desert palms indoors

[Kentuckypalms]

I was wondering why desert palms arent grown indoors more often. It seems a common problem with indoor palms is low humidity. But all that I can think of come from wet environments. Could a brahea or washingtonia do well indoors. Well not exactly a desert palm, they are related to one, the pygmy date is probably the closest and they seem to do well indoors. Perhaps the thorns or light issues are why.

[PalmsandLiszt]

If you mean in the house, I suspect light is the main problem. They would probably do all right in a bright conservatory. Many also grow impractically large (not that I ever pay any attention to such trifling practical considerations when I decide a want a certain plant).

P. roebelenii is native to quite warm, humid areas of South East Asia (Southern China, Vietnam, Laos), so I'm not sure that it's really a desert palm, although some of its toughness might well come from ancestors that were desert plants. I've been to Southern China and the vegetation all seemed very lush in the wild bits, and it rained a lot.

[oasis371]

Well, the case with Washingtonia is that they they can grow so big, so fast if really happy indoors, all the while demanding very bright light.  Then, there are the THORNS. Same is true for Phoenix canariensis (Canary Islands). European fan palms might work indoors, but I almost never see them in the interior plant trade.   As said above P. roebelenii is native to monsoonal wet zones, so they still are going to resent low humidity.  If humidity is the issue indoors, I am going to suggest Hyophorbes, both the Spindle and Bottles do well indoors, even under lights.  One big warning with these is that they BURN really, really, really badly if they go from interior to exterior lighting. I know a lot of northern growers put their plants out for the season, but like I said, these do grow well even under artificial lighting. If you do put them out, put them in deep shade for a couple of weeks before introducing them to any sun. 

[Kentuckypalms]

The palmpedia page says brahea armata will grow in shade, has anyone grown this inside?

Edited February 20, 2022 by Centraltxpalm

[hbernstein]

On 2/20/2022 at 5:26 PM, Centraltxpalm said:

The palmpedia page says brahea armata will grow in shade, has anyone grown this inside?

Yes, Some years ago I grew one at a sunny window, low humidity location. The plant did great!

I wouldn't grow it without at least several hours of direct sun daily. If you can grow Chamaerops without etiolation indoors, then you can grow B. armata

[wimmie]

Chamaerops humilis, Trachycarpus, Phoenix canariensis and dactylifera don't like being grown indoors because of the high temperatures in winter combined with low light intensity. They will tend to grow stretched and thinner petioles, become weaker and weaker and will therefore be attacked by spidermites and thrips ending in a sad death. Really good houseplants are Howea forsteriana, Dypsis lutenscens and Chameadorea species.

[oasis371]

"Chamaerops humilis, Trachycarpus, Phoenix canariensis and dactylifera don't like being grown indoors because of the high temperatures in winter combined with low light intensity. They will tend to grow stretched and thinner petioles, become weaker and weaker and will therefore be attacked by spider mites and thrips ending in a sad death. Really good houseplants are Howea forsteriana, Dypsis lutenscens and Chameadorea species."

 

Wimmie, I agree with every thing you said above, BUT, I don't like Dypsis lutenscens indoors at all. And that's ironic because it was my very first palm over 40 years ago. Why? Well I look around..., inside the house, basement, my GARAGE, and outside.  I see lots of palms, and no D. luenscens (a.k.a., 'Areca palms').

Here is my list for best indoor palms:

• Rhapis excelsa (Lady Palm)
• Chamaedorea (any species)
• Hyophorbe (both Spindles and Bottles)
• Caryota mitis (Fishtail palms)
• Howea forsteriana (Kentia palm)

 

The following palms & Cycads  I grow to sizable specimens but they never come into the house, for the reasons you provided:

• Butia odorata (Pindo Palms)
• Phoenix canariensis
• Syagrus r. (Queen Palms)
• Chamaerops humilis (Med fans)
• Trachycarpus fortunei, wagnerianus, latisectus
• Cycas revoluta (Sago 'Palm'), Dioon edule, Encephalartos 
• Washingtonia robusta or filabusta?

Other palms around:

• Cocos nucifera
• Dypsis decaryi

 

 

 

[PalmsandLiszt]

9 hours ago, oasis371 said:

I don't like Dypsis lutenscens indoors at all. And that's ironic because it was my very first palm over 40 years ago.

I think the main reason why they often don't do well is that they are mass-produced by nurseries in high-humidity, high-temperature conditions grown in a coir-peat or compost-based medium. This allows fast growth to produce attractive, saleable pots of palms, but when the average person buys one and takes it home, the humidity is much lower, so the plant transpires much more and this medium dries out too quickly. This stresses the roots, which need constant, stable moisture ('lutescens' means something like 'of the swamps'), which in turn means that if they're allowed to dry out, the leaves will start to shrivel, and if they're then flooded with water, rot will set in because the plant is too stressed for the roots to take it up quickly enough, leading to oxygen shortage. They're also magnets for spider mites, and fungus gnats will invade during the wet stage.
What you need to do is get rid of as much of the nursery media as possible and replant in a highly water-retentive but very free-draining and oxygen-rich medium with lots of large particles (pumice, bark chips, seramis, leca, perlite, etc.). Now it won't dry up so quickly but will remain oxygenated even while you're watering it a lot. They tolerate root disturbance quite well.
I agree that Kentias are far superior (and attractive, in my opinion) indoor plants, although I'd still amend the medium if I bought a nursery kentia.

9 hours ago, oasis371 said:

Cycas revoluta (Sago 'Palm'), Dioon edule, Encephalartos 

Green Encephalartos from central Africa do fine inside (in bright places); it's the blue ones/desert species that don't like warm temperatures + low light. Same with Dioon (D. spinulosum will do fine).

Edited February 26, 2022 by PalmsandLiszt

[wimmie]

In the seventies, I also had a Chrysalidocarpus lutescens in my livingroom. The species was just introduced as a houseplant overhere. At first not very succesfull, cause many didn't trust the yellow petioles! The palms stood next to the pond, what...., a pond?, yes indeed, I had a pond with a small fountain in the livingroom. The palm did very well and stood permanently in water!

[oasis371]

"Green Encephalartos from central Africa do fine inside (in bright places); it's the blue ones/desert species that don't like warm temperatures + low light. Same with Dioon (D. spinulosum will do fine).

I wouldn't know as none of my cycads are allowed into the house, too big, too prickly, potentially toxic, etc... 

Encephalartos altensteinii is the one from that genus that I do have, it seems very easy, and forgiving to cold temperatures, along with the Diione (the latter one produced cones last season)

Interesting about the Dypsis lutescens (a.ka., Areca palms), I did not know that. Interesting then that at least three common indoor palms are so water-loving..., Majesty, and Cat palms are also, practically aquatic.  Too many people follow the advice to..., "Let dry between watering", and that does not work for all species. Maybe will give them yet another try.

I forgot to include Wodyetia bifurcata (foxtail palm) in the category of best indoor palms above. And reflecting on my list, I note that none of them are desert species, they are all native to either tropical or subtropical humid regions, but somehow deal with the low humidity of indoor locations (at least seasonally). I think the issue for true desert species is the lack of interior light, and excessively warm, winter conditions, so very prone to leggy growth and insect problems. Tangentially, some people that do grow these as "houseplants" seem to think that they should be treated as cacti and skip on the watering.

Edited February 26, 2022 by oasis371

[PalmsandLiszt]

21 hours ago, oasis371 said:

I wouldn't know as none of my cycads are allowed into the house, too big, too prickly, potentially toxic, etc... 

They're only toxic if you eat them; I don't have a habit of eating my plants (but potentially a problem if you have small children or pets with pica). Yes, some are prickly (something like E. caffer is neither very prickly nor big, but then we have the desert plant problem). E. horridus is well-named in my opinion; it is horrid. I don't understand why so many people like it. It just looks like a giant thistle, and you can't do anything to it without emerging as if you've just been in a fight with half a dozen wildcats.
There are plenty of Zamias and Ceratozamias that are neither big nor prickly, and are forest under-storey plants to boot. Also Lepidozamia (not prickly, but big with time), and Bowenia, which I think is a very underrated genus that makes a very attractive and easy indoor plant (very tough, multipinnate fronds which don't seem to care about humidity at all, and are tolerant of lowish light). Either Bowenia species would probably be my top indoor cycad.

21 hours ago, oasis371 said:

I forgot to include Wodyetia bifurcata (foxtail palm) in the category of best indoor palms above

I have a few W. bifurcata, but they are still very small (grown from seed). They seem to need a lot of heat and decent light to grow well.
Chambeyronia macrocarpa/hookerii do well indoors, and don't seem to be at all fussy, something I meant to include in my previous post.

21 hours ago, oasis371 said:

I think the issue for true desert species is the lack of interior light, and excessively warm, winter conditions, so very prone to leggy growth and insect problems. Tangentially, some people that do grow these as "houseplants" seem to think that they should be treated as cacti and skip on the watering.

I agree with your analysis. They're probably better off in winter in a cool but frost-free greenhouse in temperate regions. At the very least, they want to be in a cool place in the house when the heating's cranked up.

Edited February 27, 2022 by PalmsandLiszt