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Oldest living palm?


Ubuntwo

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What is the oldest living palm?

The most straightforward answer to this question is a suckering palm like Serenoa, where a single clonal colony may be several thousand years old.

I'm more curious as to the oldest bud (apical meristem) or what we would see as an individual palm. Towering palms regularly growing to 100' - ie, Washingtonia, Roystonea - may only be 50 or 60 years old considering their rapid growth rates. 

Sabal palmetto is by no means a fast grower, and still manages to reach great height in its native range. The tallest known Sabal palmetto had just under 90' of trunk, so assuming 15 years to begin trunking w/ a growth rate of 6 inches/year, we arrive at an age of ~190 years.

The taller a palm gets, the more vulnerable it becomes to wind and lightning. Perhaps the oldest palms are then tremendously slow growers, spending extended periods of time relatively low and protected.

Coccothrinax argentata fits that bill, growing at only about 2 inches/year once a trunk develops. In 1994, the tallest C. argentata in Florida was estimated to be 188 years old. It was killed in Hurricane Irma (Sept. 2017) at ~211 years old.

Anyone have some contenders? I imagine Coccothrinax, Pseudophoenix, Kentiopsis, Copernicia in their native habitat are up there.

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It would have to be slow growing and protected from anything that would potentially kill it.  I would look at the slowest growing palms as most likely candidates.  Maybe Sabal minor or Sabal etonia

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Brevard County, Fl

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28 minutes ago, oasis371 said:

I am going to guess, a Jubaea chilensis.

 

I think that’s likely. I remember a post on here some time back referencing Jubaeas that were 1600 (?) years old in habitat. 

Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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8 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I think that’s likely. I remember a post on here some time back referencing Jubaeas that were 1600 (?) years old in habitat. 

Wow seriously? 

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19 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I think that’s likely. I remember a post on here some time back referencing Jubaeas that were 1600 (?) years old in habitat. 

i, for one, don't exactly think its real

edit, it's not real. It's 160 years which can be topped pretty easily

Edited by spike
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This is a second hand story, but supposedly there’s pictures of mature Sabal palmettos on Bald head island North Carolina during the civil war, and again supposedly, using these photos as reference you can find at least a few that are still alive now. On the bucket list to make it down there at some point. 

Edited by teddytn
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20 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I think that’s likely. I remember a post on here some time back referencing Jubaeas that were 1600 (?) years old in habitat. 

Here is a post discussing just that: 

A huge palm no doubt. Jubaeas have been recorded up to about 100 feet. Growth rate in cultivation is about 6/inches per year (once they put on a trunk). I'm sure they grow slower in their native habitat, prone to droughts and all sorts of extremes, but I'm not sure how that could add up to 1600 years.
Edit: the 160 years mentioned by @spike sounds about right.

Edited by Ubuntwo
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15 minutes ago, Ubuntwo said:

Here is a post discussing just that: 

A huge palm no doubt. Jubaeas have been recorded up to about 100 feet. Growth rate in cultivation is about 6/inches per year (once they put on a trunk). I'm sure they grow slower in their native habitat, prone to droughts and all sorts of extremes, but I'm not sure how that could add up to 1600 years.
Edit: the 160 years mentioned by @spike sounds about right.

I don’t know about 1600 years, but there are a few 150/160 ish year old Jubaeas in public gardens in Melbourne that are a tiny fraction of the size of ‘El Capitan’ so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they could get to 500+ years. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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Oraniopsis appendiculata.

Only if you include it's unique habit of rooting directly from a falling trunk and regrowing again and again, not to mention the extreme slow rate of growth. Specimens that keep the process going would never be limited by age; by way of trunk height/length, so they could be immortal.

The contest could be sub-divided into single trunk, clustering, branching, etc. categories.

 

Just now, teddytn said:

This is a second hand story, but supposedly there’s pictures of mature Sabal palmettos on Bald head island North Carolina during the civil war, and again supposedly, using these photos as reference you can find at least a few that are still alive now. On the bucket list to make it down there at some point. 

I remember seeing/hearing the same thing. It was on a history channel-type documentary on the Civil War and they were near a fort or a battlefield where old, living S. palmetto trunks were laden with injuries and bullet holes caused by Minie ball ammo. I do not remember specifically where it was.

Ryan

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South Florida

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32 minutes ago, Palmarum said:

I remember seeing/hearing the same thing. It was on a history channel-type documentary on the Civil War and they were near a fort or a battlefield where old, living S. palmetto trunks were laden with injuries and bullet holes caused by Minie ball ammo. I do not remember specifically where it was.

Ryan

Given equal conditions, Carolina-origin Sabal palmettos grow at about half the rate of Florida palmettos. So any 50'+ palms on the SC coast may have seen the Civil War. 

Edited by Ubuntwo
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"150 year old Sabals", ...Oh yah??...  an Italian Chamaerops says "hold my beer"  for La Palma de Goethe, at 437 years, documented !

The third image is from within the structure, looking upwards.

padua 004.jpg

Padua 001.jpg

Padua 003.jpg

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San Francisco, California

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16 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

"150 year old Sabals", ...Oh yah??...  an Italian Chamaerops says "hold my beer"  for La Palma de Goethe, at 437 years, documented !

The third image is from within the structure, looking upwards.

padua 004.jpg

Padua 001.jpg

Padua 003.jpg

how old do you think the tallest stem would be? 

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The stems grow all the way to the top of the enclosure, and then are cut out.  I expected this palm to be a withered, pitiful remnant, much like a bristlecone pine, but the palm is quite vigorous. Just as we arrived the gardeners were finishing a trim.  In a big hurry,  they left a spadix on the walkway, so naturally I picked up this litter.  If you have traveled much in western Europe most every important church will have a reliquary,  a container for a holy relic, usually something like the finger bone of a minor saint.  The main cathedral in Milan claims to have one of the three nails used for the Crucifixion.   So now, I have my own ethically sourced relic from this famous palm !    :winkie: 

This palm is on the grounds of the  University of Padua, an easy day trip from Venice by train.  If you do visit, be sure to view the Giotta frescoes at the Scrovegni chapel as well, a World Heritage site.  Completed circa 1305 these frescoes are in excellent condition,   unlike The Last Supper.   :(

IMG_0464.JPG

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San Francisco, California

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"437 year old Italian Chamaerops" ... Serenoa says hold my beer :winkie:

The length of the saw palmetto trunk, or ramet, is related to its age. (Photo by Charles O'Connor.)

500-700 years for a single trunk is not uncommon.

Serenoa clonal colonies can exceed 10,000 years

South Florida pine flatwoods habitat | Slash Pine and Saw Pa… | Flickr

There is a more prostrate silvery form of Chamaerops with a growth habit similar to Serenoa. Could these clumps match the longevity of Serenoa?

Chamaerops humilis var. cerifera - Pacsoa

Edited by Ubuntwo
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On 1/29/2022 at 7:22 PM, Ubuntwo said:

What is the oldest living palm?

The most straightforward answer to this question is a suckering palm like Serenoa, where a single clonal colony may be several thousand years old.

I'm more curious as to the oldest bud (apical meristem) or what we would see as an individual palm. Towering palms regularly growing to 100' - ie, Washingtonia, Roystonea - may only be 50 or 60 years old considering their rapid growth rates. 

Sabal palmetto is by no means a fast grower, and still manages to reach great height in its native range. The tallest known Sabal palmetto had just under 90' of trunk, so assuming 15 years to begin trunking w/ a growth rate of 6 inches/year, we arrive at an age of ~190 years.

The taller a palm gets, the more vulnerable it becomes to wind and lightning. Perhaps the oldest palms are then tremendously slow growers, spending extended periods of time relatively low and protected.

Coccothrinax argentata fits that bill, growing at only about 2 inches/year once a trunk develops. In 1994, the tallest C. argentata in Florida was estimated to be 188 years old. It was killed in Hurricane Irma (Sept. 2017) at ~211 years old.

Anyone have some contenders? I imagine Coccothrinax, Pseudophoenix, Kentiopsis, Copernicia in their native habitat are up there.

I am certain that some palmettos are well above the 200 mark, keep in mind once sabals are above the 30-40ft range the 6inch a year rate slows way down, more like 2-3inches a year...  Theres many in the crystal river region in particular that are in the 70-80 foot range, many thousands, 

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When I was in Uruguay, the locals said that palms in the local Butia forest could be 500+ years old.  I don't know what the source for that number was, but Butia are slow growing and get quite large so I suppose it's believable. 

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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Multi headed palm buds can be much older because the growth is slowed due to sharing of water and nutrients. A good example is the imperial date palm in Elche Spain. It is estimated to be around 180 years old and is expected to keep on going much longer. Here it is approximately 1840 and today:

Screenshot_20220202-232645_Chrome.thumb.jpg.87674f16d8f72f27691d698c82cdb7df.jpg20211208_111213.thumb.jpg.ec12c106207ae68a3ddc419bb8594720.jpg

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