule grew somewhat sideways trying to find sun and get out from the overhang of the bamboo planted about ten feet away.  I actually at one point thought it was damaged, but thankfully not.

Not really sure how they would do in deeper shade.

 

[Paradise Found]

14 minutes ago, Scott W said:

My super mule grew somewhat sideways trying to find sun and get out from the overhang of the bamboo planted about ten feet away.  I actually at one point thought it was damaged, but thankfully not.

 

That's what I am afraid of, since I have two Butia that are doing the same thing leaning towards the sun from to much overhead shade from trachys. Not a good look IMO.

I Just looked and one corner has decent mid morning sun. I think the smaller true shade loving palms would do better there. I'm back to Reality now.   

 Here one of my mules in part shade and it doing great no leaning.  It does get much more sunlight. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Scott W]

@Paradise Found that's looking pretty nice, almost jungle like!

Part of me is rethinking the location I chose for one of my Butia I transplanted into the yard, but I'll wait and see as she's growing nicely at the moment.

[Paradise Found]

1 hour ago, Scott W said:

@Paradise Found that's looking pretty nice, almost jungle like!

Part of me is rethinking the location I chose for one of my Butia I transplanted into the yard, but I'll wait and see as she's growing nicely at the moment.

If She's doing good I let it be.? And get a new one to plant in the new hole.

Why the sudden change of mind? How large and how long in the ground?

These are things I would ask myself.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Paradise Found]

Here is an updated photo taken today in the rain.  Second photo I lighten it up so you can see the trunk better. 

[Jimhardy]

Also.....Tree ferns.

[Paradise Found]

17 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Also.....Tree ferns.

Jim that is an excellent idea, this is the perfect spot for tree ferns. Cooler in the summer and warmer in winter.  A. Dicksonia  and C. Atrox is the only two I have, here a picture of C, Atrox, looks ready to plant this spring.  Atrox is hardy to low 18F-22F if wrapped. Maybe lower?  Thing about tree ferns is you want to keep the ground from freezing to much. Mulch or carboard with blankets on top. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Jimhardy]

Nice...vivid colors and contrast in the shadows. 

[Paradise Found]

57 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Nice...vivid colors and contrast in the shadows. 

Thanks Jim,  Winters here are dark and grey so any little bit of color helps! Looking out my window I see lots of green and other foliage colors that make me feel like I'm somewhere warmer, LOL!  

[Scott W]

5 hours ago, Paradise Found said:

If She's doing good I let it be.? And get a new one to plant in the new hole.

Why the sudden change of mind? How large and how long in the ground?

These are things I would ask myself.  

Yeah, she was just transplanted about 4 months ago.  Just concerned about the amount of direct sun she'll be receiving as currently it appears like it might not be enough for when I start using her to make mules.  I'll know for sure in about 6 months....

[Paradise Found]

23 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Yeah, she was just transplanted about 4 months ago.  Just concerned about the amount of direct sun she'll be receiving as currently it appears like it might not be enough for when I start using her to make mules.  I'll know for sure in about 6 months....

Sound like you got everything under control.  I hope it works out. 

[MarkbVet]

A couple shade possibilities include Sabal sp. Tamaulipas (Mexican Scrub Palm) faster growing non- trunked palm with large leaves, supposedly hardy to zone 7b (not grown it myself), likes moist shade. 

T. latisectus (Trachycarpus martianus subsp. latisectus, T. sikkimensis, Windamere palm) - may be hardy into zone 8, thick leaves, trunked.  Likes some moisture/part shade, not hot full sun.   Again, not grown it myself (yet, hehe).   

 

[Paradise Found]

The Sabal sound neat, but I bet it needs a lot of heat to grow? But still worth a try!  The other trachy's , to tender for my area... If they were hardy I would already have them, LOL!  Thanks for the suggestions Mark. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

If you're looking for companion plants, my personal favorite, Mahonia eurybracteata "soft caress".  I have 7 I think and next year I plan to purchase as many as I can afford. 

Specimen pictured at Lael's moon garden in Rochester/Oakville WA. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[Paradise Found]

I like how the foliage is soft and it looks like a palm tree.  Mine is about 4' tall.  One of my favorites!  I've driven pass that nursery a few times but never stop. Thanks for the suggestion, Jesse. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Paradise Found

[BeyondTheGarden]

11 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

I like how the foliage is soft and it looks like a palm tree.  Mine is about 4' tall.  One of my favorites!  I've driven pass that nursery a few times but never stop. Thanks for the suggestion, Jesse. 

That's why I like it.  Great filler for dead space, looks like a palm, very hardy, loves shade.  You can almost use it like it's a shorter Rhapis excelsa.  

Got any pics of yours?  

Laels moon garden is worth a visit. They don't focus on exotic stiff but I seldom leave there empty handed. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[Paradise Found]

I wish I could but it died this summers after the heatwave, but I kept it planted because it look cool all golden brown and kept its form. LOL!  

Just check and all the leave have fallen down so its just a 4' stick, LOL.  Poor thing.  I am sure there will be another one someday.  And then there's this...birthday is Jan 1st. hehe! 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Paradise Found

[BeyondTheGarden]

I wonder why it died.  None of mine had any reaction to the heat dome.  

[Paradise Found]

16 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

I wonder why it died.  None of mine had any reaction to the heat dome.  

I never got a sprinkler head for the plant and forgot about it and by the time I did it was to late.