Notable Survivors of Corpus Christi

[Than]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:13 AM, Xerarch said:

Not sure variety here, but a nice Phoenix 

Sylvestris?

[Xerarch]

9 hours ago, ego said:

Sylvestris?

Doesn't look like sylvestris to me, there are plenty of those around town, looks more like a hybrid of some kind, possibly involving rupicola? given those glossier than average fronds

[Than]

31 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Doesn't look like sylvestris to me, there are plenty of those around town, looks more like a hybrid of some kind, possibly involving rupicola? given those glossier than average fronds

True. Sylvestris X rupicola maybe? Who knows.  Beautiful specimen anyway 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:26 PM, Xerarch said:

Ponytails weren’t a complete loss, here’s a decent size one recovering. 
 

Wow, where is that at?

 

[Xerarch]

9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Wow, where is that at?

 

Your neck of the woods, at a home on the canal just south of Bluff's Landing

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:13 PM, Xerarch said:

Not sure variety here, but a nice Phoenix 

Its a hybrid, Certainly a  significant amount of CIDP. Im guessing its mixed with Sylvester 

[Xerarch]

Handful of Ceibas in this yard looking decent, will have to go see when they leaf out 

[Little Tex]

Did any of the royals or Brahea survive?

[Xerarch]

5 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Did any of the royals or Brahea survive?

Brahea look untouched, and I only know of a few of them. Wish they were used more. I have yet to find a single surviving Royal.  
 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:05 PM, Xenon said:

How did silk floss/Ceiba speciosa do?

There is a large Ceiba speciosa growing in the Black Diamond Oyster Bar (https://www.blackdiamondoysterbar.com/) parking lot.  It is on the road going to the Naval Air Station entrance.  I checked it out in August 2021 because I had always admired it, and I was curious how it did after the freeze as well.  It looked similar to the first Ceiba speciosa picture that @Xerarch posted (i.e., the top crown/branches looked dead, but there was new growth on the trunk below).  The only difference was that the one at Black Diamond was a lot bigger, and the new growth was occurring higher up on the trunk.

On 1/12/2022 at 12:58 PM, Xerarch said:

Recovering Ceiba in the neighborhood, new growth is a little bigger than this right now but there aren’t very many leaves. I would cut out that dead and thin living to the biggest sprout, still a chance to salvage a tree out of this going forward. 

 

[Xerarch]

2 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

There is a large Ceiba speciosa growing in the Black Diamond Oyster Bar (https://www.blackdiamondoysterbar.com/) parking lot.  It is on the road going to the Naval Air Station entrance.  I checked it out in August 2021 because I had always admired it, and I was curious how it did after the freeze as well.  It looked similar to the first Ceiba speciosa picture that @Xerarch posted (i.e., the top crown/branches looked dead, but there was new growth on the trunk below).  The only difference was that the one at Black Diamond was a lot bigger, and the new growth was occurring higher up on the trunk.

 

I’ll have to check that one out, I’ve seen some quite large ones around town that I haven’t got photos of. 

[Collectorpalms]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:31 AM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Its a hybrid, Certainly a  significant amount of CIDP. Im guessing its mixed with Sylvester 

Most common pollen is CIDP and PYGMY. That is probably 20-25 years old. After 1990. 
its a PYGMY on steroids. The old leaf bases look like Pygmy.

SO maybe CIDP x ( cidp x pygmy).. etc..

I had sylvestris crosses, not the same.

Other is CIDP with Reslinata, if it came from Florida. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Xerarch]

Here’s a new to me Brahea I just noticed, which happens to be next to a surviving queen, same neighborhood also had a surviving Bismarck of which I don’t have a photo. 
 

[Xerarch]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:29 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

There is a large Ceiba speciosa growing in the Black Diamond Oyster Bar (https://www.blackdiamondoysterbar.com/) parking lot.  It is on the road going to the Naval Air Station entrance.  I checked it out in August 2021 because I had always admired it, and I was curious how it did after the freeze as well.  It looked similar to the first Ceiba speciosa picture that @Xerarch posted (i.e., the top crown/branches looked dead, but there was new growth on the trunk below).  The only difference was that the one at Black Diamond was a lot bigger, and the new growth was occurring higher up on the trunk.

 

I live only a few minutes from there so I swung by to take a look. Unfortunately this is all that is left of that tree. 
 

[GoatLockerGuns]

15 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

I live only a few minutes from there so I swung by to take a look. Unfortunately this is all that is left of that tree. 

Too bad....it was a really nice specimen before the freeze.

[Xerarch]

28 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Too bad....it was a really nice specimen before the freeze.

Yeah it is too bad, that trunk is big.  There are still others around town that seem to have fared quite a bit better.  I don't know much about which Ceiba species are more tolerant of cold than others.  But after this event I'd like to know more.

[Collectorpalms]

Any Good Nurseries in and around Corpus for anything? Even Oleander varieties?

[Xerarch]

44 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Any Good Nurseries in and around Corpus for anything? Even Oleander varieties?

Turner's Gardenland probably has the best overall selection of material, including a good variety of fruit trees like citrus, avocado, mango, others.  But their palm selection is pretty basic.  I have not paid attention to their oleander selection but it seems like if there was a huge variety of them I would have noticed.  The other notable nursery in town is Gill Garden Center, things I'm interested in seem to be really hit and miss, mostly miss.  But I was pleasantly surprised to see some Strelitzia juncea there a while back and I picked up a few.

[Collectorpalms]

3 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Turner's Gardenland probably has the best overall selection of material, including a good variety of fruit trees like citrus, avocado, mango, others.  But their palm selection is pretty basic.  I have not paid attention to their oleander selection but it seems like if there was a huge variety of them I would have noticed.  The other notable nursery in town is Gill Garden Center, things I'm interested in seem to be really hit and miss, mostly miss.  But I was pleasantly surprised to see some Strelitzia juncea there a while back and I picked up a few.

Turner's Flirt Oleander came from the original owner, and etc... I filled out contact form twice, never got a response. 

My Strelitzia, orange bird, came back from the roots. So that is a possibility.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Xerarch]

47 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Turner's Flirt Oleander came from the original owner, and etc... I filled out contact form twice, never got a response. 

My Strelitzia, orange bird, came back from the roots. So that is a possibility.

Interesting to know about Turner's Flirt, I'll have to take notice of selection next time I'm over there, which is fairly frequent, just to check around and see.

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Any Good Nurseries in and around Corpus for anything? Even Oleander varieties?

Besides Turner's a decent selection of palms can be found in Flour Bluff at Padre Palms on SIPD between Flour Bluff Rd and Waldron Rd.  Not much for cold hardy palms but good sized Bismarckia, Dypsis lutenscens, Cocos, etc. when I lived there but haven't been there since Palmageddon.

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Besides Turner's a decent selection of palms can be found in Flour Bluff at Padre Palms on SIPD between Flour Bluff Rd and Waldron Rd.  Not much for cold hardy palms but good sized Bismarckia, Dypsis lutenscens, Cocos, etc. when I lived there but haven't been there since Palmageddon.

Yes Padre Palms is better for palms specifically, and yeah lots of tender stuff but also has butia, queen, large sabals and sylvesters etc. as well.  One of the few places around that has nice looking bismarcks, I will be picking up a few this year.

[Fusca]

31 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Yes Padre Palms is better for palms specifically, and yeah lots of tender stuff but also has butia, queen, large sabals and sylvesters etc. as well.  One of the few places around that has nice looking bismarcks, I will be picking up a few this year.

Wow, nice to hear that they are carrying Sabals - I don't recall seeing them before.  I almost got a bizzy from them but the only one in the size I wanted was rooted in the ground and didn't want to risk the root damage.  I always liked the one they had near the road that had rooted in the ground from a 30-gal container and they just let it grow!

[James B]

So we can document that Bismarckia and Wodyetia can survive 19 degrees. That’s pretty dang impressive especially in the case of the Foxtails. 
One event is not going to be enough to prove anything to be bulletproof across scenarios but by comparing evidence this has to be added as relevant data showcasing the cold hardiness of these palms. 
Im not sure anyone on PT was thinking Wodyetia could survive 19. Bismarckia maybe but that still maybe an all time recorded low as well.

[James B]

On 2/20/2022 at 7:15 AM, Little Tex said:

Did any of the royals or Brahea survive?

I though I saw another post on PT documenting surviving Royals. Perhaps from a warmer area of South Texas that did not see the same lows?

[Xerarch]

11 minutes ago, James B said:

I though I saw another post on PT documenting surviving Royals. Perhaps from a warmer area of South Texas that did not see the same lows?

Quite a few Royals survived ~100 miles south of here at South Padre/Brownsville etc that bit a extra latitude gave them just a few extra degrees and it made all the difference.  Those foxtails that survived here I suspect must have had some decent protective measures.  I'm curious to know what was done.  On another note I have been encouraged that I keep finding more Bismarck survivors, added another one to the list today

[Alicehunter2000]

Good info here on survivors. Very similar to my Polar Vortex event in 2014 ... same absolute lows but longer duration below freezing for me. Bizmarkia is variable.... its awesome to be able to grow it in 9a. Going to look into some of the non-palm stuff you are showing....would be cool to grow a silk floss and seagrape.

 

[Xenon]

15 minutes ago, James B said:

 Wodyetia can survive 19 degrees. That’s pretty dang impressive especially in the case of the Foxtails. 

No. They were protected 

13 minutes ago, James B said:

I though I saw another post on PT documenting surviving Royals. Perhaps from a warmer area of South Texas that did not see the same lows?

Yes, further south near the border there are royals and foxtails. Some other tropical stuff too like bottle palms. There are even a handful of coconuts on the other side (within a few miles of the border) mostly because the pre-freeze population size was like 100x greater than on the US side. Low was 22-24F. 

Parts of central Florida that have old royals and other tropical stuff but no/very few pre-89 coconuts saw similar temps in the 80s. 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/21/2022 at 7:57 PM, Xerarch said:

Here’s a new to me Brahea I just noticed, which happens to be next to a surviving queen, same neighborhood also had a surviving Bismarck of which I don’t have a photo. 
 

Really nice surviving Queen.  All the ones I have seen here that survived over the last year (and there were very few survivors to begin with), have since died.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/22/2022 at 8:39 AM, Xerarch said:

I live only a few minutes from there so I swung by to take a look. Unfortunately this is all that is left of that tree. 
 

Sad.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:25 AM, Xerarch said:

Yeah it is too bad, that trunk is big.  There are still others around town that seem to have fared quite a bit better.  I don't know much about which Ceiba species are more tolerant of cold than others.  But after this event I'd like to know more.

The really bad drought going in the fall of 2020, probably did that one in in Flour Bluff at the Black Diamond Oyster Bar, especially since the soil here in Flour Bluff is sand, just like on the island.  Ones that are in town across the Oso Bay Bridge, probably fared a little better, since there is a lot of clay soil in town, and therefore, the soil would hold more moisture, especially if people watered there lawns a lot, which they wouldn't be allowed to do if there is stage 2 water restrictions in place (I don't recall if there was back then).

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/22/2022 at 3:47 PM, Collectorpalms said:

Any Good Nurseries in and around Corpus for anything? Even Oleander varieties?

Hey Ryan,

I heard a few years back that old man Turner was an Oleander specialist, but the last time I was in there, I don't recall seeing a lot of Oleanders, but then again, I am usually not looking for them.  Both of them in my yard, Hardy Red, and a variety that is a pale coral pink/light peach color survived the Big Freeze, and never get any water from me, because they are along the back fence line, where it is hard to get the hose to reach.  If they got more water, they would have recovered even better in this very sandy soil of mine.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/22/2022 at 4:47 PM, Collectorpalms said:

Turner's Flirt Oleander came from the original owner, and etc... I filled out contact form twice, never got a response. 

My Strelitzia, orange bird, came back from the roots. So that is a possibility.

The local nurseries leave A LOT to be desired when it comes to actual plant knowledge and customer service.  I had one employee at the former Fox Nursery on Staples here several years ago try to tell that their Florida Thatch Palm (Thrinax radiata) my favorite fan palm, was a Chinese Fan Palm.  I argued with him for about 10 minutes to no avail, but bought it anyway since I was really looking for a decent sized one (about 2.5ft. to 3ft. tall), and they were the only nursery that had them here.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:21 PM, Fusca said:

Besides Turner's a decent selection of palms can be found in Flour Bluff at Padre Palms on SIPD between Flour Bluff Rd and Waldron Rd.  Not much for cold hardy palms but good sized Bismarckia, Dypsis lutenscens, Cocos, etc. when I lived there but haven't been there since Palmageddon.

Yeah, they do have the best selection of palms around here, especially for those of us who are into the more tropical species.  I haven't been in there in a while, but they told me a while back that they may not be getting any more Coconut Palms, since they Florida Dept. of Ag was inspecting their truck more closely.  That might not be an issue too much longer though, since a cop friend of mine who lives here and loves Coconut Palms too, texted me just the other day that they Texas Dept. of Ag may actually be reviewing lifting their restrictions on at least the Green Malayan Dwarf from being shipped from Florida.  If the USDA would just lift any quarantine on sprouted nuts, especially certified Malayans and Maypans sprout coming out of Florida, then it would be a moot point anyway.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/23/2022 at 4:49 PM, James B said:

So we can document that Bismarckia and Wodyetia can survive 19 degrees. That’s pretty dang impressive especially in the case of the Foxtails. 
One event is not going to be enough to prove anything to be bulletproof across scenarios but by comparing evidence this has to be added as relevant data showcasing the cold hardiness of these palms. 
Im not sure anyone on PT was thinking Wodyetia could survive 19. Bismarckia maybe but that still maybe an all time recorded low as well.

There are a few surviving Bismarcks here on the east side of Corpus Christi not too far from the water.  Unfortunately, we lost our 30 to 40ft. tall in overall height mature Cuban Royals around here on the east side of town, a few of which were even starting to flower/seed.  At least 3 of them dated back to the late '90s!  And of course we lost our 20 or so total Coconut Palms here on the east side of Corpus Christi in the Big Freeze.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 2/23/2022 at 4:50 PM, James B said:

I though I saw another post on PT documenting surviving Royals. Perhaps from a warmer area of South Texas that did not see the same lows?

I have heard of at least 5 or 5 surviving Coconut Palms in the Rio Grande Valley, but all but one or two of them was protected.  I have heard of two that may have survived in the Brownsville area unprotected.  They are probably mature Mexican Talls, but I have not been able to see any pics of them yet to confirm it (in the case of the potential two unprotected survivors there).

John

[Xerarch]

Bizzy survives while queen next to it died. So Bismarckia more hardy than queen? Not sure I’m ready to say that but at least this shows that if you live somewhere where queens do well the Bismarck should be worth a try also. Also, I keep finding Bizzy survivors here and there and I have noticed that the survival rate is much higher for small to medium specimens. The largest ones have been decimated, my working theory is that the tallest ones were completely exposed to the relentless arctic winds while the shorter ones at least had some protection from wind and that made the difference. 
 

[Xerarch]

Three more Bismarckia nobilis survivors and one dead one in this group that is off the edge so not pictured. Once again as stated above, these are kindof medium sized and survived while taller ones in town perished. 
 

[Xenon]

20 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Bizzy survives while queen next to it died. So Bismarckia more hardy than queen? 

Ultimately as in bud kill temp, yes (at least in Texas).

But queens grow faster (can replace an entire crown of leaves at 2x the speed of Bismarckia) and get major leaf damage at lower temperatures (21-22F vs 24F), so I'd still place queens as hardier in the broad sense. 

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Ultimately as in bud kill temp, yes (at least in Texas).

But queens grow faster (can replace an entire crown of leaves at 2x the speed of Bismarckia) and get major leaf damage at lower temperatures (21-22F vs 24F), so I'd still place queens as hardier in the broad sense. 

Agreed, and one of the thoughts I was having but didn't put down is that which one performs better is really event-specific.  In this case I'd say I'm seeing a greater percentage of bismarck survivors than queen, but under most scenarios that we're likely to see here it would be queen that would do better, which just illustrates what you were saying about bud hardiness vs. frond hardiness vs. growth rate.