NO STUPID QUESTIONS: A thread for those less experienced

[jaredthesir]

I wanted to start a thread for those who may be newer to palms, or maybe are not from a palmy place (like me). I have always been interested in palms but have recently become obsessed with them enough that I am considering moving south when I’m done with school. This site has allowed me to learn so much, but there are some things I wonder about that might be too every day for most to generally be discussed. You all have so much insight and I am sure there are others who are as curious about palms as I am, and maybe you can help clear things up.

I’ll start: Why do some wild sabal palmettos have no boot jacks while others have them all the way up the trunk, even if they are both pretty mature?

PS: I am still pretty new to actually posting here so if this kind of post is against the general guidelines or otherwise unwanted, let me know. Thanks!

Edited March 18, 2022 by jaredthesir

[kinzyjr]

11 minutes ago, jaredthesir said:

I’ll start: Why do some wild sabal palmettos have no boot jacks while others have them all the way up the trunk, even if they are both pretty mature?

Most likely genetic variation and environmental factors.  Some people also shave them off for a cleaner look in the landscape here.  In my case, I like the more robust, booted types as they allow epiphytes to grow.

[jaredthesir]

10 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Most likely genetic variation and environmental factors.  Some people also shave them off for a cleaner look in the landscape here.  In my case, I like the more robust, booted types as they allow epiphytes to grow.

Thanks! I think I like them more when they are shaved, unless it is more of a thick garden. Then I think the non-manicured look is better as it showcases a more natural phenotype.

[Little Tex]

I have one, How come some large Robusta seem to drop their boots?

same with filifera, and why do filibusta keep theirs?

[jaredthesir]

29 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

I have one, How come some large Robusta seem to drop their boots?

That’s a good question too. I don’t know but I suspect it is similar to what kinzyjr said about sabals, plus robustas are so tall and skinny that they can really move in the wind, I bet that contributes to deteriorating the boot jacks. Again I don’t know for sure I’m just locking in my answer before someone who really knows answers

[spike]

54 minutes ago, jaredthesir said:

That’s a good question too. I don’t know but I suspect it is similar to what kinzyjr said about sabals, plus robustas are so tall and skinny that they can really move in the wind, I bet that contributes to deteriorating the boot jacks. Again I don’t know for sure I’m just locking in my answer before someone who really knows answers

From what I've seen on Washingtonias the younger they are the more they don't like dropping. Trimming also contributes to it, there's less weight so they don't drop as easily. Just my two grains of salt

[Jimhardy]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

I have one, How come some large Robusta seem to drop their boots?

same with filifera, and why do filibusta keep theirs?

What I noticed out in Arizona was that the Pure Filifera and Robusta lost the boots early while the hybrids held them quite a while.

[GoatLockerGuns]

2 hours ago, jaredthesir said:

boot jacks

Ok...this one might actually be a stupid question...what is a "boot jack?"

[jaredthesir]

31 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Ok...this one might actually be a stupid question...what is a "boot jack?"

No stupid questions here.

It is the bases frequently seen on the trunks of palmettos and other similar palms. Sometimes they can be quite long and spiky looking. I am not sure if boot jack is widely used or not, or if it only refers to palmettos, but I have seen them referred to as both boot jacks or just boots.

Heres a wild sabal with shells on the bootjacks, which I have seen myself on vacation in Sanibel, so it must be pretty common for people to due that I assume.

[Little Tex]

9 minutes ago, jaredthesir said:

It is the bases frequently seen on the trunks of palmettos and other similar palms. Sometimes they can be quite long and spiky looking. I am not sure if boot jack is widely used or not, or if it only refers to palmettos, but I have seen them referred to as both boot jacks or just boots.

I think you missed an important part, they are the dead spears from the leaves split as the trunk grows

[jaredthesir]

6 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

I think you missed an important part, they are the dead spears from the leaves split as the trunk grows

Absolutely. Thats what I meant by bases (leaf bases) but should have made myself more clear!!

 

Edit: wait people do call those leaf bases right XD

Edited March 19, 2022 by jaredthesir

[Merlyn]

I have a stupid question.  Why did my Licuala Grandis die after it fell over in a storm and was left bone dry for 3 weeks in the August heatwave/drought? 

(I can come up with dumber questions if you like...  )

[GoatLockerGuns]

13 hours ago, jaredthesir said:

wait people do call those leaf bases right

I think you are referring to the bases of the petioles?

[jaredthesir]

1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I think you are referring to the bases of the petioles?

Yes I am. I don’t know why I called them leaves when I literally know what a petiole is… kinda embarrassing 

[DoomsDave]

19 hours ago, jaredthesir said:

I wanted to start a thread for those who may be newer to palms, or maybe are not from a palmy place (like me). I have always been interested in palms but have recently become obsessed with them enough that I am considering moving south when I’m done with school. This site has allowed me to learn so much, but there are some things I wonder about that might be too every day for most to generally be discussed. You all have so much insight and I am sure there are others who are as curious about palms as I am, and maybe you can help clear things up.

I’ll start: Why do some wild sabal palmettos have no boot jacks while others have them all the way up the trunk, even if they are both pretty mature?

PS: I am still pretty new to actually posting here so if this kind of post is against the general guidelines or otherwise unwanted, let me know. Thanks!

Nice to meet you and welcome! After decades of this Palm madness I can say that sometimes the more you think you know the less you actually do. 

Sometimes.

For what it’s worth, I left Cleveland Ohio a long while back and don’t regret it for a nanosecond.

[JohnAndSancho]

What constitutes trunking? 

 

My luck with separating Kentias isn't great, but what about repotting one if the other 3 died? Should I just repot it as is, or try to remove the roots from the dead ones? I'm sure it's a tangled mess. 

 

Do palms push themselves out of pots when they're rootbound or did I just drastically underpot some of my green homies? 

 

How big should I go with repotting? My Queen and Majesty are stupid rootbound in a 3g pot, my C. Cataractarum and C. Benezeii are stupid rootbound in 5g, and my Washy - from what I've read, they can't be overpotted. Also have a Butia x Lyto and i think it needs 5g minimum as its busting out of a 2g. Spindle is busting out of a 2g. 

 

The only perlite I could find locally has Miracle Gro in it. Is this safe to mix in palm soil? The bag has been on my porch unopened since August. 

[DoomsDave]

8 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

What constitutes trunking? 

 

My luck with separating Kentias isn't great, but what about repotting one if the other 3 died? Should I just repot it as is, or try to remove the roots from the dead ones? I'm sure it's a tangled mess. 

 

Do palms push themselves out of pots when they're rootbound or did I just drastically underpot some of my green homies? 

 

How big should I go with repotting? My Queen and Majesty are stupid rootbound in a 3g pot, my C. Cataractarum and C. Benezeii are stupid rootbound in 5g, and my Washy - from what I've read, they can't be overpotted. Also have a Butia x Lyto and i think it needs 5g minimum as its busting out of a 2g. Spindle is busting out of a 2g. 

 

The only perlite I could find locally has Miracle Gro in it. Is this safe to mix in palm soil? The bag has been on my porch unopened since August. 

Dang when you ask questions you don’t mess around!

For the first, trunking is when the palm’s stem reaches mature width and starts to grow much faster. Usually. You see it when “wood” forms, be it brown, gray, white, black, etc. It marks a milestone in the palm’s development. The next big one is making seeds.

For the second, I’d just repot along with the dead, which rot and add to the soil.

For the third, usually not, but how about a picture? Sounds like a weird situation.

For the fourth, that’s multiple questions and answers, but the general rule is “the next size up.”  Sounds like two more sizes should work in the situation you posit, since those are all “rooty” palms.

For the fifth, I’d say be prepared to order from somewhere online (much as I hate doing that). I think the plant food adds to the cost and you’re better off just getting a big bag, or two or three, of plain coarse perlite since I think you’ll use it up.

Hope this helps. 

[Little Tex]

I have a stupid question

How come when I went into the woods, dug up a 5 gallon sabal minor, left it bare root in a Walmart grocery bag for a day, trim its roots and shoved it in a one gallon and didn't water it for a day, it died a week later?

[JLoweCSU]

I have a few queen palms in the back yard of my new house that I think need attention. I recently removed the stakes and ties that I think were essentially strangling the trees, preventing them from growing properly.

My primary question/concern now is whether or not I skin/remove the old fronds because, as of now, no trunk is visible. If so, how do I know when I’ve removed enough?

 What else should I consider to boost their health?

Thanks!

[jaredthesir]

I have a majesty palm (potted of course) that I have managed to keep alive for 2 years. I was wondering if it’s okay that I left multiple palms in the same pot, since that’s how they came. I know that’s not how majesty’s normally grow, and they will grow more slowly that way, but obviously they will never reach maturity in MI anyway. Is it something that would kill them though?

[Merlyn]

25 minutes ago, JLoweCSU said:

I have a few queen palms in the back yard of my new house that I think need attention. I recently removed the stakes and ties that I think were essentially strangling the trees, preventing them from growing properly.

My primary question/concern now is whether or not I skin/remove the old fronds because, as of now, no trunk is visible. If so, how do I know when I’ve removed enough?

 What else should I consider to boost their health?

The ties do look like they left dents in the "trunk" a few feet above ground.  It might have restricted growth somewhat, since the new spears need to grow from close to ground level all the way through the restriction.  Now that the area is loose, I would just leave it.  You can remove the old fronds down to the base if you want, but it'll be tough to snip through them with shears...and somewhat risky to use a box cutter knife.  It shouldn't hurt the palm to leave them until they are loose by hand.

I live in swampy Floriduh, so I'm not sure how much water they need there.  But I'd suggest water and a "palm special" type of fertilizer.  It looks like they are pretty nitrogen/potassium deficient.  A handful of good 8-4-8 (or similar) fertilizer per palm is a good start, and follow up in 2 months with another dose.

[JohnAndSancho]

It's possible that I just drastically underpotted, or soil settling or whatever but I def don't remember leaving this much root exposed and all of the aforementioned palms have def put on weight since I bought them. I also know they're all hella rootbound since they're all in "bottom watering" pots and all of the water reservoirs are full of roots that have grown through the drainage holes. The spindle behind my Lytos is the worst of the bunch, but everything I previously mentioned as underpotted is bad, too. My Majesty is even at an angle now. 

 

As far as the Miracle Gro perlite, is there any harm in using it? I bought it last summer. From my dumbass newbie POV, the only thing I can think of is I'd use a lot less to prevent root burning, or feed it to my Monstera. 

[JohnAndSancho]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:06 PM, Merlyn said:

I have a stupid question.  Why did my Licuala Grandis die after it fell over in a storm and was left bone dry for 3 weeks in the August heatwave/drought? 

(I can come up with dumber questions if you like...  )

Why did my Licuala and Chambeyronia die when I ordered them from a bare root shipper in January? 

 

Why does my Washy suffer from cold damage when I left it outside so I could take a picture of it in snow? 

 

Why is my Chihuahua fat when I used to feed him half of a chicken breast for dinner?

 

Why does my old truck run like crap when I didn't start it for a year? 

[DoomsDave]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:41 AM, Little Tex said:

I have a stupid question

How come when I went into the woods, dug up a 5 gallon sabal minor, left it bare root in a Walmart grocery bag for a day, trim its roots and shoved it in a one gallon and didn't water it for a day, it died a week later?

This question rocks! In the greater context of palm craziness!

Actually I don’t have a good answer. I have a kind of counter question: why can I dig out a seedling queen palm, leave it in a 99 cents only store sack for a couple days, plant it in a pot, and it grows. Eventually to like 30 feet (I gave it to a lady) in another garden?

But…. Sabals are easy to germinate but hard to dig and move, especially in the wild. If you can, try to dig it gradually, I.e., a big rootball over a month, start 6” deep, then go down a foot and stick it in the biggest pot you can find, and keep it moist and out of the sun and wind. 
 

Also see my PM.

[JohnAndSancho]

What's the difference in fertilizer and palm food? I have slow release Carl Pool 12-4-2 and some 4-4-4 organic palm food that Sancho thinks smells delicious. I also have some liquid 20-20-20 orchid mist that I bought to try and save a dying Licuala. I can't use the 4-4-4 on anything indoors that Sancho can reach. 

 

Also why am I a Kentia murderer? They'll look fine one day - the next, the oldest spear is dried out and they're in the dumpster a week later. 

 

Also, since I've gotta do a lot repotting, and since y'all have taught me to amend my own soil - is there any harm in adding mosquito dunks to my potting mix, since all of my palms are potted? What about adding slow release or the palm food to it? I mix my soil in a Home Depot bucket, I use cheap garden soil and add ReptiBark, LECA, and overpriced Turface to it. 

 

Do y'all think my Chamaedora Benzeii would handle a transition from Patio Squad to Office Squad? I'd like to stick it on top of my office fridge. The whole turnstile thing (see my videos on YouTube under dbljzzl) is getting old and it's only getting bigger. It's been on my patio in full shade unless we get a freeze, then it gets dragged inside. It's currently in a 5g pot and ballpark 4 ft from the soil to the top of the newest frond. It'll get some indirect light from a giant south facing window that gets blasted with full sun, so - I don't see it being terribly different conditions than it gets now, other than less humidity and dryer air. 

[PalmsandLiszt]

It just occurred to me that I have a stupid question I have wondering about since I signed up here. Brace yourself, this is a really stupid question:

What is the difference between 'Upvote' and 'Like'?

[Kim]

6 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

It just occurred to me that I have a stupid question I have wondering about since I signed up here. Brace yourself, this is a really stupid question:

What is the difference between 'Upvote' and 'Like'?

Under your name you have a +43. Those are "upvotes" which are tallied, while "likes" are not. (Correction: both are tallied.) The more "upvotes," the stronger the "reputation" on the board. (If you hover over your +43, you can see "Member's total reputation.") I will give an upvote to a post or comment that offers solid information or offers a really fine photo of a well-grown palm or that expresses those little golden nuggets of wisdom gained from experience. I see it as a vote of appreciation, while a "like" is more like "thanks for posting" or "nice photo." However all of that is open to the interpretation of the person clicking the buttons.

[Little Tex]

Likes count toward reputation.

 

[Kim]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:25 PM, Little Tex said:

I think you missed an important part, they are the dead spears from the leaves split as the trunk grows

"Spear" refers to the newly emerging but not yet open fronds coming from the growing point within the heart of the palm trunk. It literally looks pointed, like a spear.

[Kim]

16 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Likes count toward reputation.

I stand corrected! I just counted up "likes" and "upvotes" for jaredthesir who started this thread -- because he is new, thus has only a few posts, making it a simple process -- and yes indeed, 10 likes and 4 upvotes give him a +14 reputation. 

But I'm going to stick with my reasons for differentiating a like from an upvote! 

[Little Tex]

51 minutes ago, Kim said:

"Spear" refers to the newly emerging but not yet open fronds coming from the growing point within the heart of the palm trunk. It literally looks pointed, like a spear.

Sorry, I meant frond, But when I went to edit it it had been over an hour :/

[Little Tex]

I have one, Can you plant palms on public property, with the only consequence being the possible removal? People seem to do it all the time but I don't quite understand the risks associated with it.

[PalmsandLiszt]

15 hours ago, Kim said:

Under your name you have a +43. Those are "upvotes" which are tallied, while "likes" are not. (Correction: both are tallied.) The more "upvotes," the stronger the "reputation" on the board. (If you hover over your +43, you can see "Member's total reputation.") I will give an upvote to a post or comment that offers solid information or offers a really fine photo of a well-grown palm or that expresses those little golden nuggets of wisdom gained from experience. I see it as a vote of appreciation, while a "like" is more like "thanks for posting" or "nice photo." However all of that is open to the interpretation of the person clicking the buttons.

Ah, so essentially there's no difference. In some internet fora an upvote moves a helpful post up the thread, making it more visible, or something like that. I had noticed that they both contribute to reputation, so I couldn't see the reason for having both there. But there is no reason, it's just random redundancy for people to interpret as they will. Fair enough!

Thanks for your reply.

[spike]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:43 PM, DoomsDave said:

This question rocks! In the greater context of palm craziness!

Actually I don’t have a good answer. I have a kind of counter question: why can I dig out a seedling queen palm, leave it in a 99 cents only store sack for a couple days, plant it in a pot, and it grows. Eventually to like 30 feet (I gave it to a lady) in another garden?

But…. Sabals are easy to germinate but hard to dig and move, especially in the wild. If you can, try to dig it gradually, I.e., a big rootball over a month, start 6” deep, then go down a foot and stick it in the biggest pot you can find, and keep it moist and out of the sun and wind. 
 

Also see my PM.

ha ha, the power of 99 cents stores. They also have great deals on ugly flowerpots!

Edited March 30, 2022 by spike

[JohnAndSancho]

Can I bump my non sarcastic questions about palm food vs palm fertilizer and adding mosquito dunks to soil? And using the Miracle Gro perlite as opposed to normal perlite, as it's been sitting on my patio for a year? 

 

Also, random. Years ago I tried to grow something illegal where I lived, and I was told to add chunks of a car wash sponge and chunks of fish to the soil. I never followed through, and I'm assuming this (at least the sponge) is bad advice for palms that need to drain well, but - thoughts? 

 

Also also - I need to repot some A. Tuckerii seedlings that are I'm ballparking are 2 years old, and I plan on giving them to employees who are much less knowledgeable than me. Should I add palm food (4-4-4) or slow release Carl Pool to their soil? Or just repot?

[spike]

That made me think of something, how good is Grow More palm food? I'm considering getting it. And what's the best type of fertilizer? (liquid, pellet, spikes, etc) 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:15 PM, jaredthesir said:

I am not sure if boot jack is widely used or not, or if it only refers to palmettos, but I have seen them referred to as both boot jacks or just boots.

According to the University of Florida Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, "In Florida lore, [the] frond base protrusions [of Sabal palmetto] came to be known as boots by Spanish Conquistadors who used them in lieu of shoehorns or, as another story goes, the U.S. Army hung their boots on them during the Seminole Wars to keep snakes and other critters from crawling in their shoes at night." See: https://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/lafayetteco/2017/08/23/sabal-palmetto-florida-state-tree/

[NOT A TA]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:11 PM, Little Tex said:

I have one, Can you plant palms on public property, with the only consequence being the possible removal? People seem to do it all the time but I don't quite understand the risks associated with it.

I've been on both sides of this topic.

The risk is that you may be arrested for vandalism depending on local laws and what/where you plant. There's a big "gray area" depending on what and where you do things.  Attempt to plant a 6' Blue Agave on the lawn of the town hall at 2 in the afternoon and you'll probably be speaking with a LEO within minutes.  Plant a few seeds 10' off the side of a deserted rural road and likely nothing will happen.

There are a LOT of things to consider which many people may not think of which can be considered vandalism.  While there many factors to consider here's a few. Are you creating additional maintenance expenses? Are there underground utilities you may be unintentionally be tampering with or are creating future additional expenses for utility companies or public maintenance departments?  Will the planting become a public hazard by limiting line of sight for motor vehicles or interfering with utilities? Will the planting hinder emergency services such as prevent fire hydrant use, emergency vehicle access etc.? Will plants eventually block street lights?

Best thing to do is ask if you have planned is OK with the gov. dept responsible for the area.

Here certain maintenance departments have so many people do it they have tags printed ahead of time they place on offending plants when they see new plantings.

 

[Little Tex]

yes, where I live there are a lot of Sabal Maxicana, Palmetto, CIDP, Filifera, Robusta, Butia just in highway medians, I dont know who did that, but It got me curious

[Mia]

Hello there, i am also new in this palm world. 
in 2 months i am already addicted to palms,Washington robustas specially ❤️