Growing a Canary Island Date Palm in New York City

[UK_Palms]

5 hours ago, jwitt said:

Well, looks like proof a colder zone(,Poland-7a) than (7b)NYC can grow them with protection.  Who would have thought?

If dryness is NYC concern with CIDP, an increase of the diurnal temperature would provide the answer. Many way to do this,  both passive or active. 

 

I never said it was impossible with a sophisticated shelter. I am merely stressing the extent that you will have to go to in order to get a CIDP through winter in a wet-cold 7b, especially once it starts gaining size. Look at that big, heated shelter the guy in Poland is putting up each winter (complete with an underground heating radiator system). That is a huge undertaking, both physically and financially! But where there is a will, there is obviously a way, if you are prepared to go to those lengths. For many people such a setup will just not be practical.

And once it becomes too big to protect and too inconvenient (assuming they manage to grow it to that point), it is gong to get taken out by the winters there. A CIDP in Poland or NYC is ultimately going to be on borrowed time either way. You will only have it for as long as you can protect it. And that protection has to be on point. Something nobody in NYC appears to have been able to do, as of yet (hence why there isn't any there). But as I have previously said, I would love to see someone in NYC get a CIDP to a half decent size!

 

4 hours ago, Subtropical LIS said:

You not really making any sense?

If a CIDP were covered - how would in “not get through winter”? How do people in Canada, Russia, Poland…etc.  get palms through winter? How do they get cactus and other dry climate plants through the wet, cloudy winters of the UK? Additionally, I think we covered the fact that in lower latitude climates (40 latitude south), with long hot summers and intense sun angles for several months… rainfall and humidity have less of an impact on CIDP. We KNOW this because CIDP grow by the thousands in the hot and wet subtropical southeastern USA from Houston to Charleston, SC with daily summer tropical downpours(I think we covered this already - LOL)

 

As to the climate of NYC (and again, not trying to be mean, here, I mean that truly) …you seem to lack the basic understanding of world climatology.

NYC is not wet and humid year -round. In fact, very dry continental and modified polar air is frequently present for several months from Dec – March. This air is NOT humid…dew points in the teens occur frequently (dew points in the teens are common in the desert, for example). Winter air in NYC is often very dry (skin cracks). Moreover, like many climates between 30 and 40 latitudes, NYC can have periodic episodes of long rainless periods. I’m not up in NYC now - but from what I’ve read, they have had very little rain since September 1^st (2 inches/5 cm in the last 3 months). Right now portions on NYC down through the mid-Atlantic states are DROUGHT (and they were in 2021 as well):

 

 

 

Another factor to consider (and again I’m not trying to mean here – I know the English are sensitive about their climate, just trying to educate), living at the high latitude you live at (52 north), I don’t think you fully appreciate how fast moisture evaporates in lower latitude climates.: In a high latitude climate like the UK, moisture is slow to evaporate. Not only is sunshine intensity relatively weak - but the modestly cool summer average high temperatures also slow evaporation.

In lower latitude, hot summer climates the situation is the reverse - the sun is so strong and temp as so hot, that moisture is quickly evaporated. Consider that locations on the Atlantic coast from Miami to NYC have heavy summer thundershowers almost daily, when the rain pours down like a monsoon in India (lol), yet with an hour the ground is nearly dry as steam rises from the pavement (and the temp moves toward 29 – 34 C again). A CIDP in NYC would have no problem with too much moisture in NYC in summer, for the same reason they don’t in Orlando, New Orleans, or Charleston, SC.  

Finally, that is up to the OP if he/she is or wants to construct a structure and what type. However, my guess is (at least in NYC), one would not have to heat a shelter with anything more than C9 Christmas lights (about $15 at most local stores - lol). I do this for mangos in Florida and my Robusta in CT, and it works fine. The financial costs involved would be minimal…since any palm shelter in NYC would only be used about 90 days a year. If people in Canada in zone 5 can enjoy Washingtonia and Windmill palms for many years, I don’t know why someone down in zone 7b couldn’t do the same.

For some strange reason...you seem super angry that someone is growing palms in NYC.  Anyone can see that. I suppose that is a result of living at 52 N...less than a 1000 miles from the arctic circle.  I know you are heading into a tough time of year up there (the gloomy climate makes angry people.)...but don't take it out on the OP or the rest of us "mate".

 

I could fire back at you and keep the heated exchange going between us, but it will not be constructive in any way for the OP. Some people will want to see us get in a back and forth, for entertainment, but others will be getting annoyed by it, so I will try to keep things civil now. As I said, the OP doesn't gain anything from us arguing. I certainly don't get anything out of it and I doubt you do either. So I will heed Jonathans advice and chill.

I have certainly not taken anything out on the OP either, which you suggest. I have tried to provide relevant input in my previous comments, as have some members from the PNW. Both the UK and the PNW have areas which are the upper limits for where CIDP can be grown anywhere, so our input is invaluable on what factors take out CIDP's in relation to temperatures and the wet-cold. We know what parts they will grow in exactly, and what parts they won't, even with limited protection. The bottom line is that you will need an exceptional and sophisticated shelter to get small CIDP's to grow on in NYC. Maybe the OP will be able to step up his protection a bit this year with better heating and airflow?

I am also aware that New York has just had the driest November on record, hence the drought issue currently. That means very little however against climatology. We only had 0.2 inches of rainfall here in June, but now everywhere is a soaking wet boggy mess after a very wet September and October. Likewise, the 9 month period from November 2021 to August 2022 was record dry, however the 6 month period from October 2023 - March 2024 was the wettest 6 month period on record here. So it will always flip between wet and dry periods. That doesn't change the fact that NYC averages 50 inches of rain a year however. So it is quite wet there.

As for your comment about me supposedly being angry about someone growing palms in NYC, I can assure you that is not the case. Myself and those in the PNW are probably sceptical about the prospects for something like CIDP, given our experiences, but I think most of us (myself included) would love to see a zone pushed CIDP flourishing in NYC with adequate protection. Do I think that is impossible? No. But I do think it is unlikely. I hope the OP can prove me wrong on this.

Anyway, this is what the Polish guy's protection looked like during the first winter his CIDP was in the ground and I believe he planted it at a bigger size than the OP's. You can see that his drainage is very good there as well with lots of gravel. You may need to construct something akin to this setup for winter... @Nomad NYC

 

Compared to now...

 

He heats it with a radiator that is connected via underground pipes directly from the house and keeps it at about 50F during a proper freeze event when it could be almost 0F outside. So that's 50F of heating on the coldest of nights. He also heats the ground to 70F in spring as well once the shelter has come off, to help with it's growth. His annual precipitation is only 24 inches as well, which is less than half of NYC. Just saying. So a few factors to consider here with this zone pushed CIDP.

[Subtropical LIS]

21 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

I never said it was impossible with a sophisticated shelter. I am merely stressing the extent that you will have to go to in order to get a CIDP through winter in a wet-cold 7b, especially once it starts gaining size. Look at that big, heated shelter the guy in Poland is putting up each winter (complete with an underground heating radiator system). That is a huge undertaking, both physically and financially! But where there is a will, there is obviously a way, if you are prepared to go to those lengths. For many people such a setup will just not be practical.

And once it becomes too big to protect and too inconvenient (assuming they manage to grow it to that point), it is gong to get taken out by the winters there. A CIDP in Poland or NYC is ultimately going to be on borrowed time either way. You will only have it for as long as you can protect it. And that protection has to be on point. Something nobody in NYC appears to have been able to do, as of yet (hence why there isn't any there). But as I have previously said, I would love to see someone in NYC get a CIDP to a half decent size!

 

 

I could fire back at you and keep the heated exchange going between us, but it will not be constructive in any way for the OP. Some people will want to see us get in a back and forth, for entertainment, but others will be getting annoyed by it, so I will try to keep things civil now. As I said, the OP doesn't gain anything from us arguing. I certainly don't get anything out of it and I doubt you do either. So I will heed Jonathans advice and chill.

I have certainly not taken anything out on the OP either, which you suggest. I have tried to provide relevant input in my previous comments, as have some members from the PNW. Both the UK and the PNW have areas which are the upper limits for where CIDP can be grown anywhere, so our input is invaluable on what factors take out CIDP's in relation to temperatures and the wet-cold. We know what parts they will grow in exactly, and what parts they won't, even with limited protection. The bottom line is that you will need an exceptional and sophisticated shelter to get small CIDP's to grow on in NYC. Maybe the OP will be able to step up his protection a bit this year with better heating and airflow?

I am also aware that New York has just had the driest November on record, hence the drought issue currently. That means very little however against climatology. We only had 0.2 inches of rainfall here in June, but now everywhere is a soaking wet boggy mess after a very wet September and October. Likewise, the 9 month period from November 2021 to August 2022 was record dry, however the 6 month period from October 2023 - March 2024 was the wettest 6 month period on record here. So it will always flip between wet and dry periods. That doesn't change the fact that NYC averages 50 inches of rain a year however. So it is quite wet there.

As for your comment about me supposedly being angry about someone growing palms in NYC, I can assure you that is not the case. Myself and those in the PNW are probably sceptical about the prospects for something like CIDP, given our experiences, but I think most of us (myself included) would love to see a zone pushed CIDP flourishing in NYC with adequate protection. Do I think that is impossible? No. But I do think it is unlikely. I hope the OP can prove me wrong on this.

Anyway, this is what the Polish guy's protection looked like during the first winter his CIDP was in the ground and I believe he planted it at a bigger size than the OP's. You can see that his drainage is very good there as well with lots of gravel. You may need to construct something akin to this setup for winter... @Nomad NYC

 

Compared to now...

 

He heats it with a radiator that is connected via underground pipes directly from the house and keeps it at about 50F during a proper freeze event when it could be almost 0F outside. So that's 50F of heating on the coldest of nights. He also heats the ground to 70F in spring as well once the shelter has come off, to help with it's growth. His annual precipitation is only 24 inches as well, which is less than half of NYC. Just saying. So a few factors to consider here with this zone pushed CIDP.

Hey…I don’t think it’s constructive either, my aim was not to argue or annoy you. My background is NOT in biology/botany…etc. However, my academic backround/career IS in climate science – and when you pour over climate date for 30 years, it can be difficult to read things that are just not true (and I don’t blame people, honestly, I blame the media that hypes the weather and climate, esp. in the USA).

Your point about the UK being the upper limits for where CIDP can be grown certainly has merit. I would guess that the UK would be the upper limits of where cultivation is possible, so I’m sure your insights are of value. To be honest, while I think CIDP are very attractive palms, I have not really paid attention to them as much as other palms. Here on the East Coast of the USA from Florida to around southeast North Carolina, they are often used in municipal/commercial plantings and not private landscape situations as much, at least to some degree, that really is my only exposure to them.

As to the precipitation in NYC and the effect on CIDP – there are several important things to keep in mind if you want to have true understanding of the character of its climate (and for that matter, most humid-lower middle latitude/subtropical climates in general). I agree, that you're likly experincing a wet - boggy conditions...but the character of precip and what happens after it falls is a bit different up where you are compared to NYC (and most locations below 40 latitude) :

As a side note - the 49 inches is for Central Park (Manhattan)… where the OP is located is out toward Long Island (Queens), where the average 43 inches annually (JFK station).  There is much conjecture as to why – but it seems logical that the UHI and uniqueness of Manhattan Island plays at least some role.

 1) In NYC there is often large swings in annual precip. In a 20-year roll of seasonal precip at JFK…3 years had between 47- and 49-inches years…yet 4 years had between 25 and 35 inches (yellow). Look at even some of the years close to normal precip (40 – 43 inches),  like 1969, 1968, 1955, ect - a single heavy rain event/tropical system saved the year from having below normal precip.  

2)Also, notice WHAT PART OF THE YEAR the heaviest precip (blue) occurred?  Nearly every higher precip month occurred in SUMMER . Often this is the result of tropical storms or their weak dying remnants/or brief heavy convective showers. While the rain from these systems is heavy …the heat and sun evaporate the antecedent precip very quicky.  

 

 This also is what I was trying to get across about the climates of the lower East Coast. NYC is a warm temperate climate on the margins of the subtropics – in a REAL subtropical climate the above effects are much more acute: Look at Orlando – how many months had less then 1 inch of rainfall…and think of what the power of evopration is when there is no rain.

If there is only 1.7 inches of rain in London and the average high is 59 F in April...think of what the rate of evoraporation is in Orlando if there is only 1.7 inches of rain and the average high is 84F in the same month (and the sun is at 28 N latitude instead of 52 N). Plants experince transpiration rates many times higher in lower latitudes than higher latitudes

 

The point, sun intensity and high temps combine to produce extremely high rates of evorpaortion.  Combine that with the wide swings in wet/dry years and the way it which seasonal rainfall is expericed in NYC, and I would guess CIDP would not have any issue with too much moisture (again assuming it is COVERED from Dec – Feb).

As far as the Poland CIDP   ...it's interesting. As a side note, while NYC gets half the annual precip...it also is warmer in winter...and hotter in summer. Using Warsaw (34 F in January) and 78 F in July...while NYC is 39 F in January....and 85 F in July.

 

[Nomad NYC]

Once again, due to the holidays, I again have a bit of time to post some more updates.

Wow, lots of very interesting discussions while I was away from this thread this past month... While I skimmed of them all, unfortunately, I still yet haven't had the time to really read them though right now...

               Anyway, as some of you may know if you followed this thread, this spring, I had decided to replaced my dearly recently departed Canary Island Date palm with a younger, more healthier one in the same location.  But this was after a year long trial growing a similar one in another location , in a little hidden out-of-the way area near my garden that I like to call "Site B" ( just like in the movie,  "Jurassic World", this is kinda my "Isla Sorna " ). This is where I can experiment and test out one in ground ( which I will call "CIDP X " ) before putting another brand new palm out in the open ( aka, my "Isla Nublar"   ) in my yard.  So before I update everyone on this year's NYC Canary Island Date palm replacement, let's all go back in time a year and a half  ago.....To continue where this testing began.

 

Site B Revisited

June 2023 :  New CIDP X planting  seems to be adjusting very well to growing in ground since planted the previous May. 

 

July 2023 :   Looks like CIDP X is thriving in the very hot humid NYC summer weather.

New fronds are appearing.

 

August 2023 :   CIDP X continues to do well, showing no signs of browning due to the lack of rain in the past few weeks.

 

September 2023 :  CIDP X continues to thrive as the weather becomes cooler, and has grown much in the past few months, much more so than it did while previously potbound .

 

October 2023 :   CIDP X continues to do well, as the temperature continues to fall. Soon it the time will come for winter protection.

 

November 2023 :  It is now  winter protection time for CIDP X - 1) Building of the Winter protection box,2)spraying the leaves with anti-desiccant,3)wrapping the palm with C9 Christmas lights plugged into Thermocube( One can tell it was now cold, the lights turned on then), 4)placing of the winter protection box around the palm, 5)sealing base of box with mulch 6) placing of the wooden box support braces, and 7) wrapping up in tarp for added protective layer.

   

    

   

   

         

 

   

   CIDP X appears to be all good to go for the 2024 winter ..

 

This is the end part one - Site B year 2024 update coming next !

 

  

  

 

   

[Las Palmas Norte]

That palm will run out of growth space, assuming you can size it up.

[Nomad NYC]

18 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

That palm will run out of growth space, assuming you can size it up.

"Site B" is just a test planting area,  will most likely transplant CIDP X  to a more sunnier and open place in my yard in the future, most likely near the other one.

[Nomad NYC]

Site B Revisited  :  Part II

April 2024: Winter is finally over and its full on Springtime. Removed winter protection from both CIDPs at around the middle of the month. Removed bindings and C9 lights.

    

   

Unlike my other Canary Island Date Palm, CIDPX has emerged though the winter looking very good and healthy. The success of this planting experiment gives me an idea to maybe replace the other struggling one with a similar bigger, healthier plant in the future. Unfortunately, this would had to be done the following month, when the original main Canary Island Date palm finally perished....

 

June 2024: Start of summer and this palm is continuing to do very well. Will soon begin application of the Palm Gain fertilizer and trimming off old fronds.

   

 

August 2024: Now the height of summer, It's hot and humid in the City, and CIDX has grown a full foot and a half since April.

 

October 2024 :  It's now Autumn, and the weather once again begins to cool. CIDX continues to look good and healthy. But in a few weeks it will be time to prepare for it's Winter Protection.

 

December 2024: The temperature is dropping rapidly, weather is now becoming colder - time to prepare CIDX for the winter, and set up it's protection box.

  

  

 

  

 

This Palm is all set for the Winter now.....Just in time for...

 

 

...Snow.

 

 

After a few days in the upper teens, the temperature here bounced back to nearly 60 degrees Fahrenheit today (December 30th ), but should soon go back to the local seasonal high of 30's, which should be the case for most of the winter ( my thermocubes in the Winter protection boxes should turn on the C9 lights on the palms at 35°F, and off at 45°F ).

   

Again,  it looks it's all good for the winter..

 

To be continued in  Spring 2025

 

[Nomad NYC]

Ok, now back to our regularly scheduled program of the main Canary Island Date Palm ( replacement ) planting!

 As like what I did for the CIDPX over at " Site B ", I will again show the steps to prepare this new CIDP for this NYC  winter.

 

December 2024 :

First, is the spraying the anti-desiccant on the fronds, and the tying up the frond leaves with mini shock cords...

   

 

Next is the putting on the first string layer of C9 lights ( as one can see from  below , the lights have been tuned on by the thermocube, so the outside temperature was already colder than 35 degrees Fahrenheit ).

   

 

The following day I briefly covered the new palm planting with a temporary burlap wrap .

 

And the next day I added another string of C9 lights ( along with support rods ) to the palm.

   

 

So you may ask, where is the old winter protection box for this, and why don't I put  it over the palm during this time? 

 Well, since this new palm is much bigger than the original sickly CIDP,  the next step will be the modifying of the original box to now fit it ( which actually took longer than I expected... ).

 

[Nomad NYC]

Upgrading of the Winter Protection Box

Since I didn't have alot of time and materials to create a totally new winter protection box , I simply took the original box , and just quickly added new sections to it...

   

 

Looks like more thermal insulation paneling is needed for this, but unfortunately,  I had no time to get any more that day..

   

 

 I put on temporary cover on the whole set up, so that I could try to continue to working on it later , when I had more time.

  

 

The following weekend I did managed to get the extra paneling to finish the new box sections, set up the final position,  and applying of mulch at the base for insulation of the ground area.

      

 

Looks pretty comfortable in there , don't cha think? 

 

This upgraded winter protection box should be more than enough room for any new growth of my new replacement CIDP ,  well, at least the next several years.

   

 

 Yes, It may not the best looking winter protection box out there,  but it's totally functional!

  

 

Doing the tarp wrap thing here as well, for added insulation ( used two tarps for both front and back coverage ).  Then all tied to support rods for added stability.

    

 

Good thing I did this just in time, for two weeks ago there was  a brief spell of a cold snap that sent the temperature down to the mid teens ( Fahrenheit ) here in the tri-state area,  so that it actually actually snowed a bit .

    

But I have a feeling that there probably won't be much of any  snow ( if at all  ) for the rest of the winter ..

 

With more than two layers of insulation, mulching, plus added interior heating , that should be more than enough winter protection for my palm - now I just have to patiently wait for spring...

 

Wishing you all a Very Happy New Year 2025!

[Las Palmas Norte]

15 hours ago, Nomad NYC said:

... But I have a feeling that there probably won't be much of any  snow ( if at all  ) for the rest of the winter ..

Awesome. Good to hear your winter is pretty much over. I'd imagine that shelter is just for looks now?

Winter is just under way here and the next 2 months (Jan/Feb) are typically when we can get some periodic wintery days.

[Nomad NYC]

3 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Awesome. Good to hear your winter is pretty much over. I'd imagine that shelter is just for looks now?

Oh, still they are still functional . Just because there won't be snow now much doesn't mean that the weather won't become very cold later on ( we haven't even reached the coldest part of Winter in my neck of the woods,  which is usually around the beginning of February ).  But these past few years it's warmed enough during the winter here that it mostly rains now as well ( NYC  area just recently had  thunderstorms right before New Years ), so If I can also keep them palms dry as possible in the next few months, the better. 

[UK_Palms]

14 hours ago, Nomad NYC said:

Oh, still they are still functional . Just because there won't be snow now much doesn't mean that the weather won't become very cold later on ( we haven't even reached the coldest part of Winter in my neck of the woods,  which is usually around the beginning of February ).  But these past few years it's warmed enough during the winter here that it mostly rains now as well ( NYC  area just recently had  thunderstorms right before New Years ), so If I can also keep them palms dry as possible in the next few months, the better. 

I think LPN was being sarcastic as just about everyone posting on here knows just how cold it can get in NYC in January and February. You had temperatures approaching -12C / 10F a week or two ago and I am seeing a lot of cold in the extended range for you. Nothing extreme by NYC standards, sure, but certainly enough to severely damage an unprotected CIDP.

Take your cover off for next week and see what happens. A week below freezing and lows down to -7C / 19F are coming. Based off the models I would expect -9C / 15F potentially later next week in your neck of the woods. We’ll see just how ‘dry’ that freeze is as well. It looks like you will have snow on Monday, just 4 days from now. 🤔

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 1/1/2025 at 3:26 PM, Nomad NYC said:

Oh, still they are still functional . Just because there won't be snow now much doesn't mean that the weather won't become very cold later on ...

Gotcha. It's nice to be assured snow won't be an issue. It's bad enough dealing with what ever cold you might get.

I think our local forecasters can't or are skeptical about predictions more than a week or so in advance. That's enough warning for me ⚠️. 

[Subtropical LIS]

On 12/31/2024 at 11:12 PM, Nomad NYC said:

Upgrading of the Winter Protection Box

Since I didn't have alot of time and materials to create a totally new winter protection box , I simply took the original box , and just quickly added new sections to it...

   

 

Looks like more thermal insulation paneling is needed for this, but unfortunately,  I had no time to get any more that day..

   

 

 I put on temporary cover on the whole set up, so that I could try to continue to working on it later , when I had more time.

  

 

The following weekend I did managed to get the extra paneling to finish the new box sections, set up the final position,  and applying of mulch at the base for insulation of the ground area.

      

 

Looks pretty comfortable in there , don't cha think? 

 

This upgraded winter protection box should be more than enough room for any new growth of my new replacement CIDP ,  well, at least the next several years.

   

 

 Yes, It may not the best looking winter protection box out there,  but it's totally functional!

  

 

Doing the tarp wrap thing here as well, for added insulation ( used two tarps for both front and back coverage ).  Then all tied to support rods for added stability.

    

 

Good thing I did this just in time, for two weeks ago there was  a brief spell of a cold snap that sent the temperature down to the mid teens ( Fahrenheit ) here in the tri-state area,  so that it actually actually snowed a bit .

    

But I have a feeling that there probably won't be much of any  snow ( if at all  ) for the rest of the winter ..

 

With more than two layers of insulation, mulching, plus added interior heating , that should be more than enough winter protection for my palm - now I just have to patiently wait for spring...

 

Wishing you all a Very Happy New Year 2025!

I think the protection is fine. However, I would lift the tarp off the ground some, so the palm can get some air exchange. Just keep temps reasonable during the cold snaps (not too hot in the shelter) and you should be fine. Each time there is a cold wave, dew points will get very low, so I would not worry too much about moisture build up. I'm down in Florida now, but I set up my Robusta in zone 7b close to the same way...and it does fine.

The coldest temp I see for your area is 23 F in the next 7 days...and even in this cold snap -  there should be several days with highs 35 to 40 F.  There are no days in the next 7 days that will have highs below freezing.  The snow forecast for the NYC area on Monday is 1 inch, so nothing to worry about. 

 Just remember, on winter days of 40 F or higher - no C-9 lights. Even in winter the sun is strong at 40 latitude, and you will damage the palm if temps get to 100 F inside the shelter. You know the way winter temps go up and down...10 days from now the models are showing another push of mild air will come up the coast and NYC will be in the 50's F. So monitoring the C 9 light use is the most important.

IMO - Days when the daily mean temp (high and low averaged together) is above 35 F or so (frequent in NYC in winter) DO NOTHING. Any day with a high above 40 F the C 9 lights should be off 100% of the time.  Even at night, unless the low is going below 28 F or so, I would leave the C9 lights off.  What kills palms that are protected in zone 7 and 8 more often than not is - OVERKILL. The palm will be fine on it's own if you just keep the rain/snow off it on more than half the winter days. 

Your December had plenty of days in the 45 - 60 F range...you should open your shelter on these days.

DECEMBER 2024

Keep us updated. 

 

 

[Nomad NYC]

2 hours ago, Subtropical LIS said:

I think the protection is fine. However, I would lift the tarp off the ground some, so the palm can get some air exchange. Just keep temps reasonable during the cold snaps (not too hot in the shelter) and you should be fine. Each time there is a cold wave, dew points will get very low, so I would not worry too much about moisture build up. I'm down in Florida now, but I set up my Robusta in zone 7b close to the same way...and it does fine.

 Just remember, on winter days of 40 F or higher - no C-9 lights. Even in winter the sun is strong at 40 latitude, and you will damage the palm if temps get to 100 F inside the shelter. You know the way winter temps go up and down...10 days from now the models are showing another push of mild air will come up the coast and NYC will be in the 50's F. So monitoring the C 9 light use is the most important.

IMO - Days when the daily mean temp (high and low averaged together) is above 35 F or so (frequent in NYC in winter) DO NOTHING. Any day with a high above 40 F the C 9 lights should be off 100% of the time.  Even at night, unless the low is going below 28 F or so, I would leave the C9 lights off.  What kills palms that are protected in zone 7 and 8 more often than not is - OVERKILL. The palm will be fine on it's own if you just keep the rain/snow off it on more than half the winter days. 

 

 

 Let's see,  for the question of airflow in the boxes, they aren't sealed shut , and the tarp covers are wrapped in such manner that  that there is always some airflow from the bottom to the top as well.

   I'm far closer to Kennedy airport ( about a mile and a half ) than Central Park, so I usually take the official temp readings from that nearby location. Yes, there may be the recent occasional temperature spikes, but it's usually around high 20's high 30's for most of January and February.

  About the temperature regulation, I do have the C9 light connected to Thermo-Cube temperature controlled outlet adapters , which automatically turn on when air temperature drops below 35°F (2°C) and turn off when air temperature exceeds 45°F (7°C). ( I've tried using a outdoor sensor thermometer in the boxes for monitoring the temperatures, but for some reason or another, I haven't yet had any success with the remote wireless connections ). But being that CIDP's are not extremely cold tolerant, I'd much rather have the box briefly too hot than not anyway.

 When temperatures here does become warmer than 50 degrees Fahrenheit consistently ( usually around mid March ),  I  usually take off the tarps, but I personally never encountered any issues with the box overheating before then, even with the occasional temperature spikes during season.  

   In my view there really isn't a "right way" or  "wrong way" for doing winter protection, just different approaches. Every situation is different, every plant is different, depending on the variables , and it's up to the individual to see what works and what doesn't. I'm more of an experimental gardener,  so I constantly try out different techniques and methods to see what works for me. which may be totally different for others. But  thanks for your inputs and concerns -  I always enjoy learning new things and other people's experiences here in PalmTalk  forums!

 

[Subtropical LIS]

2 hours ago, Nomad NYC said:

 

 Let's see,  for the question of airflow in the boxes, they aren't sealed shut , and the tarp covers are wrapped in such manner that  that there is always some airflow from the bottom to the top as well.

   I'm far closer to Kennedy airport ( about a mile and a half ) than Central Park, so I usually take the official temp readings from that nearby location. Yes, there may be the recent occasional temperature spikes, but it's usually around high 20's high 30's for most of January and February.

  About the temperature regulation, I do have the C9 light connected to Thermo-Cube temperature controlled outlet adapters , which automatically turn on when air temperature drops below 35°F (2°C) and turn off when air temperature exceeds 45°F (7°C). ( I've tried using a outdoor sensor thermometer in the boxes for monitoring the temperatures, but for some reason or another, I haven't yet had any success with the remote wireless connections ). But being that CIDP's are not extremely cold tolerant, I'd much rather have the box briefly too hot than not anyway.

 When temperatures here does become warmer than 50 degrees Fahrenheit consistently ( usually around mid March ),  I  usually take off the tarps, but I personally never encountered any issues with the box overheating before then, even with the occasional temperature spikes during season.  

   In my view there really isn't a "right way" or  "wrong way" for doing winter protection, just different approaches. et's see,  for the question of airflow in the boxes, they aren't sealed shut , and the tarp covers are wrapped in such manner that  that there is always some airflow from the bottom to the top as well.  so I constantly try out different techniques and methods to see what works for me. which may be totally different for others. But  thanks for your inputs and concerns -  I always enjoy learning new things and other people's experiences here in PalmTalk  forums!

 

It's good that the boxes are not sealed shut. So you have that covered perfect. One really has to be careful not to "cook" the palms. Stories abound of this on many On-line hardy palm sites.

The thermo cube is a great idea, and actually one I've seen a few times.  Your 100% right of course, there is no "right way" or  "wrong way" for doing winter protection, just different approaches. However, you do want it to be easy from year to year.

Although I only protect 1 palm in zone 7b in CT, and pretty much nothing here in Florida. So I don't have a great deal of experince. However, one of the coolest/easiest things I ever saw was from Tiki -71. Rather that using hardboard insulation and wood frams (a bit of over kill in zone 7b)...he simply used a wire cage and hung Xmass light on the inside, then just covered about 60% of the palm with a waterproof trap. 

An offshoot of his idea is having a flap that opens on nice weather days. I did this for a Robusta and it is SO simple to use, on a nice day it takes 1 min to open/close the flap and the palm gets sun. It really works amazingly well.  It looks like from your photos, you have to take the tarp off, then remove the foam board to get some sun. So just another idea.

Maybe for fun next year,  you might want to try his idea. It's so easy and costs about $80 to construct. He uses a thermocube as well. I put in his link:

 

 

 

Flap to open on warm winter days - 8 foot robusta:

 

[wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww11]

you can grow palms in new york city part of the city is subtropical part is southern continental so even if canary island date palm is cold hardy you guys still get cold possibly snowy winters sometimes low is under 15F,  you may need to add some blankets protecting the palmetto from the cold weather and then you are in good hands