Sick Pigmy Date Palm - Causes?

[frederick]

Hello, Can someone help me on identify why my pigmy palms are turning black?

Leaves have charred, black spots along stem and at tips nd turning yellow on the outer edges.

Thanks for your help,

Frederick.

[JLM]

Can we get pics of the entire palm? Just looking at the pictures, i would be willing to guess that these are lower fronds. If they are, they will die off soon anyways. These palms usually put out several fronds at once, so it makes sense that they lose several at once too.

[frederick]

Hello JLM,

Here are the photos of the entire palm. Not sure what is going on but the

yellow streaks and black on the leaves looks like they are sick or diseased.

Concerned that it will consume the plant and it will die.

Saddened.. If I knew what they have, I might be able to help and revive them.

Any help is very much appreciated,

Frederick.

[JLM]

How long has it been since they had fertilizer? Those fronds shouldnt be yellowing at that point. Ive seen Pygmy Dates even in local nurseries that are about this size that have a full crown of green fronds. The fronds on said palms also were hanging much lower than on yours. Your palm overall also seems too light green, maybe its just me.

[D Palm]

Why the strap? Recent transplant?

[frederick]

JLM & D.Palm,

I fertilized it two to three weeks ago with Vigoro 8-4-8 Palm, Ixora and Ornamental Food

about 3/4 cup each which is about .71lbs. Fronds were a light yellow so I fertilized them.;

but now they are dark yellow, almost orange and look like they are sick.

Also fertilized my grass at the same time which is about 2' to 3' feet away with 15-15-15

turf fertilizer. (Grass and palm are separated by a concrete border

and made sure turf fertilizer didn't spill into the area of the palm).

Wondering what could of happened? This is my first time taking care

of palms and not sure if I did the right thing by fertilizing them like that

or could be something else?

The strap/post is because it gets terribly windy here with strong winds

easily knocking down the palm.

Thanks for your help,

Fred

[frederick]

Worried about what may happen to them.. any help from your expertise is

much appreciated. -f.

[Silas_Sancona]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:29 PM, JLM said:

How long has it been since they had fertilizer? Those fronds shouldnt be yellowing at that point. Ive seen Pygmy Dates even in local nurseries that are about this size that have a full crown of green fronds. The fronds on said palms also were hanging much lower than on yours. Your palm overall also seems too light green, maybe its just me.

Agree,  While the older fronds look the most yellow, Looks a bit hungry overall..  w/ maybe some frost tinged bronzing..

@frederick Where are you located? knowing this will help answer more questions related to what your winter has been like / provide clues to any cold related stress it may have seen, etc.. 

When you fertilized, assuming you applied the fertilizer out closer to the drip line ( where water would drip from the fronds ) as a pose to up closer to the trunk? 

Casual glance points me in the " May need more K / Mag. " direction.   Fert. ratio you mention, applied to the pygmy is good.. Pretty mild actually < a good thing >  you might consider adding something like SulPoMag a little later ..and maybe a spring dose of Iron as the weather starts warming up..  Turf Fert shouldn't hurt it, but is a bit higher in Phos. than i'd apply -even on a lawn.  Regardless, shouldn't hurt anything as long as you regularly irrigate both the lawn and palm.

Overall, Pygmys are pretty resilient and take a good amount of abuse in stride.. Can even handle our heat here in the desert, as long as they are positioned where they get some shade thru the afternoons when it is over 105-110F, ..and are watered / fed well.  Yours should be fine one you get the yellowing situation in check..  As mentioned, perfectly normal for the oldest leaves to yellow, them turn brown as they dry out.

 

[spike]

It looks like a fungus on it's own, but it could be caused by an underlying issue. have you cut it back a lot? or only the dead ones? I don't see any dead leaves. Maybe magnesium and/or potassium deficiency? I'm not good with fertilizers so someone else might be able to help. I don't think pigmy date palms are that easy to kill.

edit: oops, didn't see someone else had posted some much more detailed info haha

Edited March 11, 2022 by spike

[frederick]

I had fertilized them about 2' from the trunk (as recommended on the fertilizer package) not the drip-line from the

 outer fringes at the tips of the fronds. I was reading that turf fertilizer, if applied close to the palm,

knocks out potassium and Magnesium from the palm's soil and it becomes K & Mg deficient. It says

that a lack of potassium (K) is more harmful than a lack of magnesium (Mg) for the palm and will need to be fortified with

these nutrients for the palm to recover. But, I'm afraid of putting anything else on it (either of these),

without making things worse.  (Discovered that Mg you can get from Epsom Salts & K from (Potash),

both commonly sold.

It doesn't rain much here, mostly arid but get heavy showers for a few days during the winter. Our

winters are mild but recently had some really cold snaps hitting low low 30s at night.

It was really cold at night quite of few times this winter; very unusual. (Was really cold

around the time the palm started show distress, and was  coincidental when the fertilizer was applied).

I live in California along the Moreno Valley/Corona/Lake Elsinore/Murrieta/Temecula corridor

where its desert arid (like Phoenix, on map we are not too far from Phoenix and probably have

the same cold weather at night during the winter like in Phoenix) and have mild temperatures

during day and cold at night.

Could it be a combination of dipping down to low 30s at night and over-fertilizing (during winter months)?

Or could it be potassium and/or magnesium deficiency? I water them every morning at 6AM for 3min.

Thanks for your help!

Fred

 

[frederick]

Any input will be appreciated... not sure what to do.. don't want them to die.

[Looking Glass]

Potassium and magnesium deficiency in date-family palms is pretty easy to diagnose, and they seem to follow textbook patterns.  

Magnesium deficiency will have yellow edges with green central area on the oldest leaves.  Potassium deficiency will have yellow-orange spots progressing to leaf tip and edge necrosis also on the oldest leaves.   They are often seen together in my area with our sandy soil.   It looks like you have some mild potassium deficiency, but that not the main problem making the entire plant yellow.   

If the whole plant is yellow, and it’s nutritional, it’s either iron or nitrogen.   Iron deficiency will be seen more in the new growth and happens when it’s cold or the soil is too soggy.  

It may not be nutritional at all.  Temps in the 30s may be a little rough on these.  Any weed killer used near these palms?   

I’ve got 10 of these, and they respond quickly to K-Mg treatments when needed.  But they always show it pretty classically.  they’ll push for spikes at a time when happy.  
 

Any diseases in the area hit these palms?   What about that on 10+ feet behind it - is that one doing OK?  
 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Looking Glass

[frederick]

Thanks for your reply.  After looking at the long necrotic spots on the stem

of the fronds, could this be potassium deficiency? I noticed that it is getting

worse, the black spots have increased and have become bigger. Also the

majority of the leaves are yellow. If its potassium deficiency, what product

would you recommend for K-Mg treatment?

 

Also, since the whole fronds are yellow (pretty much the whole plant), could it also

be iron deficient? Should I first try potassium and then wait

and try iron?

No crab grass killer near these palms, only 15-15-15 turf fertilizer about

3-5' feet away where there I have grass on their borders.

I'm seeing young spikes of green fronds at the top; seem healthy.

After taking a look at the photos (at the very top), do you see

the classic symptoms of K-Mg deficiency. Could it be due to

over-fertilizing or turf fertilizer contaminating their soil?

Not sure where to start.

Thanks for your help,

fred.

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, frederick said:

Thanks for your reply.  After looking at the long necrotic spots on the stem

of the fronds, could this be potassium deficiency? I noticed that it is getting

worse, the black spots have increased and have become bigger. Also the

majority of the leaves are yellow. If its potassium deficiency, what product

would you recommend for K-Mg treatment?

 

Also, since the whole fronds are yellow (pretty much the whole plant), could it also

be iron deficient? Should I first try potassium and then wait

and try iron?

No crab grass killer near these palms, only 15-15-15 turf fertilizer about

3-5' feet away where there I have grass on their borders.

I'm seeing young spikes of green fronds at the top; seem healthy.

After taking a look at the photos (at the very top), do you see

the classic symptoms of K-Mg deficiency. Could it be due to

over-fertilizing or turf fertilizer contaminating their soil?

Not sure where to start.

Thanks for your help,

fred.

The spots are just “blight”.   They are likely spots of fungal damage from cold temps, overhead water, or something else.  They won’t go away, but the new leaves won’t get them when the underlying problem is fixed.   Potassium related necrosis starts at the tips.   

In my area, all date palms get K and Mg deficiency due to the soil conditions combined with general neglect.  They need sul-po-mag/langbeinite 4x per year in addition to regular Palm fertilizer.  I do this, and give extra when I notice the first signs of it in the old leaves.  Palms should not have old half yellow leaves.  The leaf should go from green, to dead in several days to a week when it is time.  Half yellow old leaves means deficiency.   

Lawn fertilizer is not balanced enough for palms, especially in poor soil.  It normally has high relative nitrogen, so it pushes new growth in palms, but without the other stuff the palms needs to support the growth.  K, Mg, Mn, B, Fe isn’t available in the right relative amounts to N, so it ends up causing imbalances in the nutritional status of the palm over time.   Unless you are using Milogrinite (binds Mn - but I still use it on my lawn), it doesn’t really block nutrients in the soil.  

If your new leaves are coming in green, that’s a good sign.  I would fertilize it with a good quality Palm fertilizer (something close to 8-2-12 with micros that’s timed release).  Maybe hit it with a little extra potash(K) or sol-po-mag (2:1 K to Mg).  Then make sure you are giving adequate water and wait for warm weather.   Roebellinis grow quickly, so they should bounce back soon if they are going to.   Cheap Palm fertilizers have fast dissolving components and too much salt.  

Dont cut off unsightly yellow leaves this year.   That’s the plant sucking needed nutrients out.  Leave them til they are brown and dead.   

Look at other Roebellinis in the neighborhood.  Are they yellowing from a bad winter also?
If so, maybe it was just a bad stretch.  Those guys have survived in the ground for a while.   
If it’s an infectious or fungal problem in the trunk, it will probably croak no matter what, so I wouldn’t worry about that too much.   

https://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/documents/PalmNutritionalDeficiencyCorrectionAndAntagonisticNutritionalRelationships.pdf

 

 

 

[Cedric]

You "may" have an ash or ash sludge problem. I notice you are tipping your ash and spent coal in that bed. This when watered forms a slurry and the roots suffocate. The fine particles of ash get into every tiny soil gap until it becomes a solid mass in which nothing will grow well. A general yellowing would be the result as drainage is blocked. They can take a fair amount of water these Phoenix species, I've even seen them growing in spongy swampy areas in the wild, but without oxygen they wont thrive. 

This much ash would also definitely cause trace element problems as well. The reason being ash makes the soil extremely alkaline which will bind up vital micronutrients.  So when using ash (wood ash) which is beneficial use very sparingly, a light dusting is all that's needed. Most palms are happiest on the acidic side.

If this is more than just wood charcoal and is an OD of ash you can try and remove it and replace with top soil. OR use something like sulphur to acidify the soil. Wha ever you do do in moderation as the solution could become the next problem.....the ash will compost eventually. To speed it up lay down a thick pine bark mulch.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Cedric