T. princeps germination

[Fallen Munk]

I'm starting a thread to document germination of a shipment of T. princeps that arrived from Garry at coldplant.com about a month ago.  These seeds were collected from the Stone Gate in China.  I've discovered that typically these seeds take quite a long time to germinate compared to other Trachycarpus and they tend to germinate over a long period of time.  Because of this I'm trying something different.  I will be attempting to jumpstart germination in a sealed jar by keeping them moist and providing a day/night temperature cycle.

I kept them in the refrigerator for a month, then soaked them for two days before removing the fruit.  They have been rinsed and drained.  I will put them in a reptile incubator set for 85F day and 68F night in 12 hour cycles.  I will be rinsing them every two days and watching for the first sign of the embryo at which time I will put each jumpstarted seed on damp sterile coco peat.  For now we wait.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Your method for germination seems to a very practical one. I wish you good luck with these.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Las Palmas Norte

[Fallen Munk]

Four days later.

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 days? Nice! 

[steve617]

Wow keep us updated

[BeyondTheGarden]

@Fallen Munk Do you have them in any type of growing media or are you just keeping them moist in a sealed container? 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[Fallen Munk]

6 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

@Fallen Munk Do you have them in any type of growing media or are you just keeping them moist in a sealed container? 

Just the jar as pictured.  When they pop a button I'm potting them up in a tree pot and putting them on my front deck.  So far just those two.

[ZPalms]

Sales for reptile incubator are about increase 

Edited March 26, 2022 by ZPalms

[Fallen Munk]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

Sales for reptile incubator are about increase 

Haha!  I made mine.  It's a refrigerator shell that I repurposed with a programmable thermostat and some light bulbs.

[ZPalms]

3 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Haha!  I made mine.  It's a refrigerator shell that I repurposed with a programmable thermostat and some light bulbs.

Oh wow! that's pretty impressive, I was just googling reptile incubator but they are all so expensive so that's really neat!

[Fallen Munk]

52 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Oh wow! that's pretty impressive, I was just googling reptile incubator but they are all so expensive so that's really neat!

I have two of them left over from my lizard breeding days.  Simple to construct.  All you need is an insulated box, like a broken wine fridge fit with a programmable thermostat and a couple of old school light bulbs.  Cake.

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Fallen Munk said:

I have two of them left over from my lizard breeding days.  Simple to construct.  All you need is an insulated box, like a broken wine fridge fit with a programmable thermostat and a couple of old school light bulbs.  Cake.

I honestly can't even imagine what that probably looks like, I can't even wrap my head around how it works 

[WSimpson]

Are those going to be more blue , do you think , or greenish ? I wanted a bluish one but I think I have the greener one . 

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Will Simpson

[BeyondTheGarden]

You don't have to put them in an enclosed box, you could just provide bottom heat.  Heat mat or on top of a low-powered grow light.  You'd just have to tinker with it and make sure it's not getting too hot.  

[Luis Arroyo]

4 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

Are those going to be more blue , do you think , or greenish ? I wanted a bluish one but I think I have the greener one . 

 

Looks beautiful. 

Might be a Trachycarpus Nova aka Green Princeps,  they  grow near the blue "True" Princeps. I have 2 of these.

The 2 big ones in the center of photo.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Luis Arroyo

[Fallen Munk]

6 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

You don't have to put them in an enclosed box, you could just provide bottom heat.  Heat mat or on top of a low-powered grow light.  You'd just have to tinker with it and make sure it's not getting too hot.  

FWIW, I've had poor results with trachycarpus and bottom heat.  As in zero percent.

[BeyondTheGarden]

I mean from a thermodynamic standpoint it makes no difference where the heat originates.  I suspect that problems from bottom heat are due to overheating.  When I stick a temp probe on my heatmat and then put a baggie of seed+media over it, the temp can get over 100f.  Heat management is something that requires some tinkering and monitoring.  Last year when I was germinating seeds I ended up putting a hand towel inbetween the heat mat and the temp probe/seed baggie.  It reduced the temp by about 10f. 

If you're heating with lights, you're using radiation instead of conduction which is a slower heat-transfer process, and the seeds probably don't see as high of temperatures.  

[Fallen Munk]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:26 PM, Jesse PNW said:

I mean from a thermodynamic standpoint it makes no difference where the heat originates.  I suspect that problems from bottom heat are due to overheating.  When I stick a temp probe on my heatmat and then put a baggie of seed+media over it, the temp can get over 100f.  Heat management is something that requires some tinkering and monitoring.  Last year when I was germinating seeds I ended up putting a hand towel inbetween the heat mat and the temp probe/seed baggie.  It reduced the temp by about 10f. 

If you're heating with lights, you're using radiation instead of conduction which is a slower heat-transfer process, and the seeds probably don't see as high of temperatures.  

It matters because bottom heat can get hot spots and heat gradients and is usually not thermostatically regulated.  You won't get that in an incubator because it has a fan and is thermostatically controlled to a quarter of a degree.  Yes, to your point heat is heat, however it is only as good as your ability to regulate it evenly and accurately which is simple with a thermostat.  

[Fallen Munk]

One other thing I'll mention about heat mats that we learned in the reptile industry.  When analyzed with infrared, they are horribly uneven with hot and cold spots.  So even if you were to use one with a thermostat, where you placed the temperature probe may not be ideal.  That's why experienced reptile breeders won't use them.  Too many lizards with burn spots.

[zimm]

What do you use for heat then?  Infrared elements?  

[Fallen Munk]

12 hours ago, zimm said:

What do you use for heat then?  Infrared elements?  

Incandescent light bulbs.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Any update on these?  

[Fallen Munk]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:39 AM, Jesse PNW said:

Any update on these?  

Yes.  They are popping roots so well that I decided to leave them in the jars.  I did the same with my Bulgaria hybrids and they are really taking off.  I'll take a photo when it looks like a jar full of ramen noodles.  By far the easiest quickest way to germinate trachycarpus that I've tried so far.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Very nice.  I'm plagiarizing your work, I've got princeps and fortunei seeds in the fridge.  

Dang it, now I'm hungry for ramen.  

[Fallen Munk]

On 4/9/2022 at 11:39 AM, Jesse PNW said:

Any update on these?  

Current status.  Jar of noodles.

[BeyondTheGarden]

I love that.  No dirty media, just moisture and temp managent. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. 

[steve617]

That's impressive 

[Fallen Munk]

3 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I love that.  No dirty media, just moisture and temp managent. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. 

Thanks!  I figured it worked for bean sprouts so why not trachycarpus?  Just got to rinse them every couple of days, so far so good.

[Fallen Munk]

Chow mein noodles.