Ebenopsis ebano, Texas Ebony at HBG

[Peter]

Had a quick visit to the Desert Garden at the Huntington Botanic Garden in San Marino, California

[ahosey01]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:12 AM, Peter said:

Had a quick visit to the Desert Garden at the Huntington Botanic Garden in San Marino, California

This - tied with Corymbia papuana - is my absolute favorite tree.  Such a deep green, thick canopy with absolutely beautiful form.  I have two in my front yard and would have 50 if I had the space.

[richtrav]

Yeah they look great until they start growing these nasty parasites

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by richtrav

[ahosey01]

5 hours ago, richtrav said:

Yeah they look great until they start growing these nasty parasites

 

 

 

Luckily this doesn’t happen in the low sonoran desert!

[Silas_Sancona]

52 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Luckily this doesn’t happen in the low sonoran desert!

That depends on what part of the Sonoran Desert we're talking about..  This part? not so much.. yet...  Further south?  yep..  Numerous' epiphytic things hang from trees/ cacti in Alamos and Baja Sur..  ..i"ll take all the branch covering Tilliandsia / other epiphytic Bromeliads, Ferns, Cacti, and Orchids covering them i could get ..  Half a dozen Lealia Anceps, Encyclia sp..  Brassavola nodosa / other Brassavola sp. dripping from those limbs would make a great tree look even better.   Attach misters / drip, and i'd bet you could get them to survive our summers too

[richtrav]

Well ok I said that kind of in jest, they are actually very good trees for epiphytes. They’re also good for canopy, the leaves drop and make a fine mulch under them. And they tolerate both irrigation and drought.

 

[Xerarch]

9 hours ago, richtrav said:

Well ok I said that kind of in jest, they are actually very good trees for epiphytes. They’re also good for canopy, the leaves drop and make a fine mulch under them. And they tolerate both irrigation and drought.

 

Now if I'm not mistaken that looks like Tillandsia baileyi? If so that's a pretty cool species in my opinion as it is the only US native tillandsia that is not also native to Florida, it's a bit of a badge of pride for south Texas if you ask me, I saw some of it at the botanical gardens here in Corpus a few days ago.  Nice little flowers too, though not as spectacular as the large bromeliads of course. 

And back to original topic,  Texas Ebony is a pretty cool tree as well, such dark green foliage is not common in such a desert adapted tree, I always stop and appreciate them in wild areas locally.

[Silas_Sancona]

9 hours ago, richtrav said:

Well ok I said that kind of in jest, they are actually very good trees for epiphytes. They’re also good for canopy, the leaves drop and make a fine mulch under them. And they tolerate both irrigation and drought.

 

You're good.. My point was aimed toward those who see tree dwelling bromeliads / ..any other similar plants as " trashy / low class / hideous " ( i've heard such things spoken in the back ground when looking over trees full of Spanish Moss, Resurrection Fern, and Ball Moss )

Agree that leaves from these and Mesquite make excellent mulch.. No need to add extra Nitrogen to anything growing below / near them ..or where said duff / mulch is added to ( top dress some potted stuff w/ it yearly )

6 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Now if I'm not mistaken that looks like Tillandsia baileyi? If so that's a pretty cool species in my opinion as it is the only US native tillandsia that is not also native to Florida, it's a bit of a badge of pride for south Texas if you ask me, I saw some of it at the botanical gardens here in Corpus a few days ago.  Nice little flowers too, though not as spectacular as the large bromeliads of course. 

And back to original topic,  Texas Ebony is a pretty cool tree as well, such dark green foliage is not common in such a desert adapted tree, I always stop and appreciate them in wild areas locally.

Best "dark green leaved, desert adapted trees here:  these, *Acacia* rigidula / schaffneri and Guaiacum coulteri  ( last one adds traffic stopping flowers as well )  A few others from Baja Sur & Sonora / Sinaloa and N.E. Mex. could be included, but aren't seen in landscapes much  ..yet..

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 

  ...A few others from Baja Sur & Sonora / Sinaloa and N.E. Mex. could be included, but aren't seen in landscapes much  ..yet..

@richtrav  Should add i'm also growing E. confinis from Baja..  Smaller sized and has bluer foliage than ebano. More spines on it too, Not that ebano doesn't already have plenty.. lol.  Sapling on the far left -in the white pot- is one of the two Chloroleucon mangense v. leucospermum i have. Always go almost completely leafless this time of year.

Supposedly another Ebanopsis sp. from Sinaloa as well.

[Peter]

I'm becoming more and more interested in these small desert trees, especially as my own climate in Southern California seems to be getting hotter and drier each year.  Some of my aloes have really suffered these last couple of years so these desert plants might be the answer.  Will be planting out a Texas Ebony, Guiacum coulterii from a PalmTalk member,Myrospermum and a Senna atomaria, with a few others coming along.

[Silas_Sancona]

50 minutes ago, Peter said:

I'm becoming more and more interested in these small desert trees, especially as my own climate in Southern California seems to be getting hotter and drier each year.  Some of my aloes have really suffered these last couple of years so these desert plants might be the answer.  Will be planting out a Texas Ebony, Guiacum coulterii from a PalmTalk member,Myrospermum and a Senna atomaria, with a few others coming along.

Hows the Senna looking atm?.. 

[Peter]

Senna looks good-ready to plant out for the spring as it's filled in a 1g.  Curious how the Calpurnia aurea will do over winter as I'm not sure of it's hardiness, although it looks good now after several nights in the mid 30's under canopy

Edited January 3, 2022 by Peter

[Matthew92]

Despite being from the desert, I've observed Ebenopsis ebano to do very well in FL. There are some nice mature specimens here and there in the landscaping at Disney World. Also Leu Gardens in Orlando. No issues due to high humidity from what I've seen. Leaves always look flawless deep green. From what I understand they are 8b hardy with maybe some dieback/leaf drop in harder winters.

I have two saplings that I planted in the median of the street leading into my neighborhood. Typical dry, sandy soil. They've stayed alive but not really grown. Surprised that they haven't done well, but I think it is because they were in a small pot for way too long and rootbound. Might be complications due to poor root structure.

They experienced temps around 23-24 degrees last winter. They lost almost all their leaves but came back just fine with no twig dieback. Considering they're very small (like only 7-8 inches high), I imagine a healthy, more mature specimen would do decently well in an 8b-9a climate as long as it could get established.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Matthew92

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

Senna looks good-ready to plant out for the spring as it's filled in a 1g.  Curious how the Calpurnia aurea will do over winter as I'm not sure of it's hardiness, although it looks good now after several nights in the mid 30's under canopy

Wow!  Nice.. that thing grew!!  Maybe i should have grabbed one when i had the chance, haha.. Hopefully more will be offered again this year ( I know who to nudge if not, lol ).

Calpurnia looks interesting..

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Matthew92 said:

Ebenopsis ebano does well in FL. There are some nice mature specimens here and there in the landscaping at Disney World. Also Leu Gardens in Orlando. No issues due to high humidity from what I've seen. Leaves always look flawless deep green. From what I understand they are 8b hardy with maybe some dieback/leaf drop in harder winters.

I have two saplings that I planted in the median of the street leading into my neighborhood. Typical dry, sandy soil. They've stayed alive but not really grown. Surprised that they haven't done well, but I think it is because they were in a small pot for way too long and rootbound. Might be complications due to poor root structure.

They experienced temps around 23-24 degrees last winter. They lost almost all their leaves but came back just fine with no twig dieback. I imagine a healthy, more mature specimen would do decently well in an 8b-9a climate.

Biggest specimen i remember seeing in FL. ( Never made it to Leu or Disney World.. )  was at Selby, within sight / ear shot of Sarasota Bay.. Any possible exposure to salt spray i might experience / brackish ground water that it might draw up at times didn't seem to bother it all.

Little ones often look a bit " weak " at first.. and are a bit slow to get off the ground. Once they get some wood, they start moving, esp. if given a good soak or two when it is warm ( Water during the summer shouldn't be an issue there at all, lucky you, haha )  Bigger specimens should do fine w/ a " typical " cold  winter there no problem.  

[necturus]

Wish we had those 'parasites' up here! Our Tillandsia have negligible blooms.

[Silas_Sancona]

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Biggest specimen i remember seeing in FL. ( Never made it to Leu or Disney World.. )  was at Selby, within sight / ear shot of Sarasota Bay.. Any possible exposure to salt spray i might experience / brackish ground water that it might draw up at times didn't seem to bother it all.
 

@Matthew92

Here's a picture of the specimen at Selby ( in Sarasota ) Taken : 2/27/ 16.. Unless something happened to it since, should still be there.. 

If you're ever in the area and want to see it in person ( and maybe share an update of it )  It is located near the bay, on the southwest side of where all the massive Ficus /  nearby Koi pond is located in the garden.  Adding in for the heck of it..  The garden's Mazari palm ( < Nannorrhops r. > pictured below ) is nearby ( ..would be located to the left of the Ebony. ) As close as it is to the Bay, I hope Irma ..or some other recent storm didn't damage / kill it.



 

[Xenon]

Oh this thing is hurricane proof too. Laughed at the saltwater inundation/Hurricane Ike in Galveston back in 2008. 

[Xenon]

9 hours ago, Matthew92 said:

Despite being from the desert, I've observed Ebenopsis ebano to do very well in FL. There are some nice mature specimens here and there in the landscaping at Disney World. Also Leu Gardens in Orlando. No issues due to high humidity from what I've seen. Leaves always look flawless deep green. From what I understand they are 8b hardy with maybe some dieback/leaf drop in harder winters.

It's not really from the desert, it grows naturally in far southern Texas and the neighboring Gulf Coast of Mexico (think hot as hell and sweltering humidity, no less than FL) and looks best near permanent water sources where it forms riparian forest together with Sabal mexicana, Leucaena pulverulenta, and a few other species. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Xenon

[Matthew92]

18 hours ago, Xenon said:

It's not really from the desert, it grows naturally in far southern Texas and the neighboring Gulf Coast of Mexico (think hot as hell and sweltering humidity, no less than FL) and looks best near permanent water sources where it forms riparian forest together with Sabal mexicana, Leucaena pulverulenta, and a few other species. 

Ah ok cool. Maybe that's why it isn't doing as well in an extremely dry, sandy median. Also, have you noticed how these fared in TX/Houston Area after the Feb '21 cold wave?

[richtrav]

Some pictures from habitat

SE of Soto la Marina near 3 de Abril, Tamaulipas

 

Same field

 

From cleared tropical forest with Wimmeria concolor, road to Tepeguaje Tamaulipas 1994

 

On the same road c. 2009

 

Growing at the Laguna Madre just south of Carboneras Tamaulipas

 

Esenbeckia berlandieri and Ebenopsis in background, 3 de Abril SE of Soto la Marina Tamaulipas 

 

Entering 3 de Abril, with remnants of tropical forest

 

 

Growing as stunted tree at the tip of the Carvajal peninsula in the Laguna Madre of northern Tamaulipas, with Acanthocereus

 

Stunted grove on Carvajal peninsula, Tamaulipas. With Stenocereus huastecorum

 

At low elevation in the Sierra Madre, with Selenicereus spinulosus

 

Blooming in a Brownsville yard

 

[Silas_Sancona]

@richtrav

Not sure if you've seen this one in person, but is an 2017 observation of an absolute monster Tx. Ebony in McAllen. Was supposedly listed as the Texas state champion in 1990.. Can't imagine stumbling upon a bigger one than that!

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6486861

Wouldn't mind a grove of these in my yard, at all

[Xerarch]

57 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

@richtrav

Not sure if you've seen this one in person, but is an 2017 observation of an absolute monster Tx. Ebony in McAllen. Was supposedly listed as the Texas state champion in 1990.. Can't imagine stumbling upon a bigger one than that!

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6486861

Wouldn't mind a grove of these in my yard, at all

Holy smokes, it's like a live oak!

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Holy smokes, it's like a live oak!

Thought the same thing until carefully studying details in the two pictures.. Can see a couple developing pods in one, remnants of old pods on the ground below/ around the tree in the second.  As of 2019 street view, tree is still where observed.

[richtrav]

I know I’ve driven by it many times but never noticed the plaque, the crown is about the size of many larger ebonies down here but the trunk is indeed unusually thick. I can see on street view behind it is one of the biggest red gums in McAllen, it has been there for many decades. 

[Silas_Sancona]

27 minutes ago, richtrav said:

I know I’ve driven by it many times but never noticed the plaque, the crown is about the size of many larger ebonies down here but the trunk is indeed unusually thick. I can see on street view behind it is one of the biggest red gums in McAllen, it has been there for many decades. 

Interesting,  Figured it had to be quite old.. Would be awesome to see in person.

[teddytn]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:59 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

@Matthew92

Here's a picture of the specimen at Selby ( in Sarasota ) Taken : 2/27/ 16.. Unless something happened to it since, should still be there.. 

If you're ever in the area and want to see it in person ( and maybe share an update of it )  It is located near the bay, on the southwest side of where all the massive Ficus /  nearby Koi pond is located in the garden.  Adding in for the heck of it..  The garden's Mazari palm ( < Nannorrhops r. > pictured below ) is nearby ( ..would be located to the left of the Ebony. ) As close as it is to the Bay, I hope Irma ..or some other recent storm didn't damage / kill it.



 

That’s a very nice nannorrhops, wow gorgeous actually. They can get unruly/ messy looking, way prettier with some maintenance like this one. One of my favorite palms for sure 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, teddytn said:

That’s a very nice nannorrhops, wow gorgeous actually. They can get unruly/ messy looking, way prettier with some maintenance like this one. One of my favorite palms for sure 

Going w/ those i have seen w/ my own eyes, this is about as nice of a specimen as i have seen..  ..and likely the most silvery blue.  Having watched how a normal, winter windstorm can churn Sarasota Bay,  was surprised to see it growing where it likely gets sprayed w/ salt and may occasionally have salt water flood over it ( Can kind of see how close the edge of the bay is in the background on either side of it ) esp. during Tropical Storms / Hurricanes. 

[teddytn]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Going w/ those i have seen w/ my own eyes, this is about as nice of a specimen as i have seen..  ..and likely the most silvery blue.  Having watched how a normal, winter windstorm can churn Sarasota Bay,  was surprised to see it growing where it likely gets sprayed w/ salt and may occasionally have salt water flood over it ( Can kind of see how close the edge of the bay is in the background on either side of it ) esp. during Tropical Storms / Hurricanes. 

From what I can see I would have to agree. Especially so being in Florida and so close to the water (I didn’t look past the palm in the pic at first glance and see the water). Saw the green form in habitat in the high mountains in east/ north east Afghanistan. Strange climate/ locale for palms imo, mostly hot and dry or cold and dry for the entire year. Rained more in events followed by long periods of time dry and cloudless, at least where I always seemed to be stationed. Within site on clear days at most places I stayed for good amounts of time you could see permanently snow capped mountains (foothills of the Himalayas you could say). Mostly gnarly looking specimens in the drier rock filled mountainous bowls. Near rivers and the locales that see more regular precipitation do have “lovelier looking specimens” lol, flying through these regions you could see very lush may not be the correct word lol, but more green than just bleak rock scape. Strange wildlife too,  coyotes, long quilled porcupines, mice, skunks, typical North American desert wildlife. But then also massive monitor lizards, lived and worked around a particularly big one that took up residence under our hydraulic mechanics workshop minimum 5 feet long. Gnarly looking apple orchard on that base that had holes burrowed through mounded up soil around the base of the apple trees that were an apartment complex network for the local cobra population. Supposedly some real nasty snakes in the country. One thing I do not seek out, and very happy to not regularly run into lol

[Silas_Sancona]

Bada:




Bing:   ..Yes, i know it is planted a bit off center ( going by the stake ) ..will straighten itself as it grows..  Now to try and find the 1/2" Drip lines buried somewhere down there to run spaghetti from..



..Now get HUGE...

[Peter]

Excellent!  When is their flowering season Nathan?

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

Excellent!  When is their flowering season Nathan?

Should start seeing flowers on local trees within the next couple  weeks.. Stretch of 90s this week should speed that up a little more.  Usually timed right between the middle of Palo Verde Season, and when Ironwood ( Olneya ) start flowering..