Braheas in the Pacific Northwest...

[MarkbVet]

Hello again....  now I'm curious about who has been growing Braheas (and which species) in our cool, wet northwest US/Canada.   The more common ones, including Brahea armata & Brahea clara,  but also Brahea berlandieri (aka B. dulcis blue form),  B. decumbens, B. dulcis, Brahea 'nuri' etc.-- all of which show promise in their cold tolerance (moisture tolerance is the other concern of course).   Hit me up with pics and knowledge, and include how much winter protection you're using (or not).  Would love to hear about unprotected success stories!

Edited January 8, 2022 by MarkbVet

[MarkbVet]

1 hour ago, MarkbVet said:

Hello again....  now I'm curious about who has been growing Braheas (and which species) in our cool, wet northwest US/Canada.   The more common ones, including Brahea armata & Brahea clara,  but also Brahea berlandieri (aka B. dulcis blue form),  B. decumbens, B. dulcis, Brahea 'nuri' etc.-- all of which show promise in their cold tolerance (moisture tolerance is the other concern of course).   Hit me up with pics and knowledge, and include how much winter protection you're using (or not).  Would love to hear about unprotected success stories!

For our friends in far places, like the British Isles and other areas with cool/wet winters, feel free to chime in with your thoughts & experiences! 

[Chester B]

I think you’ll find outside of the American southwest there are very few Brahea palms out there. Growers in the UK have access to B armata and there are some decent sized ones on the UK. Aside from that I think I might’ve seen an B edulis   In pictures or video. 
 

As you know around us Armata is the one that seems most readily available. Aside from the few people on here that grow it the only other one I’ve seen is a small one that Banana Joe has up in BC. I know @Paradise Found has posted photos of since edulis in the Seattle area and has friends with a pretty amazing garden in Browns Point with a big Brahea.

 

[MarkbVet]

it's a shame, as some Braheas have a real chance outside of the southwest.  As we've read on here recently,  B. clara appears to be wet-tolerant and faster growing than B. armata in cool climates, and is really pretty.   I think you said you've not even got your B. armata rain-protected.  I think B. edulis is more of a zone 9 plant; my area may be a bit too cold.   Anyway, I'm hoping to tease out a few clandestine Brahea growers from the woodwork lol. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by MarkbVet

[Trustandi]

I think we could try Brahea Supersilver, Brahea moorei and maybe Brahea nitida (calcarea) in our area.  They might be upper 8B palms and they will grow slow in our area. 

@MarkbVetI am growing Brahea edulis but it is still small 5g size from jungle music. I am confident you can grow Brahea Edulis in your area. You have more heat and sunshine compared to my area.  I think there is a Brahea edulis in Vancouver area via bananajoe video.

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

it's a shame, as some Braheas have a real chance outside of the southwest.  As we've read on here recently,  B. clara appears to be wet-tolerant and faster growing than B. armata in cool climates, and is really pretty.   I think you said you've not even got your B. armata rain-protected.  I think B. edulis is more of a zone 9 plant; my area may be a bit too cold.   Anyway, I'm hoping to tease out a few clandestine Brahea growers from the woodwork lol. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by MarkbVet

[MarkbVet]

16 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

I think we could try Brahea Supersilver, Brahea moorei and maybe Brahea nitida (calcarea) in our area.  They might be upper 8B palms and they will grow slow in our area. 

@MarkbVetI am growing Brahea edulis but it is still small 5g size from jungle music. I am confident you can grow Brahea Edulis in your area. You have more heat and sunshine compared to my area.  I think there is a Brahea edulis in Vancouver area via bananajoe video.

Yes, Brahea supersilver, 'nuri' and decumbens all are cold hardy enough I think.   Wet tolerance needs to be verified in our area.   We're zone 8a here, so pushing limits of B. edulis, but maybe??  Glad youre having success with it!  See how it does this winter.... is it protected? 

Edited January 8, 2022 by MarkbVet

[Trustandi]

14 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Yes, Brahea supersilver, 'nuri' and decumbens all are cold hardy enough I think.   Wet tolerance needs to be verified in our area.   We're zone 8a here, so pushing limits of B. edulis, but maybe??  Glad youre having success with it!  See how it does this winter.... is it protected? 

Ooh . I thought you are in Beaverton. Isn't it zone 8b? 

Wow.. the Brahea Nuri looks good. I might try it next after Brahea Supersilver.

Hmmm ..  I won't call it a success yet since I just planted last spring. I gave it a rain cover, fleece cloth and Xmas light for our 4 days below freezing temp.

I always plan to protect my newly planted palms the first 2 or 3 years and after that, they will be on their own.  Unless, once every decade artic blast hit us. 

[James W]

I've had a Brahea Edulis (Beaverton, zone8b) and so far . . . not impressed.  It did not like our very mild winter last year, or at least that's how I interpret "I'm just gonna drop all my leaves before spring."  It did bounce back last summer, making a full recovery.  But that just means it returned to it's original state, meaning essentially no growth.  I'll keep it in-ground and hope it develops a liking for our wet winters over time.

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, Trustandi said:

Ooh . I thought you are in Beaverton. Isn't it zone 8b? 

Wow.. the Brahea Nuri looks good. I might try it next after Brahea Supersilver.

Hmmm ..  I won't call it a success yet since I just planted last spring. I gave it a rain cover, fleece cloth and Xmas light for our 4 days below freezing temp.

I always plan to protect my newly planted palms the first 2 or 3 years and after that, they will be on their own.  Unless, once every decade artic blast hit us. 

Nuri is hard to find, that's the only drawback.   B. decumbens is pretty and probably hardy,  but grows really slowly...  it's available at JungleMusic and others.   You're right about Beaverton.... it's a mix of 8a and 8b.  Downtown Beaverton is on lower ground and is rated 8b.  There are low rolling hills all around, though, and I'm on one of those areas of slightly higher ground, supposedly 8a here.  Winters are overall milder than back in the 1980's though; most winters it seems like zone 8b to me.  I'm like you; I'll protect plants while they're young/fragile (and easier to cover up lol) but eventually they gotta make it on their own, survival of the fittest.   If something dies, that just makes room for something new!   Maybe I'd cover a larger prize plant if a rare freeze event happened, but don't want to do that every winter.  My hat's off to those who do,  they got a lot of drive, and can get some great results....it just sounds like too much work for me hehe. The one palm that got me tempted to go to extremes is Bismarkia nobilis; once i move to So. Oregon, I contemplated using kerosene heaters (smudge pots) to keep it warm on the coldest winter days, but then I thought, what happens when it gets too big to really protect?  I'd probably lose it sooner or later, so don't know if I'll try it. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by MarkbVet

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, James W said:

I've had a Brahea Edulis (Beaverton, zone8b) and so far . . . not impressed.  It did not like our very mild winter last year, or at least that's how I interpret "I'm just gonna drop all my leaves before spring."  It did bounce back last summer, making a full recovery.  But that just means it returned to it's original state, meaning essentially no growth.  I'll keep it in-ground and hope it develops a liking for our wet winters over time.

It's worth a shot, since you've got it, but there are several other Braheas that probably have better odds of thriving here.  Especially B. clara which seems to tolerate wet winters just fine, and grows faster in cool climates than most Braheas.   B. armata is cold hardy,  dislikes winter wet but @Chester B (I think) recently mentioned he has B. armata w/o rain protection and it's doing fine.  BTW-- welcome !

Edited January 9, 2022 by MarkbVet

[MarkbVet]

8 hours ago, Chester B said:

I think you’ll find outside of the American southwest there are very few Brahea palms out there. Growers in the UK have access to B armata and there are some decent sized ones on the UK. Aside from that I think I might’ve seen an B edulis   In pictures or video. 
 

As you know around us Armata is the one that seems most readily available. Aside from the few people on here that grow it the only other one I’ve seen is a small one that Banana Joe has up in BC. I know @Paradise Found has posted photos of since edulis in the Seattle area and has friends with a pretty amazing garden in Browns Point with a big Brahea.

 

Between JungleMusic, Fairview Nursery, and North Texas Cold Hardy Palms, there's a decent selection of Braheas available.   More things to try!  (rubs hands in evil glee)

[Trustandi]

@James W Welcome to palmtalk. How big is your Brahea Edulis? Can we see the pic?

Here is my baby Edulis. 

Also I share the link to bananajoe's video of Brahea Edulis in Vancouver. 

 

 

 

[MarkbVet]

2 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

@James W Welcome to palmtalk. How big is your Brahea Edulis? Can we see the pic?

Here is my baby Edulis. 

Also I share the link to bananajoe's video of Brahea Edulis in Vancouver. 

 

 

 

Cute baby!  LOL- it's got a ways to go before it resembles Banana Joe's! 

[Trustandi]

26 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Nuri is hard to find, that's the only drawback.   B. decumbens is pretty and probably hardy,  but grows really slowly...  it's available at JungleMusic and others.   You're right about Beaverton.... it's a mix of 8a and 8b.  Downtown Beaverton is on lower ground and is rated 8b.  There are low rolling hills all around, though, and I'm on one of those areas of slightly higher ground, supposedly 8a here.  Winters are overall milder than back in the 1980's though; most winters it seems like zone 8b to me.  I'm like you; I'll protect plants while they're young/fragile (and easier to cover up lol) but eventually they gotta make it on their own, survival of the fittest.   If something dies, that just makes room for something new!   Maybe I'd cover a larger prize plant if a rare freeze event happened, but don't want to do that every winter.  My hat's off to those who do,  they got a lot of drive, and can get some great results....it just sounds like too much work for me hehe. The one palm that got me tempted to go to extremes is Bismarkia nobilis; once i move to So. Oregon, I contemplated using kerosene heaters (smudge pots) to keep it warm on the coldest winter days, but then I thought, what happens when it gets too big to really protect?  I'd probably lose it sooner or later, so don't know if I'll try it. 

They called it Brahea nari in the UK.. hehehe... Interesting. I figure it will be difficult to get.  

Ah it makes sense. Hills can create different microclimates. Right on, I would be choosy in protecting which prized palms are worth saving... I have way too many palms.  I don't think, I will use kerosene heaters. It is too extreme for me.

My limit is Xmas lights protection and cloth. That protection method worked; I measured the temp inside the wrapped palm, it was 44F and the outside temp was around low 30F.

Where in South Oregon will you plan to move? somewhere in 9a? 

 

[MarkbVet]

15 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

They called it Brahea nari in the UK.. hehehe... Interesting. I figure it will be difficult to get.  

Ah it makes sense. Hills can create different microclimates. Right on, I would be choosy in protecting which prized palms are worth saving... I have way too many palms.  I don't think, I will use kerosene heaters. It is too extreme for me.

My limit is Xmas lights protection and cloth. That protection method worked; I measured the temp inside the wrapped palm, it was 44F and the outside temp was around low 30F.

Where in South Oregon will you plan to move? somewhere in 9a? 

 

Nice wrap!  Yes I'd wrap a small palm for sure, and Xmas lights, but a large palm gets much harder, and the Bismarckia gets big...hence my thought to put heaters (like they used to use in the pear orchards in So. Oregon when I was a kid) on each side of a larger palm, and not have to cover it.  It would only be for (hopefully) a few of the coldest winter days...but not sure i'll try it at all.  I eventually will retire to Medford area (Jacksonville),  it's zone 8a-b still, but fewer harsh winter days than in Portland area, and much drier, only 20 ish inches of rain a year (half what we have in my current area).  Also the hottest area in Oregon (but low humidity).  Temps often average over 90F for 2-3 months in summer.   Down there it stays warm longer into the Fall, and much more warm/sunny weather in Spring (March/April/May) than Beaverton.   True Mediterranean climate in SW Oregon, so things like B. armata,  T. campestris, and even Nannorrhops ritchiana should have a good chance of growing great (and unprotected).  Along with Washingtonias etc.   Should be lots of fun experimenting, and my yard there is 1.2 acres! 

Yes-- I've seen an obscure reference or two that called Brahea "nuri"  by the name "nari" instead.  Maybe it was a European reference, not sure where I saw that. 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by MarkbVet

[Trustandi]

20 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Nice wrap!  Yes I'd wrap a small palm for sure, and Xmas lights, but a large palm gets much harder, and the Bismarckia gets big...hence my thought to put heaters (like they used to use in the pear orchards in So. Oregon when I was a kid) on each side of a larger palm, and not have to cover it.  It would only be for (hopefully) a few of the coldest winter days...but not sure i'll try it at all.  I eventually will retire to Medford area (Jacksonville),  it's zone 8a-b still, but fewer harsh winter days than in Portland area, and much drier, only 20 ish inches of rain a year (half what we have in my current area).  Also the hottest area in Oregon (but low humidity).  Temps often average over 90F for 2-3 months in summer.   Down there it stays warm longer into the Fall, and much more warm/sunny weather in Spring (March/April/May) than Beaverton.   True Mediterranean climate in SW Oregon, so things like B. armata,  T. campestris, and even Nannorrhops ritchiana should have a good chance of growing great (and unprotected).  Along with Washingtonias etc.   Should be lots of fun experimenting, and my yard there is 1.2 acres! 

Yes-- I've seen an obscure reference or two that called Brahea "nuri"  by the name "nari" instead.  Maybe it was a European reference, not sure where I saw that. 

 

Nice. 1.2 acre is huge, you will have a lot of fun planting different palms. 

I found the Brahea nari from this UK website. I use it sometimes before I purchase new palms. 

http://www.trebrown.com/documents/climate/palmhardinesstrials.php

21 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Between JungleMusic, Fairview Nursery, and North Texas Cold Hardy Palms,

Oh by the way, DON'T place any order with North Texas Cold Hardy Palms online. They will only take our money and do not ship any order. 

[MarkbVet]

3 hours ago, Trustandi said:

Nice. 1.2 acre is huge, you will have a lot of fun planting different palms. 

I found the Brahea nari from this UK website. I use it sometimes before I purchase new palms. 

http://www.trebrown.com/documents/climate/palmhardinesstrials.php

Oh by the way, DON'T place any order with North Texas Cold Hardy Palms online. They will only take our money and do not ship any order. 

Wow, really?  Nice to know...hope u got a refund!  Thx for the UK site-  confirms nuri/nari hardy here (rain aside)...  now just gotta find one! 

[Trustandi]

47 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Wow, really?  Nice to know...hope u got a refund!  Thx for the UK site-  confirms nuri/nari hardy here (rain aside)...  now just gotta find one! 

It didn't happen to me, i had some good experiences with North Texas CH in the past. Unfortunately, it happened to other palmtalkers.  

I think it is great website since they have similar climate to us.  Indeed, let's hunt for it. 

[vistaprime]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:46 AM, Trustandi said:

They called it Brahea nari in the UK.. hehehe... Interesting. I figure it will be difficult to get.  

Ah it makes sense. Hills can create different microclimates. Right on, I would be choosy in protecting which prized palms are worth saving... I have way too many palms.  I don't think, I will use kerosene heaters. It is too extreme for me.

My limit is Xmas lights protection and cloth. That protection method worked; I measured the temp inside the wrapped palm, it was 44F and the outside temp was around low 30F.

Where in South Oregon will you plan to move? somewhere in 9a? 

 

I am really shocked at the temperature difference with just burlap and lights and no insulated shelter.  I will be planting a Washy and Mule in Ontario, with more protection. So this gives me increased optimism.  Though strangely as a newbie, these Braheas look to me like Washingtonias. I can't tell them apart. I am in Qatar for most of the year and now I am wondering if some of the Washingtonias I see are actually Braheas.  I should probably post a video on Youtube or take some photos. I am sure the Palm trees we have here in Qatar may be of interest to some just out of curiosity, if anything else and sure the palms in Dubai may be of some interest as well. 

[Trustandi]

8 hours ago, vistaprime said:

I am really shocked at the temperature difference with just burlap and lights and no insulated shelter.  I will be planting a Washy and Mule in Ontario, with more protection. So this gives me increased optimism.  Though strangely as a newbie, these Braheas look to me like Washingtonias. I can't tell them apart. I am in Qatar for most of the year and now I am wondering if some of the Washingtonias I see are actually Braheas.  I should probably post a video on Youtube or take some photos. I am sure the Palm trees we have here in Qatar may be of interest to some just out of curiosity, if anything else and sure the palms in Dubai may be of some interest as well. 

Welcome @vistaprime to Palmtalk.

I was impressed too. I never would have thought the mini Xmas lights could raise the temperature that high. I also tried to use the rope light. That one is too dangerous to be covered with burlap. It is going to be quite a sight to see them mature in Ontario. 

That is a Brahea armata. It does look like a Washingtonia since I tied up all the fronds. It can be tough to differentiate some palms. Check the Brahea Edulis, it is a 'Doppelgängers' of Washingtonia. 

It will be an excellent idea to see video or picture of other palms growing in different part of the world. 

[Ryland]

Brahea armata is grown by a number of people here in the UK and seems surprisingly tolerant - even neglected public plantings seem to do alright.  Some people try to keep the rain off, but it doesn't appear to be necessary.  I think as long as the drainage around the roots is good they seem surprisingly tolerant of cool, wet conditions.  We do generally get less rain though than the Pacific Northwest, and less severe frosts as well so that might make just the difference for a borderline plant.

[Fallen Munk]

Here in Salem I have B. armata and "Frankenbrahea" (B. armata X B. brandeegii).  The Frankenbrahea is my favorite.  Beautiful sea green leaves.  No protection for either, survived the snow just fine.  I got the seeds for the hybrid from @DoomsDave

[DoomsDave]

45 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Here in Salem I have B. armata and "Frankenbrahea" (B. armata X B. brandeegii).  The Frankenbrahea is my favorite.  Beautiful sea green leaves.  No protection for either, survived the snow just fine.  I got the seeds for the hybrid from @DoomsDave

Obscenities have been screamed - very loudly.

[Chester B]

@Fallen Munk is that a pic of the Franken Brahea??  I've pestered @DoomsDave for seeds before, but with no luck.  He was kind enough to send me the seeds for the small flock of Chamaedorea radicalis I have growing in my yard.  This Franken Brahea is on my hit list for sure.  

[Fallen Munk]

40 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Obscenities have been screamed - very loudly.

Haha, thanks DoomsDave!  She's a beauty.  Super fast grower too.  I've got a few others but this one is the rocket of the bunch.  Many thanks for the seeds.

[Fallen Munk]

42 minutes ago, Chester B said:

@Fallen Munk is that a pic of the Franken Brahea??  

Yessir.

[Josue Diaz]

3 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Yessir.

Wow that is an amazing looking hybrid! Great job growing it. 

[Josue Diaz]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:57 PM, MarkbVet said:

Hello again....  now I'm curious about who has been growing Braheas (and which species) in our cool, wet northwest US/Canada.   The more common ones, including Brahea armata & Brahea clara,  but also Brahea berlandieri (aka B. dulcis blue form),  B. decumbens, B. dulcis, Brahea 'nuri' etc.-- all of which show promise in their cold tolerance (moisture tolerance is the other concern of course).   Hit me up with pics and knowledge, and include how much winter protection you're using (or not).  Would love to hear about unprotected success stories!

Not sure what the cold limitations of B. moorei are, but I believe they are from high elevation forests with plenty of fog. I wonder if anybody has tried them in the Portland area. 

[Fallen Munk]

18 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Wow that is an amazing looking hybrid! Great job growing it. 

It could be the one I got from you a while back as a freebie with my shipment.  Along with that princeps X fortunei hybrid that took us a while to ID.    Hard saying because I got a bunch of seeds from Dave around that same time and they've been growing like crazy too.  They seem to like Oregon so far.

[MarkbVet]

11 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Here in Salem I have B. armata and "Frankenbrahea" (B. armata X B. brandeegii).  The Frankenbrahea is my favorite.  Beautiful sea green leaves.  No protection for either, survived the snow just fine.  I got the seeds for the hybrid from @DoomsDave

Thanks for the input; consensus seems to be that B. armata, despite hailing from a warm dry area, tolerates our rain just fine.  Great to know!  I love the color of your hybrid; may have to try one!  Glad it's hardy too.  

[MarkbVet]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:18 AM, DoomsDave said:

Obscenities have been screamed - very loudly.

Hi, just had a thought (always dangerous lol) and now am a bit confused:  I've read that Brahea clara was thought to be a natural hybrid of B. armata and B. brandegeei, although I've also heard it hypothesized that it's a hybrid of armata and some other species, perhaps B. elegans.   But if it's truly armata x brandegeei, it doesn't look like the 'frankenbrahea' we're talking about here (clara of course is true blue, with drooping costapalmate leaves).   Just a different gene combination perhaps, or evidence that clara isn't an armata X brandegeei hybrid combo after all?  

Edited January 25, 2022 by MarkbVet

[Trustandi]

@MarkbVet correct me if I am wrong. I think brahea elegans are quite uncommon in CA area? 

Maybe Brahea 'Franken' is the result of multiple gene combination f2 or F3 maybe ? There is a green version of brahea Clara. 

Regardless, I think they all are so beautiful. I want them all in my garden.. lol 

[MarkbVet]

6 hours ago, Trustandi said:

@MarkbVet correct me if I am wrong. I think brahea elegans are quite uncommon in CA area? 

Maybe Brahea 'Franken' is the result of multiple gene combination f2 or F3 maybe ? There is a green version of brahea Clara. 

Regardless, I think they all are so beautiful. I want them all in my garden.. lol 

Yes clara sometimes is green, though described in one reference as an 'unattractive olive green'.   So there is obvious genetic variation, likely due to the hybrid gene combinations, not entirely a stable population yet.  The 'frankenbraheas' supposedly are more consistently the pretty blue-green or sea-green color like we've seen pics of lately (which is what you and I want to get).   So I'm not sure if the frankenbrahea hybrid is due to different individual parents / gene combinations than clara (but still the same 2 species hybridized) or will clara turn out to be a different hybrid (dave's garden website says clara is a possible hybrid of B. armata and B elegans; another site hypothesized yet another species hybridized with B. armata).  Not sure anyone has proven the genetics of B. clara yet.  It was supposedly a wild hybrid, not done deliberately, so people's guesses as to origin may be partly based on which other species overlap B. armata's range in the wild. 

[bruce Steele]

MarkbVet, Do you know if any plant breeders are actively trying to hybridize the different Brahea?  Frankinbrahea is created by whom?
 

I put  a Brahea Edulis into the patch of nopales.

 

[MarkbVet]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:47 PM, bruce Steele said:

MarkbVet, Do you know if any plant breeders are actively trying to hybridize the different Brahea?  Frankinbrahea is created by whom?
 

I put  a Brahea Edulis into the patch of nopales.

 

@DoomsDavei believe is growing the 'frankenbrahea' hybrid, a really pretty sea green/blue green.   He's on PalmTalk.   Other than that, I don't know of anyone actively hybridizing Braheas.   B. clara is considered a natural hybrid of B. armata + another Brahea.   It's definitely pretty hardy, like B. armata, but  considerably more wet-tolerant than armata.    Nice palm and prickly pears!  

Edited January 28, 2022 by MarkbVet