What do you think - are these gone...?

[palmfriend]

Hi,

I have mentioned a while ago that many of my palms were heavily attacked by rhinoceros beetles during the last year.

When I started to spray and dilute last fall I might have missed the right time to get some of my palms back on track -

in short words - TOO LATE.

Two washies outside are definitely gone - they look horrible or what is left of them - but with these two coconut palms

I am not sure. Please have a look.

This one got almost blown over during a typhoon a couple of years ago but seemed to recover.

Here are some of the entry spots where the beetles went inside.

This is how the crown looks now - rotten parts and the remains of death fonds, no new spears for more than half a year.

One more image...

Here the other one - a green variation.

An almost empty crown...

Countless spots where the beetles attacked the palm.

A close shot of the crown - no growth/new spears for months, too...

What do you think? Is there still hope or should I go for the blade? It is not the end of the world if I have to take them out because I have PLENTY of replacements

but these were the first coconut palms I have planted when we bought the house adecade ago, so there is a sentimental element. However, please let me know what you think -

 

best regards 

 

Lars

 

[UK_Palms]

Is it definitely rhinoceros beetles? It looks more like Red Palm Weevil or the dreaded Paysandisia moth. Those things have been wrecking havoc across Europe, North Africa, Middle East and Asia.

[palmfriend]

26 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Is it definitely rhinoceros beetles? It looks more like Red Palm Weevil or the dreaded Paysandisia moth. Those things have been wrecking havoc across Europe, North Africa, Middle East and Asia.

Thank you for your reply!

In this case there is no doubt...

This one dropped out of the Golden one when I cleaned up the crown. I find and found them constantly in my garden, not just biting their way inside along

a crown shaft, no, they are also sitting on top of emerging (still bundled up) new spears (esp. P. rupicola) and chewing their way down... These beetles are usually active in 

spring and fall while winter and summer are kind of safe. Funny thing is, they are sold as pets (!) at the same homecenter that offers palms in the neighbor section...

However, since last year I know now where and what to look for when checking my garden, so I hope I can get it under control from now on. Time will tell.

 

Lars

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

Ouch that looks bad! Is there any control for those beetles?

[Billeb]

It hurts me to look at these pictures. I just can’t see how they can recover.
I’m sure what you can’t see internally is even worse. 

-dale

[Cindy Adair]

I just this minute took a photo of the first rhinoceros beetle attack on my little palms in Puerto Rico in 2022.

Iguanura piahensis

 

 

From a distance the palms look fine.

I got on PT to add to my previous posts about this beetle so will probably duplicate these photos there.

So sorry about your palms!!

I have saved some caught early by using the Bayer imidocloprid granules or liquid.

But yours look like multiple invaders. Wish we could try the virus used in Fiji years ago…

[palmfriend]

Thank you all for your replies!

I am often asking the locals what they do about this problem but no one has an answer. It really seems that all you can do is 

to make the palms as unattractive as possible with something that smells wierd for those beetles. 

However, I went to action yesterday - first time using a chainsaw - and took them out, the washies outside are gone, too and

of course planted something new immediately...

...two B.alfredii. 

They were together in one pot for three years and it was about time. The rootball was well developed,so planting out was easy. I hope they will do well.

Again, thank you for your replies and @Cindy Adair thank you for pulling up those threads about the same problem and how you dealt/deal with it!

 

regards

Lars

 

[PalmsandLiszt]

18 minutes ago, palmfriend said:

Those are very close together, considering how thick the trunks get on those things.

[Billeb]

7 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

Those are very close together, considering how thick the trunks get on those things.

Agreed but can’t say I’ve ever seen a double Alfredii. “By the book” would say 10’-15’ apart im sure but to each his own. Gonna be crazy looking in 10. 

-dale

[Merlyn]

6 hours ago, Billeb said:

Agreed but can’t say I’ve ever seen a double Alfredii. “By the book” would say 10’-15’ apart im sure but to each his own. Gonna be crazy looking in 10. 

I'm gonna find out what a triple Alfredii looks like...I hope! 

[Billeb]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

I'm gonna find out what a triple Alfredii looks like...I hope! 

 

Both yours and @palmfriend‘s multi Alfredii are going to look awesome until they start to get big big, that’s when it’s going to get very interesting how they grow and adapt. Gonna be sweet! I’m not a risk taker unfortunately. Only multi’s I’ve got are the standard Dypsis clumpers, Archontophoenix and Wodyeta Bifurcata. Snooze…

-dale 

[palmfriend]

21 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

Those are very close together, considering how thick the trunks get on those things.

I agree, but there was no way to rip them apart. The rootballs were completely interlaced -  I would have risked both palms if I would have tried to separate them. 

14 hours ago, Billeb said:

Agreed but can’t say I’ve ever seen a double Alfredii. “By the book” would say 10’-15’ apart im sure but to each his own. Gonna be crazy looking in 10. 

-dale

Thank you!

I assume - since they are similar to the Cocos nucifera species - that their trunks are probably moving away from each other. (see this one:)

Let's see how it goes. 

7 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I'm gonna find out what a triple Alfredii looks like...I hope! 

 

Very nice - I guess they are going to burst the pot in no time!

All the best -

 

Lars

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:18 AM, palmfriend said:

Thank you for your reply!

In this case there is no doubt...

This one dropped out of the Golden one when I cleaned up the crown. I find and found them constantly in my garden, not just biting their way inside along

a crown shaft, no, they are also sitting on top of emerging (still bundled up) new spears (esp. P. rupicola) and chewing their way down... These beetles are usually active in 

spring and fall while winter and summer are kind of safe. Funny thing is, they are sold as pets (!) at the same homecenter that offers palms in the neighbor section...

However, since last year I know now where and what to look for when checking my garden, so I hope I can get it under control from now on. Time will tell.

 

 

 

Lars,

I just saw this post of yours.  Those things are HORRIBLE, and they are sold as "pets" there???  That in and of itself is HORRIBLE selling those Monsters as pets!!!  I  battled one of those Monsters attacking the Maymex Hybrid Coconut Palm I had in my front yard a few years ago.  It took me a couple of weeks of fighting it to come up out of the ground hole it made adjacent to my palm.  I flooded the hole for several days and put Dawn Dish Soap down in the hole too to help flush it out.  It finally came out of the hole, I think before it started attacking my palm, and I promptly scooped it up with some cardboard, as I recall, took it over to the driveway, looked at it for a minute of too, then STOMPED ON IT with my shoe to KILL IT!!!  I noticed the large quarter size diameter hole next to my palm's trunk.   That is how I knew it was being attacked by one of those.  Over here, they enter the palms from the root zone in the ground adjacent to the trunk and start chewing their way up the center of the trunk towards the bud, from what I understand.  Until, I encountered that one, I did not know they were here in Corpus Christi, but I did know that people encounter them south of here in Rio Grande Valley.

John

[sonoranfans]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:43 PM, Merlyn said:

I'm gonna find out what a triple Alfredii looks like...I hope! 

My guess is that like other palms they will compete for sun, root space, and nutrients so they will be undersized.  That is probably a good thing as a triple though.  I have 3 alfredii planted at the same time ( as3 gallons first divided leaf size) 12 years ago, same fertilizer and florida rain.  There are really big differences in trunk thickness and the only answer is environment.  Triple royals tend to be thin, never saw one as thick as my singles.  With some limitations to the =root systems, you don't want huge trunks and lots of leaves in a triple alfredii, might make it even easier for them to get knocked down in a big wind.  Pictured below are the trunks of my largest and smallest alfredii, both planted as 3 gallons in late 2010.  Alfredii seem more influenced than any of my other palms by things like free root space and sun exposure.  So a triple or double or any alfredii with limited root space or sun is likely going to be a palm of smaller stature.  The leaflets on my largest are over 4' long(50-54 inches), Alfredii can be massive in the trunk at 32"+ thick without leafbases.  I have seen alfredii here in shade older than mine with thin trunks(less than 20" with leafbases so they are adaptive to their environment.

[sonoranfans]

As for the beetles/weevils spreading everywhere, hope they dont establish in habitat too.  Its a pretty glum outlook for palm growers.  I am not a huge fan of using lots of imidacloprid, its nasty stuff for animals and humans too.  I drive around and the palmetto weevil seems to decapitate a couple percent of the bismarckia and even some big royals that the state has installed along highways as well.  Some are not attacked and some are decapitated in short order, sabal palmettos are also getting hit.  I do know that herbivore insects can sense (chemical)stress emissions by plants, that is how they find and consume the weak ones.  It might be that at least some of these species are stressed by their environment.  We try to grow all kinds of palms in many places and when it isnt particularly happy it may emit an attractant.  Weevils destroyed one of my bismarckia 4-5 years ago and continue to leave the other untouched.  The one they attacked just so happened to be in a low wet spot, and we had an irrigation failure(leak) nearby that august when we also saw 21 days of rain in a 23 day span.  Lack of water, too much water, hardness in the soil or high soil pH can all take a toll and create stress in a plant.  My two bizzies were 75' apart but the one in a low spot looked fine until you compared it to the other one which was actually a bit younger and had about 1 1/2 the trunk thickness and more glaucous (waxy) leaves.   What percentage of palm trees are being underwatered or under fed in public landscapes?  

[palmfriend]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:48 PM, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Lars,

I just saw this post of yours.  Those things are HORRIBLE, and they are sold as "pets" there???  That in and of itself is HORRIBLE selling those Monsters as pets!!!  I  battled one of those Monsters attacking the Maymex Hybrid Coconut Palm I had in my front yard a few years ago.  It took me a couple of weeks of fighting it to come up out of the ground hole it made adjacent to my palm.  I flooded the hole for several days and put Dawn Dish Soap down in the hole too to help flush it out.  It finally came out of the hole, I think before it started attacking my palm, and I promptly scooped it up with some cardboard, as I recall, took it over to the driveway, looked at it for a minute of too, then STOMPED ON IT with my shoe to KILL IT!!!  I noticed the large quarter size diameter hole next to my palm's trunk.   That is how I knew it was being attacked by one of those.  Over here, they enter the palms from the root zone in the ground adjacent to the trunk and start chewing their way up the center of the trunk towards the bud, from what I understand.  Until, I encountered that one, I did not know they were here in Corpus Christi, but I did know that people encounter them south of here in Rio Grande Valley.

John

John,

Thank you for your reply! 

The existence of rhinoceros beetles on this island is a well known problem but since livestock farming and sugarcanes - as the main farming businesses - are not really affected, it is 

not seen as a substantial threat. The beetles have their main breeding spots inside the countless dung hills of cow s.... which you will find everywhere on this island. We - with our 

property surrounded by those farms in a more or less close range - are probably threatened by this phenomenon the most... However, I haven't given up yet and it seems that I get 

it slowly back under control. In this context I can't say how much I appreciated @JT in Japan 's hint in the 

thread - that stuff is a "wonder weapon". Cheap but very effective! I think I saved three other Coconut nuciferas while using the Hydrogen Peroxide in combination with my standard

anti-bug insectizide sprays (all of them on natural basis) and that gives me hope. We will see how this will turn out - at the moment I am optimistic!

(PS: The beetles sold at our home center are not excactly the same species but definitely relatives with the same unpleasant habbits.)

 

On 12/9/2022 at 11:35 PM, sonoranfans said:

We grow all kinds of palms in many places and when it isnt particularly happy it may emit an attractant.  Weevils destroyed one of my bismarckia 4-5 years ago and continue to leave the other untouched. 

I really think that this is a very important piece of information. While some palms are probably always threatened by that species, others are attracting their attention only when somehow

under stress. Of course I can't prove it at the moment - it is more or less a guess based on my experiences - but time will tell. I will keep going with my currently (almost) fifty species

and I am pretty sure I will get a picture sometime or other...

 

Lars

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

10 hours ago, palmfriend said:

John,

Thank you for your reply! 

The existence of rhinoceros beetles on this island is a well known problem but since livestock farming and sugarcanes - as the main farming businesses - are not really affected, it is 

not seen as a substantial threat. The beetles have their main breeding spots inside the countless dung hills of cow s.... which you will find everywhere on this island. We - with our 

property surrounded by those farms in a more or less close range - are probably threatened by this phenomenon the most... However, I haven't given up yet and it seems that I get 

it slowly back under control. In this context I can't say how much I appreciated @JT in Japan 's hint in the 

thread - that stuff is a "wonder weapon". Cheap but very effective! I think I saved three other Coconut nuciferas while using the Hydrogen Peroxide in combination with my standard

anti-bug insectizide sprays (all of them on natural basis) and that gives me hope. We will see how this will turn out - at the moment I am optimistic!

(PS: The beetles sold at our home center are not excactly the same species but definitely relatives with the same unpleasant habbits.)

 

I really think that this is a very important piece of information. While some palms are probably always threatened by that species, others are attracting their attention only when somehow

under stress. Of course I can't prove it at the moment - it is more or less a guess based on my experiences - but time will tell. I will keep going with my currently (almost) fifty species

and I am pretty sure I will get a picture sometime or other...

 

Lars

 

You are welcome, Lars.  I am curious, have the Rhinoceros Beetles always been there, or are they an invasive species.  I mean the ones that are in the fields there and attacking the palms?  And if they were introduced, how were they introduced there?

John

[palmfriend]

11 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

You are welcome, Lars.  I am curious, have the Rhinoceros Beetles always been there, or are they an invasive species.  I mean the ones that are in the fields there and attacking the palms?  And if they were introduced, how were they introduced there?

John

Hey John,

good question!

Okinawa was a former trading empire named Ryukyu and I guess this might be the answer. Trading was the main business - partners were China, Japan, Taiwan and Southeast Asia

for centuries - so I guess, that was the way that beetle - officially called Taiwan-Kabuto-mushi - arrived over here a long time ago. It is part of life right now but as mentioned before -

a serious threat only to palms - so no one really cares...except me and may be one or two others over here.

An interesting detail, Miyako is the only island in whole Okinawa without poisonous snakes... - no idea how this hasn't changed with all the historical background but there is 

got to be a reason for this out there... (but as mentioned, I am still not aware about) 

 

regards

 

Lars

 

[sonoranfans]

23 hours ago, palmfriend said:

 

I really think that this is a very important piece of information. While some palms are probably always threatened by that species, others are attracting their attention only when somehow

under stress. Of course I can't prove it at the moment - it is more or less a guess based on my experiences - but time will tell. I will keep going with my currently (almost) fifty species

and I am pretty sure I will get a picture sometime or other...

 

Lars

 

This is a well known function of many plants.  US research is aimed mostly at crops but etymologists study wild plant too and it is the same.  Sick plants attract herbivore insects and some even attract herbivore insect predators.  It is the natural evolution of the food chain.  I don't know of any studies on palms, but extending a hypothesis from what is known of other plants has a greater degree of certainty.  Terpenoids and other signaling molecules can be attractants for pollinators and a different set of terpenoids are known to attract these heribvore insects and in some cases their herbivore insect predators.  I am pretty confident that with ~20 bismarckia in the neighborhood, mine in the flooded area was the only one attacked by weevils.  Half a mile up the street there is a headless sabal palmetto in a large stand of palmettos.  Trying to explaing why they are attacked just two indicuduals among so many opportunities nearby fits the well knownl function of other plant/insect foodchains,  Insects are attracted to volatile emissions, sometimes repelled by them, sometimes their reproduction is wiped by emissions (ovicides).  Plants even adapt to their local insect predators over time (many generations).  The ones that survive may need to adapt to find the way to protect themselves in that environment.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, palmfriend said:

Hey John,

good question!

Okinawa was a former trading empire named Ryukyu and I guess this might be the answer. Trading was the main business - partners were China, Japan, Taiwan and Southeast Asia

for centuries - so I guess, that was the way that beetle - officially called Taiwan-Kabuto-mushi - arrived over here a long time ago. It is part of life right now but as mentioned before -

a serious threat only to palms - so no one really cares...except me and may be one or two others over here.

An interesting detail, Miyako is the only island in whole Okinawa without poisonous snakes... - no idea how this hasn't changed with all the historical background but there is 

got to be a reason for this out there... (but as mentioned, I am still not aware about) 

 

regards

 

Lars

 

Okay.  Thanks for the explanation.  So, it sounds like they may be native to Asia, and I guess that may be how they got over here too is through trade.

John

[palmfriend]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:43 PM, sonoranfans said:

This is a well known function of many plants.  US research is aimed mostly at crops but etymologists study wild plant too and it is the same.  Sick plants attract herbivore insects and some even attract herbivore insect predators.  It is the natural evolution of the food chain.  I don't know of any studies on palms, but extending a hypothesis from what is known of other plants has a greater degree of certainty.  Terpenoids and other signaling molecules can be attractants for pollinators and a different set of terpenoids are known to attract these heribvore insects and in some cases their herbivore insect predators.  I am pretty confident that with ~20 bismarckia in the neighborhood, mine in the flooded area was the only one attacked by weevils.  Half a mile up the street there is a headless sabal palmetto in a large stand of palmettos.  Trying to explaing why they are attacked just two indicuduals among so many opportunities nearby fits the well knownl function of other plant/insect foodchains,  Insects are attracted to volatile emissions, sometimes repelled by them, sometimes their reproduction is wiped by emissions (ovicides).  Plants even adapt to their local insect predators over time (many generations).  The ones that survive may need to adapt to find the way to protect themselves in that environment.

Thank you for your reply and this explanation! I am just not involved (educated) enough in this matter to make such a statement but it seems very logical. When younger I often watched

documentaries about wild life and the common thread was always that sick, old or injured animals are those who attract predators the first. Therefore it makes absolute sense that this (food

chain) pattern exists in the world of plants (palms) as well.

 

Thanks again -

 

Lars

 

[sonoranfans]

37 minutes ago, palmfriend said:

Thank you for your reply and this explanation! I am just not involved (educated) enough in this matter to make such a statement but it seems very logical. When younger I often watched

documentaries about wild life and the common thread was always that sick, old or injured animals are those who attract predators the first. Therefore it makes absolute sense that this (food

chain) pattern exists in the world of plants (palms) as well.

 

Thanks again -

 

Lars

 

Its even more amazing than I described above, plants of the same species signal each other (using volatile molecules) when the herbivore predators have arrived, and the group increases the production of  volatile repellents and attractants to predators of the herbivore insects.  But plants in each geographic area often emit different volatiles to repel pests local to the area.  For example native plants may emit the repellent molecule A, but non natives may not, and are therefore attacked and killed.  Weakened plants do not emit their normal protective volatiles that would usually defend it, as their sickness has disrupted homeostasis(balance in plant functions).  Plants adapt, survival of  the fittest, and often the adaption takes even scores or hundreds of generations for the change in genetics that allows different defenses.  I have read a lot of peer reviewed research in this area for my job, its interesting stuff.   The herbivore predators adapt as well so they learn the smells of sick plants and it becomes part of their own survival mechanism.

[Cindy Adair]

Glad to see your new plantings Lars!

The palms I posted last March in this topic to show an example of beetle damage never lost a spear and look healthy at the moment. However I predict more attacks in April or May.
 

Although the link below is not the newest article on rhino beetles I found it quite interesting.

I probably have a few months of reprieve as we shift into a relatively dry season here. 

I am trying to learn all I can.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022201117300289