Miracles never cease in these parts

[Ltapia]

  On 7/14/2023 at 5:49 AM, jwitt said:

Nice, stubby buggers!

How old are they? 

 

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They’re around 8 months old !

[jwitt]

  On 7/15/2023 at 11:42 AM, Ltapia said:

They’re around 8 months old !

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That's impressive and considering we got 3+ months of palm growing left.........

Plans?

[Ltapia]

  On 7/15/2023 at 1:30 PM, jwitt said:

That's impressive and considering we got 3+ months of palm growing left.........

Plans?

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Plant in spring maybe give some away or sell let’s see not sure . I also have some pure filifera seedlings as well that I just started .

[Ltapia]

  On 7/15/2023 at 1:30 PM, jwitt said:

That's impressive and considering we got 3+ months of palm growing left.........

Plans?

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Plant in spring maybe give some away or sell let’s see not sure . I also have some pure filifera seedlings as well that I just started .

[jwitt]

Plant one of those seedlings in the ground! 

Use the cup for winter protection! 

[Ltapia]

  On 7/16/2023 at 2:44 AM, jwitt said:

Plant one of those seedlings in the ground! 

Use the cup for winter protection! 

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U think right now ??

[jwitt]

  On 7/16/2023 at 3:55 AM, Ltapia said:

U think right now ??

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Yep, Keep watered til balloon fiesta. 

I assume if your seedling could talk it would agree.

Pick a good spot, they get huge......

Edited July 16, 2023 by jwitt

[SailorBold]

  On 7/16/2023 at 4:05 AM, jwitt said:

Yep, Keep watered til balloon fiesta. 

I assume if your seedling could talk it would agree.

Pick a good spot, they get huge......

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I agree..   or a wall o water too.. 

[Ltapia]

  On 7/16/2023 at 6:02 AM, SailorBold said:

I agree..   or a wall o water too.. 

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I think I’ll try those wall o water . Is the top exposed to the elements ?

[SailorBold]

  On 7/16/2023 at 1:17 PM, Ltapia said:

I think I’ll try those wall o water . Is the top exposed to the elements ?

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Yes.. if you could get the EZ-Wall variety I'd suggest that one.. but you could easily put a piece of burlap or insulation in the top opening during storms.. or teepee it closed by moving the base out further and leaning the opening inward. They work.. if you had rocks in there additionally.. it will most likely be freeze free all winter..

[SailorBold]

  On 7/17/2023 at 12:01 AM, SailorBold said:

Yes.. if you could get the EZ-Wall variety I'd suggest that one.. but you could easily put a piece of burlap or insulation in the top opening during storms.. or teepee it closed by moving the base out further and leaning the opening inward. They work.. if you had rocks in there additionally.. it will most likely be freeze free all winter.. 

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strange how it works but it will go to 33-35f inside even with temps into the teens.

Edited July 17, 2023 by SailorBold

[Ltapia]

  On 7/17/2023 at 12:03 AM, SailorBold said:

strange how it works but it will go to 33-35f inside even with temps into the teens.

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Sounds good I will try this with the smaller ones I have a larger one might have to wrap the trunk with burlap for it’s first winter in ground .

[jwitt]

Growing in a "blue" moon. 

[Alex High]

@jwitt and @SailorBold

I was wondering, how often do you have to water your palms in the Albuquerque area? I would love to move to a dry climate like yours to grow palms but watering would be my biggest concern. I would imagine palms like Washys require little supplemental watering once established even in arid climates like yours, but how about Trachys, Sabals, and other palms from wetter climates? How often do you guys water them?

[SailorBold]

  On 2/12/2024 at 3:21 PM, Alex High said:

@jwitt and @SailorBold

I was wondering, how often do you have to water your palms in the Albuquerque area? I would love to move to a dry climate like yours to grow palms but watering would be my biggest concern. I would imagine palms like Washys require little supplemental watering once established even in arid climates like yours, but how about Trachys, Sabals, and other palms from wetter climates? How often do you guys water them?

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I water everyday from March until November and shut off the watering system Dec-Feb..  I have 3 Sabals.. 2 of which are on the same drip system.. I dont have any trachies.. the water is fairly alkaline out of the tap..   I upped the water last year with good results but I wouldn't attempt to grow any palms here without supplemental water..  im working on the rain barrel harvesting system..and even with that I wouldn't change how I water....that will be the extra for nutrient/fertilizers intakes.. thats just me.. soil types vary..where I am its sand..so really no water retention either.. 

[Alex High]

  On 2/14/2024 at 3:14 PM, SailorBold said:

I water everyday from March until November and shut off the watering system Dec-Feb..  I have 3 Sabals.. 2 of which are on the same drip system.. I dont have any trachies.. the water is fairly alkaline out of the tap..   I upped the water last year with good results but I wouldn't attempt to grow any palms here without supplemental water..  im working on the rain barrel harvesting system..and even with that I wouldn't change how I water....that will be the extra for nutrient/fertilizers intakes.. thats just me.. soil types vary..where I am its sand..so really no water retention either.. 

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Thanks for the response! Wow daily watering seems like a lot, is it just a bit each day? Are the water bills really high annually? So do you not water at all between November and March? And are the monsoon rains not enough to keep the palms watered during June/July-September? Do you still water daily during monsoon season? Thanks, sorry for all the questions, I'm just really curious what it takes to keep palms growing in your climate, and wondering how much water I would need to use if I lived there. By the way, your Jubaea x Butia is absolutely stunning, looks amazing in the snow with the Washys and cacti/succulents. Beautiful garden in such an interesting climate!

[jwitt]

  On 2/12/2024 at 3:21 PM, Alex High said:

@jwitt and @SailorBold

I was wondering, how often do you have to water your palms in the Albuquerque area? I would love to move to a dry climate like yours to grow palms but watering would be my biggest concern. I would imagine palms like Washys require little supplemental watering once established even in arid climates like yours, but how about Trachys, Sabals, and other palms from wetter climates? How often do you guys water them?

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Speaking of my yard in Rio Rancho,  it is pretty much as sailorbold describes. Although my palms near my postage stamp lawn are not watered directly per se, but through the lawn.  The lawn is watered near daily from late May they September.  My seedlings sown in the ground are watered near daily.  They would not exist otherwise.  

Washies are not truly able to survive on less than 15-20" annual precipitation without supplemental irrigation of some sort.  They may persist, but not really grow or gain mass.  Otherwise, they would be seen wild in areas like saguaro or mesquite, etc.  Washingtonia is really only found in isolated, very "wet" areas in the desert. 

My yard and most of the Westside of ABQ is sand with no water table available to plants.  The valley areas are different with water tables up to a couple of feet.  Enough where alfalfa can tap into the water. 

On a side note, the palms I grow (med, filifera, Trachy)need no supplemental water while they are not growing (Nov-early March). None.  Sabal I am under the assumption that they do not like their roots to dry out. 

There is a whole science in irrigation in dry landscapes. Quite interesting and I pretty much only glanced. Placement of plants to structures and terrain can be very important. Water coming off a roof, roadway, swale are something a desert dweller will notice. 

Monsoon can be very hit or miss. Yes we may get a gully washer, but the continuous 100f temps can dry things out fast. Very fast.  Or it is dry at my house and two blocks over is drenched, not exaggerating. 

Even my use of larger rocks is also a mulch or conserve/concentrator of moisture. 

It takes a bit of a different mindset, and growing a lawn is not very efficient or even a really good use of our limited resource. So I am guilty. But I like my bit of green, year-round. 

One bit of desert finding per se, we water only the roots/soil. Not leaves or anything else.  

 

 

Edited February 14, 2024 by jwitt

[jwitt]

A couple yard shots from the last thirty days. 

[Alex High]

  On 2/14/2024 at 9:48 PM, jwitt said:

Speaking of my yard in Rio Rancho,  it is pretty much as sailorbold describes. Although my palms near my postage stamp lawn are not watered directly per se, but through the lawn.  The lawn is watered near daily from late May they September.  My seedlings sown in the ground are watered near daily.  They would not exist otherwise.  

Washies are not truly able to survive on less than 15-20" annual precipitation without supplemental irrigation of some sort.  They may persist, but not really grow or gain mass.  Otherwise, they would be seen wild in areas like saguaro or mesquite, etc.  Washingtonia is really only found in isolated, very "wet" areas in the desert. 

My yard and most of the Westside of ABQ is sand with no water table available to plants.  The valley areas are different with water tables up to a couple of feet.  Enough where alfalfa can tap into the water. 

On a side note, the palms I grow (med, filifera, Trachy)need no supplemental water while they are not growing (Nov-early March). None.  Sabal I am under the assumption that they do not like their roots to dry out. 

There is a whole science in irrigation in dry landscapes. Quite interesting and I pretty much only glanced. Placement of plants to structures and terrain can be very important. Water coming off a roof, roadway, swale are something a desert dweller will notice. 

Monsoon can be very hit or miss. Yes we may get a gully washer, but the continuous 100f temps can dry things out fast. Very fast.  Or it is dry at my house and two blocks over is drenched, not exaggerating. 

Even my use of larger rocks is also a mulch or conserve/concentrator of moisture. 

It takes a bit of a different mindset, and growing a lawn is not very efficient or even a really good use of our limited resource. So I am guilty. But I like my bit of green, year-round. 

One bit of desert finding per se, we water only the roots/soil. Not leaves or anything else.  

 

 

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Great info, thank you! My dream is to have a yard full to the brim with palms, and I think ABQ is an awesome place to grow hardy species, but of course the water requirements are my concern, so this helps me figure things out. Yeah if I started growing palms in an arid climate like yours I'd need to do a lot of research about watering, placement, etc. to maximize water retention. Thanks again, I'm a big admirer of your and @SailorBold's hardy palm pursuits in the NM high desert, I love reading through all the posts on threads like this one and learning about your unique and fascinating climate and the plants it can support. Your palms look incredible, great photos, keep up the great work!

[jwitt]

This 14 month seedling is planted in the heights of ABQ(Wyoming/Paseo) area. 

Question: filifera or hybrid?

[SailorBold]

Hybrid.. the leaflets are too long.. skinny..

???  

[jwitt]

Same question.

Filifera or hybrid?

Location= Mesa, Az

14 month seedling/slipper=12"

[SailorBold]

This one I'd say the same..hmm.. however I know this may be a trick question.. so I'd say filifera..  the leaves on my palm were more flat..

Are these moapa?

[SailorBold]

Wait.. are these all Westside blvd offspings?

[jwitt]

  On 9/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, SailorBold said:

Wait.. are these all Westside blvd offspings?

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Yes, these are both westside/Rayado off spring. These both were started from seed in pots in June of last year.  Planted in ground in May of this year.  

I was not trying to do any tricks, they are hybrid.

What I find interesting is the lack/loss of leaf base coloring.  They both had red/purple while in pots in neutral soil. Now both are in alkaline conditions(both soil and water-other the the minimal rain).

Now that coloring has mostly vanished. 

Stay tuned for tricks.

[ChrisA]

Hey Jim,

How is the Sabal mexicana doing that you planted last year? I always thought that was a palm that needed to be tried in Albuquerque. After seeing its toughness in the cold snaps here in Texas it seems like a real winner, better than palmetto from what I’ve seen. I think the large Sabal at the zoo might be one!

Cheers, Chris

[jwitt]

  On 9/13/2024 at 1:48 AM, ChrisA said:

Hey Jim,

How is the Sabal mexicana doing that you planted last year? I always thought that was a palm that needed to be tried in Albuquerque. After seeing its toughness in the cold snaps here in Texas it seems like a real winner, better than palmetto from what I’ve seen. I think the large Sabal at the zoo might be one!

Cheers, Chris

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I managed to kill it. 

I love those palms.  For me, they are the filifera of the palmetto world.  Watched several go thru some major N. Texas weather thru the years. Damn tuff palm on steroids!

I needed to plant it in a wetter part of my yard is my best guess.  It stayed green thru winter and then soon withered away come spring. It is a palm I will try again.  

And I feel really bad as it was gifted.

I managed to do the same thing with minors a decade or two ago. 

I kick myself for not planting the Mexicana near my lawn.  

 

 

[jwitt]

  On 9/12/2024 at 10:30 PM, SailorBold said:

Hybrid.. the leaflets are too long.. skinny..

???  

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Do you remember how old yours are in this pic?

[SailorBold]

  On 9/13/2024 at 4:51 AM, jwitt said:

Do you remember how old yours are in this pic?

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Just over a year and a half..

[ChrisA]

  On 9/13/2024 at 4:37 AM, jwitt said:

I managed to kill it. 

I love those palms.  For me, they are the filifera of the palmetto world.  Watched several go thru some major N. Texas weather thru the years. Damn tuff palm on steroids!

I needed to plant it in a wetter part of my yard is my best guess.  It stayed green thru winter and then soon withered away come spring. It is a palm I will try again.  

And I feel really bad as it was gifted.

I managed to do the same thing with minors a decade or two ago. 

I kick myself for not planting the Mexicana near my lawn.  

 

 

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Sorry to hear, I can imagine the New Mexican sun beating down on it with all its wrath.  TX is damn hot but the sun is no where near as searing.  I'm happy to send you seeds if you want.  DM me your address  and I'll get them sent out.

[NMPalmjunky]

  On 4/7/2022 at 5:52 AM, jwitt said:

So I start "groves" with seed directly sown into the soil to get my curved desire.  At the end of the day, I love the straight arrows too. Remember, I am on a mission and I have a problem. Most of us palmholics do.

   Here is one I did by planting seeds in 2013. This picture is from 3/2015.  These are not the "miracle"palms at the beginning of the post. 

Near the top of the post, I mistated my planting of the seeds as 2014. It was spring(March)2013. 

I do not actively provide protection. I do passively provide some mass(rock) in this climate(I am a mile high in elevation) for younger specimans in my 7b climate.

On a side note, the clump to the right is med palm that survived -10f in 2011. Still there today. Never protected, don't do it. Will explain later.

This post will continue and delve into how and why I got to where I did. Stay tuned....

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@jwitt How is this grove progressing? Is growth slower or about the same as your other washys?

[jwitt]

  On 12/5/2024 at 8:11 AM, NMPalmjunky said:

@jwitt How is this grove progressing? Is growth slower or about the same as your other washys?

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The palms have been removed from this grove.  I will follow up with an explanation as to why.  It has to do with my personal Arctic experience and mostly the Texas palmageddon. 

For me, in my(our) climate/location, the "grove" (seeding in place)cannot be beat as far as growth.  It all ties into the original reasoning of this post.

The next closest is planting very young, strap to 2 years old. 

Give me a bit, results  are forthcoming.  I will leave it at that. 

If interested in doing the seeding in place, now is the time for seed collection. Hint/hint!

[NMPalmjunky]

  On 12/5/2024 at 2:41 PM, jwitt said:

The palms have been removed from this grove.  I will follow up with an explanation as to why.  It has to do with my personal Arctic experience and mostly the Texas palmageddon. 

For me, in my(our) climate/location, the "grove" (seeding in place)cannot be beat as far as growth.  It all ties into the original reasoning of this post.

The next closest is planting very young, strap to 2 years old. 

Give me a bit, results  are forthcoming.  I will leave it at that. 

If interested in doing the seeding in place, now is the time for seed collection. Hint/hint!

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@jwittI would definitely be interested in seeding in place something other than Sabal minor. Do you know of any reliable local seed sources? Here are some pictures of some of my minor seedlings. I have plenty more minor sees if interested. 

[NMPalmjunky]

  On 5/20/2023 at 11:52 PM, jwitt said:

Several dozen potential palms. We'll see.

Most will be planted in my yard.

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@jwitt I made my way to the future palm oasis of central New Mexico. It’s about a mile from house and a beautiful walk ok this pleasant sunny December day of 60 degrees.  I didn’t find of your seedlings, but I planted many more Sabal Minor seeds. I did the same in the flood reservoir that is behind my neighborhood in trinity estates too. 

[jwitt]

@NMPalmjunky

As far as washingtonia, @Ltapia did have some Rayado seed in the past.  The San Mateo filifera did bloom, so it may also have seed. 

Personally, I am going to try to get some moapa seed in the near future, this winter. 

I am personally out of any washie seed.  But if that changes, I will let you know.  

I also seeded minor and had them coming up for several years. But my watering skills(lack) proved fatal in the end. 

[jwitt]

  On 12/5/2024 at 11:45 PM, NMPalmjunky said:

@jwitt I made my way to the future palm oasis of central New Mexico. It’s about a mile from house and a beautiful walk ok this pleasant sunny December day of 60 degrees.  I didn’t find of your seedlings, but I planted many more Sabal Minor seeds. I did the same in the flood reservoir that is behind my neighborhood in trinity estates too. 

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I got hopes for that spot.  Gonna come down to timing and luck!

[NMPalmjunky]

This is the flood area closer to my house and the mother Sabal. 

[jwitt]

@NMPalmjunky

Save me some minor seeds and I'll work on getting some filifera seed.  Give me a couple months. 

Ps. Does your Trachy bloom? Needing some pollen this spring....if male. 

Pss that pump station in your neighborhood was the Corrales weather station for some time. I think it really confused the NWS, so they returned it near the river and created another(RR2) near the future palm 🌴 oasis.  

[ABQPalms]

I have 16 Rayado seeds, collected the end of October. I am currently germinating 5 of them to see if they're viable. I have about 80 Filifera seedlings going now, between 1-2 months old as well. More in the germination process.

[NMPalmjunky]

@jwitt I was not aware of the RR2 weather station location. I will need to look into the stats further. With that being said, I believe that there is a microclimate on the hillside between 528 and the pump station. The area has almost completely filled in over the last decade since I planted my first palms. 

I’m not sure if they are male or female, but I get these flowers on my two larger trachys. you are welcome to as many minor seeds (or seedlings) as you would like.