Palmageddon: The Final Inventory

January 6, 2022

It has been almost 11 months since palmageddon and spring will be here in a few months. It is time to start planning for the future, but first, we need to examine the past.

What was the temperature? What has survived? Were the plants protected or exposed?

In this thread list palms, cycads, and other jungle type plants that survived or died. Include your own gardens as well as friends and family gardens with which you are familiar.

January 6, 2022

From my own garden, I will only list the ones that were unprotected to get a sense of their true hardiness (any well-protected palm ultimately survived for me).

So, I got down to 3F that fateful day:

- Chamaerops humilis green (est 6 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived.
- Chamaerops humilis green (est 5 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived (came back from side shoot)
- Sabal Louisiana (est 4 years old) - Little to no damage.
- Sabal Causiarum (est 4 years old. Not trunking) - Defoliated. Survived (but still struggling).
- Sabal Minor Alabama (est 1+ year old) - No damage
- Rhapidophyllum hystrix (est 2 years old) - No damage
- Jubaea x Butia hybrid (est 6 years old, part protection blew off) - Died

January 7, 2022

38 minutes ago, Swolte said:

From my own garden, I will only list the ones that were unprotected to get a sense of their true hardiness (any well-protected palm ultimately survived for me).

So, I got down to 3F that fateful day:

- Chamaerops humilis green (est 6 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived.
- Chamaerops humilis green (est 5 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived (came back from side shoot)
- Sabal Louisiana (est 4 years old) - Little to no damage.
- Sabal Causiarum (est 4 years old. Not trunking) - Defoliated. Survived (but still struggling).
- Sabal Minor Alabama (est 1+ year old) - No damage
- Rhapidophyllum hystrix (est 2 years old) - No damage
- Jubaea x Butia hybrid (est 6 years old, part protection blew off) - Died

What was the full extent of damage to the Sabal louisiana?

January 7, 2022

Austin Texas: 168 hours below freezing, 3 consecutive nights below 15, 5-7 minimum temp across town

Canary Island date palms are the real winner. In north austin, between the 1 and the 35 and north of 183 there was almost complete Washingtonia kill off but have seen roughly a dozen perfectly healthy CIDP’s in the 20-30 ft range, no protection at all, but all were within 20 feet of a building They will defoliate at 18 degrees here but were the quickest to regain full crowns other than some old Filifera and sabals.

Edited January 7, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

January 7, 2022

3 hours ago, amh said:

It has been almost 11 months since palmageddon and spring will be here in a few months. It is time to start planning for the future, but first, we need to examine the past.

What was the temperature? What has survived? Were the plants protected or exposed?

In this thread list palms, cycads, and other jungle type plants that survived or died. Include your own gardens as well as friends and family gardens with which you are familiar.

I should also ask, what will you try growing again?

Edited January 7, 2022 by amh

January 7, 2022

1 hour ago, Swolte said:

From my own garden, I will only list the ones that were unprotected to get a sense of their true hardiness (any well-protected palm ultimately survived for me).

So, I got down to 3F that fateful day:

- Chamaerops humilis green (est 6 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived.
- Chamaerops humilis green (est 5 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived (came back from side shoot)
- Sabal Louisiana (est 4 years old) - Little to no damage.
- Sabal Causiarum (est 4 years old. Not trunking) - Defoliated. Survived (but still struggling).
- Sabal Minor Alabama (est 1+ year old) - No damage
- Rhapidophyllum hystrix (est 2 years old) - No damage
- Jubaea x Butia hybrid (est 6 years old, part protection blew off) - Died

@Swolte How long were you at 3F, and was there snow/ice?

Also, the Chamaerops that survived (6 yrs) - did this come back from the trunk, or pup?

January 7, 2022

I'll list my palms in different lists from experiencing 9° minimum. These are my survivors unprotected:

Butia x Jubaea F2 (trunk-cut)

Butia odorata (3 were trunk-cut, largest bluest mostly defoliated)

Chamaerops humilis green (2 with 80% leaf damage)

Butia x Syagrus (trunk-cut)

Sabal guatemalensis (20% leaf damage)

Sabal uresana coastal form (20% leaf damage)

Chamaedorea radicalis (9 of 10 survived 100% defoliation)

Rhapis excelsa (came back from rhizomes)

Trachycarpus fortunei (10% leaf damage)

Livistona chinensis (trunk-cut)

Sabal minor

Jubaea chilensis

Survivors with protection and minimal leaf damage:

Hyphaene coreacea

Bismarckia nobilis

Brahea armata

Copernicia alba blue

Parajubaea sunkha

Sabal 'Riverside'

Losses with and without protection:

Arenga engleri

Brahea calcarea

Phoenix theophrasti

Phoenix sylvestris hybrid

Phoenix canariensis

Washingtonia filibusta

Chamaedorea microspadix

Livistona nitida

Butia x Syagrus

Copernicia prunifera green

January 7, 2022

1 hour ago, amh said:

What was the full extent of damage to the Sabal louisiana?

I basically forgot to wrap this one as it was in a difficult-to-reach place. I only realized it wasn't protected until days after the event. It was all very green so no damage to fronds. Did not expect that.

44 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

How long were you at 3F, and was there snow/ice?

Also, the Chamaerops that survived (6 yrs) - did this come back from the trunk, or pup?

We got the full treatment. The 3F was for a short period (that one morning) as recorded by a local personal weather station a few houses from me. We had several days & nights below freezing. Snow and ice. I attached an image with a rough impression of the event.

And yes, the surviving medi came back from the main trunk. It looks as good as new now. The other medi is slower to recover but is clearly pushing green and is trying to make the offshoot its main trunk. I am keeping it to see what interesting shape emerges.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Swolte

January 7, 2022

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

Losses with and without protection:

Arenga engleri

Brahea calcarea

Phoenix theophrasti

Phoenix sylvestris hybrid

Phoenix canariensis

Washingtonia filibusta

Chamaedorea microspadix

Livistona nitida

Butia x Syagrus

Copernicia prunifera green

How old was the Arenga engleri; they are supposed to be fairly hardy when established.

January 7, 2022

16 hours ago, Swolte said:

From my own garden, I will only list the ones that were unprotected to get a sense of their true hardiness (any well-protected palm ultimately survived for me).

So, I got down to 3F that fateful day:

- Chamaerops humilis green (est 6 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived.
- Chamaerops humilis green (est 5 years old) - Spear pull and defoliated. Survived (came back from side shoot)
- Sabal Louisiana (est 4 years old) - Little to no damage.
- Sabal Causiarum (est 4 years old. Not trunking) - Defoliated. Survived (but still struggling).
- Sabal Minor Alabama (est 1+ year old) - No damage
- Rhapidophyllum hystrix (est 2 years old) - No damage
- Jubaea x Butia hybrid (est 6 years old, part protection blew off) - Died

My heart just sank when I got to that last one, the JXB. I'm so sorry. I love those palms. I live in Raleigh NC, zone 7b/8a. I'd love to try one of these but I know it would only be a matter of time before a cold winter killed it.

January 7, 2022

11 hours ago, amh said:

How old was the Arenga engleri; they are supposed to be fairly hardy when established.

I bought the Arenga as a 15-gal in December 2018 so nearly 2 full years in the ground. It didn't grow much during that time. I tried to keep it watered well but couldn't understand why it didn't grow. Wasn't shocked that it didn't survive with minimal protection. :crying:

I also had a Brahea clara 'icy blue' that survived protected.

January 7, 2022

4 hours ago, Fusca said:

I bought the Arenga as a 15-gal in December 2018 so nearly 2 full years in the ground. It didn't grow much during that time. I tried to keep it watered well but couldn't understand why it didn't grow. Wasn't shocked that it didn't survive with minimal protection.

I also had a Brahea clara 'icy blue' that survived protected.

I've seen the word brief mentioned in Arenga cold headiness, so that must be the key word. You may have been too dry or alkaline, IDK, do you know anyone in the area who has been successful?

Edited January 7, 2022 by amh

January 7, 2022

1 hour ago, amh said:

I've seen the word brief mentioned in Arenga cold headiness, so that must be the key word. You may have been too dry or alkaline, IDK, do you know anyone in the area who has been successful?

You may be right - our freeze was anything but brief! There was a larger Arenga planted at Oblate School of Theology. Last time I checked back in the summer some suckers were coming back and based on the damage I saw there I doubt that any palms got protection. I think mine would have survived had it been healthy and actively growing. But watering and regular applications of Palmgain didn't seem to do enough.

January 8, 2022

Thank you to everyone sharing your observations of the damage and ultimate survival of the palms and cycads in your gardens.

I had started adding some of the observations from these threads to the Cold Hardiness Observation Master Data. These, along with the observations added to the Freeze Forums since the last update in December 2020, will be invaluable to everyone. There were some entries in these threads that I wasn't 100% sure about from the photos, so I didn't add them. Consolidating them here would help immensely, especially if there are updates on particular plants from the threads below.

Does anyone think that it would be better for the more common species (Syagrus romanzoffiana, Washingtonia filifera/filibusta/robusta, Phoenix canariensis/dactylifera/sylvestis/roebelenii, Butia odorata/capitata, etc.) that it would be easier to combine the observations for each metro area into two observations?

We could have one observation for the survivors and one for the dearly departed with notes in regard to the percent that survived vs. perished as well as the areas that tended to have less damage and more survivors vs. the areas that had complete or nearly complete kills.

Ex

Washingtonia filifera Dallas, TX 50% survival rate in the Dallas/Ft. Worth areas, most with total defoliation. Survivors more common near large buildings downtown.

Washingtonia filifera Dallas, TX 50% death rate, including palms that initially pushed a new spear but ultimately perished. More death on the outskirts or in exposed locations.

January 9, 2022

On 1/7/2022 at 6:33 PM, kinzyjr said:

Does anyone think that it would be better for the more common species (Syagrus romanzoffiana, Washingtonia filifera/filibusta/robusta, Phoenix canariensis/dactylifera/sylvestis/roebelenii, Butia odorata/capitata, etc.) that it would be easier to combine the observations for each metro area into two observations?

We could have one observation for the survivors and one for the dearly departed with notes in regard to the percent that survived vs. perished as well as the areas that tended to have less damage and more survivors vs. the areas that had complete or nearly complete kills.

Ex

Washingtonia filifera Dallas, TX 50% survival rate in the Dallas/Ft. Worth areas, most with total defoliation. Survivors more common near large buildings downtown.

Washingtonia filifera Dallas, TX 50% death rate, including palms that initially pushed a new spear but ultimately perished. More death on the outskirts or in exposed locations.

I like this idea.

My original thought was for a final report in a more central list form because the various threads were becoming a bit cumbersome.

February 7, 2022

On 1/9/2022 at 2:43 PM, amh said:

My original thought was for a final report in a more central list form because the various threads were becoming a bit cumbersome.

My thought was that the same would help, and some threads were a bit more organized.

I posted a new edition of the Cold Hardiness Observation Master Data with as many of the observations as I could dig up. When the sheet was generated, it would have been a much heavier load to do statistical analysis and post only two observations for the more commonly planted species. We could all work on that for each location using this thread as the centralized point of discussion if everyone is open to it.

Either way, for everyone that likes that sheet, the update is available here for use and review:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61358-0000-cold-hardiness-observation-master-data/&do=findComment&comment=1039690

February 8, 2022

On 1/6/2022 at 7:28 PM, Fusca said:

I'll list my palms in different lists from experiencing 9° minimum. These are my survivors unprotected:

Butia x Jubaea F2 (trunk-cut)

Butia odorata (3 were trunk-cut, largest bluest mostly defoliated)

Chamaerops humilis green (2 with 80% leaf damage)

Butia x Syagrus (trunk-cut)

Sabal guatemalensis (20% leaf damage)

Sabal uresana coastal form (20% leaf damage)

Chamaedorea radicalis (9 of 10 survived 100% defoliation)

Rhapis excelsa (came back from rhizomes)

Trachycarpus fortunei (10% leaf damage)

Livistona chinensis (trunk-cut)

Sabal minor

Jubaea chilensis

Survivors with protection and minimal leaf damage:

Hyphaene coreacea

Bismarckia nobilis

Brahea armata

Copernicia alba blue

Parajubaea sunkha

Sabal 'Riverside'

Losses with and without protection:

Arenga engleri

Brahea calcarea

Phoenix theophrasti

Phoenix sylvestris hybrid

Phoenix canariensis

Washingtonia filibusta

Chamaedorea microspadix

Livistona nitida

Butia x Syagrus

Copernicia prunifera green

I can't believe the canary died, those seemed to do well here in college station and San Antonio was warmer i think, I am also surprised the livistona chinensis survived

February 8, 2022

11 hours ago, Centraltxpalm said:

I can't believe the canary died, those seemed to do well here in college station and San Antonio was warmer i think, I am also surprised the livistona chinensis survived

Most of the canaries survived around here. Although maybe 5-10 percent struggled and/or died. A few people just got unlucky.

February 8, 2022

I only had 4 palms in my yard when the freeze hit. All mature big palms so no protection. Two Robusta or Robusta hybrids bit the dust. One was 45 feet tall or so an the other about 30 feet tall. Two Filifera defoliated but quickly recovered to full crowns by summer.

February 8, 2022

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

I only had 4 palms in my yard when the freeze hit. All mature big palms so no protection. Two Robusta or Robusta hybrids bit the dust. One was 45 feet tall or so an the other about 30 feet tall. Two Filifera defoliated but quickly recovered to full crowns by summer.

Are there any thin "extra robusta" left in San Antonio? Something like this

February 8, 2022

13 hours ago, Centraltxpalm said:

I can't believe the canary died, those seemed to do well here in college station and San Antonio was warmer i think, I am also surprised the livistona chinensis survived

Larger specimens did fine - very few casualties that I saw. Mine was about 2 years in the ground from a 10-gal. Not quite to the point where they tend to take off. Also, due to small lot size and lack of room to plant it wasn't in full sun as it ideally should be.

February 8, 2022

28 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Are there any thin "extra robusta" left in San Antonio?

I haven't noticed any survivors around town but I haven't been intentionally looking. I can think of some tall thin ones on the Riverwalk that might be still standing - I'll let you know the next time I'm over there. Majority of Washingtonia around town seem to be filifera and filifera-dominant hybrids.

February 8, 2022

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Are there any thin "extra robusta" left in San Antonio? Something like this

Yes along the riverwalk and other protected areas of downtown. To also include warmer areas of the city such as the south side. Some real thin skydusters still. One of these days I’ll try to get some photos.

Edited February 8, 2022 by NBTX11

February 8, 2022

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

I haven't noticed any survivors around town but I haven't been intentionally looking. I can think of some tall thin ones on the Riverwalk that might be still standing - I'll let you know the next time I'm over there. Majority of Washingtonia around town seem to be filifera and filifera-dominant hybrids.

Agree, most of what recovered in SA is hybrids and Filifera, however if you look in the immediate vicinity of downtown there are some super thin Robusta or Robusta like palms left. Thin and tall.

Edited February 8, 2022 by NBTX11

February 8, 2022

Anyone know if any of these made it in downtown SA? These are tallest I've personally seen and I'm curious due to their proximity to a building

February 9, 2022

16 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Anyone know if any of these made it in downtown SA? These are tallest I've personally seen and I'm curious due to their proximity to a building

Don’t know about those, but I’ve seen others as tall and thin that are alive.

WELCOME GUEST

Palmageddon: The Final Inventory

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