Arctic Cold Front on the way: getting ready

[PalmatierMeg]

I got more palms than sense. I knew winter come for them eventually and this weekend it will. Lows will fall to the low- mid-30s, the coldest since Jan. 2010. I pondered the mess I find myself in and decided some of my tropical palms are worth saving. So, today, we began moving the lucky ones (uber tropical Arecas, Licualas, Pinangas, etc.) indoors. Others currently residing in mini greenhouses (or not) will be covered with the silver cover from my husband's 1979 Lincoln Mark V heated by two oil space heaters tucked beneath. Many less fortunate seedlings will be left outside in the jungle to their own devices to be scheduled for sale this spring if they survive.

I took the following photos 

[KDubU]

Ice man cometh to FL. Going to get really cold in central parts. You have a lot of nice palms Meg, I hope they come through okay. I have 1-3 palms thanI have some concern over as we are heading to 28. Chambeyronia has me the most concerned but it is small so think I can cover it. Then followed Ravenea rivularis then B. alfredii. Here’s hoping they come through unscathed.
 

[PalmatierMeg]

7 minutes ago, KDubU said:

Ice man cometh to FL. Going to get really cold in central parts. You have a lot of nice palms Meg, I hope they come through okay. I have 1-3 palms thanI have some concern over as we are heading to 28. Chambeyronia has me the most concerned but it is small so think I can cover it. Then followed Ravenea rivularis then B. alfredii. Here’s hoping they come through unscathed.
 

B. alfredii is supposedly hardy to 25F. If the Ravenea has some size it should survive but be unhappy. Protect the Chambeyronia

[amh]

Any throw away sheets?

Sheets or tarps with an incandescent bulb could protect the less fortunate seedlings.

[kinzyjr]

Honestly don't know how you keep up with all of it @PalmatierMeg.  Exhausted just looking at it.

[oasis371]

Spring is coming, even for South Florida!

[Looking Glass]

 

I do enjoy the cold snaps.   But this one is going to be a bit nippy.  

Edited January 27, 2022 by Looking Glass

[BeyondTheGarden]

@PalmatierMeg I love the view through the windows there, I would love to see pics or video of your property some day. 

[oasis371]

At least my final, and ANNUAL winter preparations were OVER by mid December, to do this cr'p in late January for a couple of days is just plain CRUEL!!!

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Meg,

I hope the forecasts are overdone, and everything pulls through just fine.  I hope your area doesn't get below 35F/36F, which shouldn't be too bad for you.

John

[enigma99]

Here in CA I had a single cold night this winter, 29F but out in the open chambeys were ok. One that got hurt was next to the neighbors roof and had cold drainage so probably was colder

[96720]

@PalmatierMeg do you keep most of your palms in pots? That’s a lot of work even watering would be a big job 

[JohnAndSancho]

This is dedication. I brought my apartment patio jungle indoors when we had a low of 26 last week, and - honestly, they're still inside because we have another imminent freeze. I just can't bring myself to move them back and forth. I'm talking maybe 15 palms vs your massive garden. 

[Swolte]

7 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I got more palms than sense.

 Will steal!

In all seriousness, good luck. I am not familiar with many of the palm your growing, however, I do have some unfortunate experience getting palms through temps far below their recommended zone. It remarkable what a few frost blankets and some straw can accomplish. For the rest, in case you can't cover or move, don't be shy to cut the leaves off if that means you can protect the palm better (they will likely defoliate anyway). I bought 80+ fleece blankets at the Walmart ($1/piece), wrapped several palms, and put some plastic over it. None of my well protected palms died during palmageddon here in Texas.  

[Palmarum]

The newest forecast as of a few minutes ago call for 35ºF (1.6ºC) for western Ft. Lauderdale - central/southern Broward County... ugh this is going to be bad. Does not count the wind chill, which has created freeze warnings for the western half of the county. If anything, it won't last too long and it will warm up afterwards. The news is referencing the winter of 2010 as of the "last time it got this cold." The once-every-ten years' cold snap? Maybe.

Starting to bring in things that haven't had to move in years. Trying to predict the cold tolerance of new and unknown plants. With enough doubt they are going inside for the garage camp out anyway. Getting the improvised heating devices ready...

 

Just now, JohnAndSancho said:

... I just can't bring myself to move them back and forth. I'm talking maybe 15 palms vs your massive garden. 

I still had plants inside from the last cold blast, last weekend. I was about to put them outside earlier in the week when this upcoming weekend's forecast started to appear. I had the indoor gathering outside yesterday to be watered and to get some sun, then back in they went.

Ryan

[JohnAndSancho]

@PalmatierMeg absolutely 100% unrelated. But the seedlings I bought from you last year have mostly gone pinnate and are growing like weeds. Good vibes. 

[PalmatierMeg]

8 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

@PalmatierMeg absolutely 100% unrelated. But the seedlings I bought from you last year have mostly gone pinnate and are growing like weeds. Good vibes. 

Thanks. I need something good to come our way. Woke up this morning to a freeze warning for Cape Coral. AAARRRGGGHHH!

[sonoranfans]

looks like this weather might kill small zone 10 palms here.   It may also defoliate some small (warm) 9b palms.  I think I will put my teddy bears, satakentia, and dictyosperma album 3-5 gallons under my  (5' trunk) livistona saribus which is 10' from the house.  Every now and then an event comes that sobers up the zone pushers in all of us.  This might be one of them.  The weather underground site seems to have moderated the lows in my area to 34F, was predicting 32F yesterday.  That simplifies things a bit if true.

[Merlyn]

I had about 3 hours of 30-32F on Sunday night, with heavy snowlike frost.  The official Sanford airport temperatures were 35F, which matched my front yard's sensors.  I haven't seen any significant damage yet, except for the bananas that are pretty burned.  There are a few yellowed top leaves on things like Dypsis Pembana, but that was expected from the frost.  Fortunately I noticed it was 35F around 11pm, so I put cardboard boxes over a Corypha, whole leaf Elaeis, and Caryota Gigas.  Right now Wunderground is predicting a low of 39 tonight (so probably 35ish in my backyard) and about 5 hours of 31-33F on Saturday night/Sunday morning.  That probably means 25-28F in the backyard, which will undoubtedly kill a few things.  The only good thing (I guess) is that the dew point is supposed to be in the teens...so maybe not as much frost?

[eacdmd86]

Hello,

New member here from Ft. Lauderdale.  Although I've grown up down here, I've only had some of these palms for less than a year,  so I haven't had to deal with this before.  I'm concerned about the impending cold night coming up, as I have a number of special palms around my house that I'm unsure can handle it.  We are forecast to get about 5 hours of 36 degree weather.

I will obviously bring all potted palms inside.  I've already been doing that with my Cyrtostachys when it dips into the 40s.

But I have quite a few in-ground (for less than a year) and could use some advice in terms of what to prioritize for covering or if they'll be ok.  Researching online, some of these seem like they would just make it through since it will be short, but I'm not sure how accurate the temperature cutoffs are...

10b palms: 2 licuala grandis, 3 buccaneer, 3 carpoxylon, old man palm

There's also a dypsis hybrid...no idea of tolerance.  It's a cross between a triangle and teddy bear palm, so going by those, I'm figuring 10a?

Lastly, I have a flamethrower that's been in the ground for maybe 2 months.  Soon to open a new leaf.  I've read mixed cold hardiness on this one.  Some say down to 20 degrees, where others say much higher.

Will these all be ok, considering minimum 36 degrees for a short period?

[Palmarum]

Just now, eacdmd86 said:

... But I have quite a few in-ground (for less than a year) and could use some advice in terms of what to prioritize for covering or if they'll be ok.  Researching online, some of these seem like they would just make it through since it will be short, but I'm not sure how accurate the temperature cutoffs are...

10b palms: 2 licuala grandis, 3 buccaneer, 3 carpoxylon, old man palm

There's also a dypsis hybrid...no idea of tolerance.  It's a cross between a triangle and teddy bear palm, so going by those, I'm figuring 10a?

Lastly, I have a flamethrower that's been in the ground for maybe 2 months.  Soon to open a new leaf.  I've read mixed cold hardiness on this one.  Some say down to 20 degrees, where others say much higher.

Will these all be ok, considering minimum 36 degrees for a short period?

Of everything on your list, the main worry would be the Licuala grandis. Protect, wrap if you can.

Some others might get very minor damage, but I doubt it based on the duration. I left my Pseudophoenix species as is.

One thing you could do to the L. grandis after the cold snap, is to douse the bud, emerging leaf, etc. with hydrogen peroxide to help prevent budrot. This was done after the 2010 cold and it helped many in-ground specimens. I remember the loss rate of L. grandis trunking specimens after the 2010 cold spell was 50%.

Ryan

[Dartolution]

@PalmatierMeg I can't believe this front is stretching all the way down to you guys! Good Grief!

It has been an exceedingly cold January here with lows in the 20s and highs only in the upper 40s and 50s at times. The coldest we have gotten is 19F. Which seemed to have killed 1 of my 5 causiarum seedlings unfortunately or at least defoliated it, the others directly beside it are completely unbothered oddly. Who knows!
Hopefully the cold will quickly subside for you guys down there!!! 

[Scott W]

Well thankfully I don't have too many uber sensitive palms to worry about, just mostly seedlings and a couple handfuls of smaller stuff that fits in the greenhouse.  Wasn't going to cover anything but decided I still wanted to get some more size on my Royal, unknown Dypsis (triangle most likely) and since my Adonidia merillii won't fit in the greenhouse these all got wrapped.  My potter Satakentia is staying on the cover d porch and debating on covering that still as well as my Syagrus campylospatha and Butia archeri.  Oh yeah, and my smaller Beccareophoenix alfredii will be left uncovered to see how they fare....I have more if they don't survive.

Greenhouse is attached to the house so it gets radiant heat from it, but I do have a small heater if needed.  I'm mostly worried for my Dendrocalamus validus, though I'm thinking mid 20s shouldn't be too bad.  When we had 18f on the Northside of Jax in 2010 the plant I had then was killed back to the ground.

[oasis371]

Yep, it's been an unusually cold January in the eastern third of the country..., and it's PERSISTENT which is the really bad part!  Major trough in the the East. And where exactly has it been warmer than normal?  Places that really need winter warmth, Arizona and California! (sarcasm intoned).  BTW., if it makes you feel any better, Miami's actual temperatures (not even RealFeel), will be sinking into the 30's and and highs in KEY WEST will stay in the 50's as maximum temps. 

[96720]

It’s maybe been warmer in Arizona but not warm enough for me bring on the 100’s!!!

[oasis371]

No offense Phoenix, but jus' so you know, everyone east of the Mississippi hates you right now. LOL!

[96720]

Yes!! But more than likely our time is coming I just hope it waits 10 or so years the longer the better!!!

[D. Morrowii]

Most of these have been in the garage since the last cold front a week ago. I’ve been out of town and didn't want to be rushing around tonight or tomorrow. 
 

“Ive got more palms then sense” - loved this @PalmatierMeg and can relate!

Looks like we will see something between 30 and 34 on Sunday morning. 

[PalmatierMeg]

18 hours ago, 96720 said:

@PalmatierMeg do you keep most of your palms in pots? That’s a lot of work even watering would be a big job 

Only the uber tropicals and species that can't tolerate my highly alkaline soil. The majority are in the ground.

[PalmatierMeg]

42 minutes ago, oasis371 said:

No offense Phoenix, but jus' so you know, everyone east of the Mississippi hates you right now. LOL!

I don't. I've lived long enough to know everyone gets their comeuppance at some point. My gardens have lived on borrowed time for 12 years - now time's up so maybe the Grim Reaper has come to collect. It was a good run while it lasted.

[eacdmd86]

1 hour ago, Palmarum said:

Of everything on your list, the main worry would be the Licuala grandis. Protect, wrap if you can.

Some others might get very minor damage, but I doubt it based on the duration. I left my Pseudophoenix species as is.

One thing you could do to the L. grandis after the cold snap, is to douse the bud, emerging leaf, etc. with hydrogen peroxide to help prevent budrot. This was done after the 2010 cold and it helped many in-ground specimens. I remember the loss rate of L. grandis trunking specimens after the 2010 cold spell was 50%.

Ryan

Thank you for the advice. I will definitely wrap the licualas. I can do the old man and buccaneer also since they aren't too big.

The carpoxylon and dypsis hybrid are bigger. If I wrapped just the crown/bud area but left the leaves sticking out, is that just as useless as nothing? Am I worrying too much?  Pics for reference. The smaller carpoxylons have been struggling to adapt to the full sun from wherever they were grown.

The smaller, easier to wrap:

 

[96720]

@eacdmd86 where did you get your Dypsis hybrid the only Dypsis I have been able to grow is the triangle but I would love to give that one a shot it’s beautiful!!

[96720]

No zone pusher likes to hear about this kind of weather you just hope that the weather man is wrong and it’s not as bad as Texas !!

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, eacdmd86 said:

10b palms: 2 licuala grandis, 3 buccaneer, 3 carpoxylon, old man palm

There's also a dypsis hybrid...no idea of tolerance.  It's a cross between a triangle and teddy bear palm, so going by those, I'm figuring 10a?

Lastly, I have a flamethrower that's been in the ground for maybe 2 months.  Soon to open a new leaf.  I've read mixed cold hardiness on this one.  Some say down to 20 degrees, where others say much higher.

I'd agree with Palmarum's advice.  I moved my two potted L. Grandis into the garage tonight, and will take them back out on Monday afternoon.  They did fine last winter with temps down to around 32-35F up near my house (radiant heat and frost protection) but in the Orlando area I'll probably be several hours below 32F on Saturday night.  The triangle (Decaryi) is pretty tough, so I'd guess the hybrid is pretty tough too. 

The flamethrower is NOT hardy to 20F, I had 3 die after a 28F frost last year.  Under canopy they take moderate damage in the upper 20s, but they take severe damage with frost.  If you'd like to peruse a lot of freeze damage data, we have a separate forum for that.  And KinzyJr made an awesome spreadsheet of hundreds (thousands?) of freeze damage reports:

Here's my garage tonight, about 100 pots are taking up temporary residence.  Many of them are reasonably hardy into the 20s, but are still fairly small seedlings.  And I'd rather have them survive the next 3 nights with no significant damage.  I moved about 20 other pots up onto the back porch, just for frost protection.

[Palmarum]

1 hour ago, eacdmd86 said:

Thank you for the advice. I will definitely wrap the licualas. I can do the old man and buccaneer also since they aren't too big.

The carpoxylon and dypsis hybrid are bigger. If I wrapped just the crown/bud area but left the leaves sticking out, is that just as useless as nothing? Am I worrying too much?  Pics for reference. The smaller carpoxylons have been struggling to adapt to the full sun from wherever they were grown. ...

Wrapping, protecting the base and bud are the best parts to protect if you can't protect the entire palm. You are probably warmer than where I am, but it's never a bad idea to protect something if you are worried about it. If you cannot wrap, a small tent works good too. An incandescent bulb of around 75 watt can do a lot to heat up the immediate area, more so if under a tent. It doesn't have to heat up the spot to a certain point, just has to 'break the cold'.

 

18 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

... Here's my garage tonight, about 100 pots are taking up temporary residence.  Many of them are reasonably hardy into the 20s, but are still fairly small seedlings.  And I'd rather have them survive the next 3 nights with no significant damage.  I moved about 20 other pots up onto the back porch, just for frost protection. ...

My garage looks very similar. Last time I was out there I could hear tree frogs making noise, so I know I brought in passengers with the plants.

I am not sure what you got in there species wise, but anything really sensitive might not like being on the concrete floor. Most of my stuff is sitting on tables or impromptu benches, if they are small enough to fit. I have had damage on certain things due to the conductive effect of concrete.

Ryan

[Merlyn]

3 minutes ago, Palmarum said:

My garage looks very similar. Last time I was out there I could hear tree frogs making noise, so I know I brought in passengers with the plants.

I am not sure what you got in there species wise, but anything really sensitive might not like being on the concrete floor. Most of my stuff is sitting on tables or impromptu benches, if they are small enough to fit. I have had damage on certain things due to the conductive effect of concrete.

I don't have anything super-sensitive, at least nothing that I'd think would be damaged by being on a concrete floor in the 40s.  The majority of what's in there are good to around 30F, at least when larger.  I get down to the upper 20s every winter, and many of them were in pots outside last winter with brief blasts to 28-30F.  I brought them in due to the expectation of 5+ hours below 30F.  The wimpiest are probably Pinanga Coronata, a couple of Dypsis, Areca Triandra, Caryota Opheliopelis, and a bunch of seedlings from RPS' supposedly variegated Mitis.  I say supposedly because I haven't seen any signs of it yet...

[eacdmd86]

3 hours ago, 96720 said:

@eacdmd86 where did you get your Dypsis hybrid the only Dypsis I have been able to grow is the triangle but I would love to give that one a shot it’s beautiful!!

Hybrid is from a nursery down in Homestead. I didn't pick it up myself, but rather the landscaper that I had rework some beds located it for me.

It's probably my favorite of the palms. It's got the brown fuzzy texture of the teddy bear, super crisp rings, and some of the leaflets on newer growth fronds continued growing thin, long ribbons down to the ground. You can kind of see them if you zoom in on the picture.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

6 hours ago, oasis371 said:

Yep, it's been an unusually cold January in the eastern third of the country..., and it's PERSISTENT which is the really bad part!  Major trough in the the East. And where exactly has it been warmer than normal?  Places that really need winter warmth, Arizona and California! (sarcasm intoned).  BTW., if it makes you feel any better, Miami's actual temperatures (not even RealFeel), will be sinking into the 30's and and highs in KEY WEST will stay in the 50's as maximum temps. 

Sad, very sad.  Here along the South Texas Coast, we have had an unusually cold January, after one of, if not THE Warmest Decembers ever recorded, so things were really tender going into January, having been exposed to late September/October temps for almost the entire month of December.  I am really worried about my plants.  Already down to 38F at my place in coastal Corpus Christi at 10:00 pm on Friday night.

John

[palmfriend]

Wishing you all the best for your plants!!! I really hope the weather reports turns out to be

wrong and no serious damages occur! 

Fingers crossed!

best regards from Okinawa 

Lars

 

[Looking Glass]

10 hours ago, eacdmd86 said:

Thank you for the advice. I will definitely wrap the licualas. I can do the old man and buccaneer also since they aren't too big.

The carpoxylon and dypsis hybrid are bigger. If I wrapped just the crown/bud area but left the leaves sticking out, is that just as useless as nothing? Am I worrying too much?  Pics for reference. The smaller carpoxylons have been struggling to adapt to the full sun from wherever they were grown.

The smaller, easier to wrap:

 

Wow man.  Fan-f’ing-tastic.  Great stuff.  Really great choices and pics and judicious placements. You have a lot to look forward to in coming years.   That ground cover in the last pic…. Is that perennial peanut?  Where are the crotons and cordylines for that splash of “punch you in the face” color!  You’re in South Florida right?  I believe it’s a requirement to have some.