HELP: Lemurophoenix halleuxii germination

[CarloSpain]

I have some of these big seeds and I would like to how should I germinate them. I know these seeds are very dificuld to germinate. Do I have to soak them in water for some hours or for a few days, wash off the husk,  plant them?  Are these steps required or should I just put the fresh  seeds into a pot with soil?

Thanks!

Jose Carlos

[JD in the OC]

Based on my experience...

Remove any husk and soak for a couple days.

Plant in a deep plastic container using only perlite and volcanic rock as growing medium

Keep only slightly moist, and never wet.

Spray with fungicide every once and a while.

Keep the container at 32-40 deg C.

Wait until you get one full spike and a deep root system before potting up.

Lastly, keep in mind a 1-2% germination is typical.

Good luck!

Jd

[bgl]

Reading JD's response makes me think of a rather strange expression: "there are many ways to skin a cat." Being a "dog person" I don't have much experience with cats, and have no idea why anyone would want to skin one... ???  BUT, that being said, there are of course a number of approaches to germinating seeds. Some may be better than others, and unless you try them all, difficult to say which one is better, or best.

I bought 200 Lemurophoenix seeds from Ortanique in Feb 2006. 42 of them germinated. That's 21% and I was happy with that. Comparing my method to JD's, this is what I did different:

1) I did NOT soak them. Planted them straight in the germainating medium

2) I did NOT use a deep container. The plastic containers I used had a depth of about 8-9 cm of medium (3.5 inches). I used Sunshine Germinating Mix #3, which is about 80% peat moss plus Vermiculite

3) Probably kept wetter than just "moist"

4) Never sprayed with fungicide

5) Temperature outside of plastic container probably NEVER exceeded +30C (about 86F), but since I have a cover on the container (i.e. a completely closed environment) the temp inside the container was probably rather high, except at night.

6) I certainly agree that you should wait for one full spike before potting up.

As it happened, my largest Lemurophoenix halleuxii opened up a new red spectacular frond four days ago, and I took a few photos of that individual (and of a few others) with the intention of starting a new thread. But instead of doing that, I'll just post the photos here. This is is the palm, planted from a 4inch pot in Oct 1997. Now, 10 years later, the new frond is about 14 ft tall.

[bgl]

And here's the new frond from the "back side"

[bgl]

And here's another, younger, individual. This one was planted from a 1G pot in March 2002 and it was planted in full sun (which they do NOT like when small). It has now adjusted to the full sun, and is doing just fun. Another one is visible in the background (to the left)

[bgl]

And here's a seedling that opened up a new frond recently

[CarloSpain]

Thank Jd and bgl but why don`t never sprayed with fungicide?

[bgl]

Jose,

I have never sprayed seeds (that I attempt to germinate) with fungicide. That's not to say that maybe I shouldn't have done that on occasion, and I should probably pay more attention in the future. I tend to just plant the seeds, put the lid on the containers and then "forget" about them for a few months.

Bo-Göran

[JD in the OC]

Bo,

Yes, everyone has their different methods there are probably more "different" methods for Lemurs than any other palm.

The problem I had with them is as soon as the eye opens and the embyro pushes out its first "plant material", the eye gets viciously attacked by fungus and very very small white bugs which turn it to goo and kill the seedling.  This is why I keep the seeds fairly dry and allow the ambient moisture in the air around them to supply enough H2O for growth.  The highest germination rate I've ever heard of was nearly 100%.  The gentleman had forgot about a bag of Lemurs and sphagnum in his trunk for several weeks where temps probably reached 120F.

Also, you are in tropical Hawaii while Carlo and I are in a Mediterranean climate- very different growing scenarios.

But heck, if you got a 21% germination rate, who am I to talk  

[JD in the OC]

[MattyB]

I eat them and grow them inside of my warm belly.  All kidding aside, I think one of the most important things that was mentioned in this thread is JD's "slightly moist" method.  This has yielded the least amount of rot for me as well.  Surprizing at how little moisture it takes for seeds to germinate when the system is sealed up and humid......NOT WET!

[bgl]

JD,

I don't believe the fact that I'm in Hawaii is relevant. I germinate these seeds in plastic containers that I keep indoors - above our walk-in closet fairly close to the high ceiling. In other words, they are not exposed to the outside elements. Being familiar with the weather in both SoCal and Spain I can say with certainty that it's likely to get even hotter in a similar indoor location in SoCal or Spain than here in Hawaii during the summer months. And even though the temp outside is going to be cooler during the winter months, this is not relevant, since the house temp is not going to drop but so low, whether here or there!

Bo-Göran

[MattyB]

I can see my breath inside my house in winter Bo.  Hardwood floors, no attic insulation and no central heating make for coldness.  Bo, you've been in hawaii so long that you probably don't remember what cold feels like. :laugh:

[DoomsDave]

There's been a hypothesis that Lemuro-p's were distributed by the now-extinct giant elephant bird, which swallowed the seeds whole, and, like other birds, also swallowed stones which banged against the seeds in the bird's crop, after which the birds pooped out the seeds and they grew.

Hmm.  From what I hear, the seeds are far too large for people to do the poopy thing, plus, I wonder if they'd survive the acid bath of the stomach.

Anyone have any thoughts?

dave

[MattyB]

Has anyone attempted to crack the endocarp?

[bgl]

Matt,

Ha ha, I was referring to people who live in houses with insulation!  And I DO remember what cold weather feels like. That's why I have no intention of ever again going to a cold place during the winter! And that includes Spring Valley...

And Dave,

You could probably swallow these seeds if you're desperate enough. I just don't know why... And where did you get the bird poop story from? Is there a documentary on the History Channel that I somehow missed out on? ???  

Bo-Göran

[BS Man about Palms]

I have two that I found growing curled in a baggie at the now defunct Palm Mountain. Both in 1 gals, 1 looks bigger and better than the other. The bigger one just opened a split leaf (one step past bifid)

[DoomsDave]

(bgl @ Aug. 30 2007,18:51)

QUOTE

And Dave,

You could probably swallow these seeds if you're desperate enough. I just don't know why... And where did you get the bird poop story from? Is there a documentary on the History Channel that I somehow missed out on? ???  

Bo-Göran

I (and everyone) could probably do a lot of things, if we were desperate enough.  Seriously desperate.

This is just a hypothesis . .. . .

Not a conclusion.

[bgl]

Fair enough - and I think I'll just stick with my standard germination approach!

[mike453]

(MattyB @ Aug. 30 2007,18:44)

QUOTE

Has anyone attempted to crack the endocarp?

It's not an option to do this if you want them to grow. Sort of coconut like inside. They are Hollow and would Rot, too.

                       Mike

[Tyrone]

I wish I could get some seed into Oz. Ortanique wouldn't sell me any cos of the CITES issue.

Tyrone

[Gileno Machado]

moist coconut peat in plastic jugs here with these seeds...zero percent germination rate after more than 6 months...

[bgl]

Gileno,

Don't give up quite yet! Even though I had germination before 6 months was up, I found germination to be sporadic. A couple of them would sprout one month, then a couple of months later, a few more. I potted up my first dozen into 1G pots in early Sept 2006, so that was just over 6 months from planting the seeds. Of course, by then, they were about to open their first leaves, and had a strong root system. But I also just potted up a few in June of this year - 16 months after planting the seeds! And who knows, I may still get a few more.

Bo-Göran

[35HD]

I'M W/ BO, NO FUNGICIDE AND VERY SHALLOW POT. I USE NURSERY FLATS WITH MESS BOTTOMS AND COVER WITH SUNFILM OR AGROFABRIC. KEEPING SEEDS JUST MOIST AND NOT WET IS IDEAL.

[CarloSpain]

Good notice, I am going to do one  photo!!!

[CarloSpain]

Some of the seeds just have germinated!  I removed the husk  very carefully in the embryo zone and I soak them in very warm water for 4 hour, I plant then in wet fiber coco in my propagator (32ºC) and sprayed with fungicide.  Fou days and you can see:

[Carlo Morici]

¡Enhorabuena! ...Lemurophoenix en España.

Carlo

[CarloSpain]

Gracias Carlo , habra que tener paciencia :laugh: ,  tendremos que esperar 10 o 15 años para ver una palmera medio decente, espero  

[surferjr]

Reading JD's response makes me think of a rather strange expression: "there are many ways to skin a cat." Being a "dog person" I don't have much experience with cats, and have no idea why anyone would want to skin one... ???  BUT, that being said, there are of course a number of approaches to germinating seeds. Some may be better than others, and unless you try them all, difficult to say which one is better, or best.

I bought 200 Lemurophoenix seeds from Ortanique in Feb 2006. 42 of them germinated. That's 21% and I was happy with that. Comparing my method to JD's, this is what I did different:

1) I did NOT soak them. Planted them straight in the germainating medium

2) I did NOT use a deep container. The plastic containers I used had a depth of about 8-9 cm of medium (3.5 inches). I used Sunshine Germinating Mix #3, which is about 80% peat moss plus Vermiculite

3) Probably kept wetter than just "moist"

4) Never sprayed with fungicide

5) Temperature outside of plastic container probably NEVER exceeded +30C (about 86F), but since I have a cover on the container (i.e. a completely closed environment) the temp inside the container was probably rather high, except at night.

6) I certainly agree that you should wait for one full spike before potting up.

As it happened, my largest Lemurophoenix halleuxii opened up a new red spectacular frond four days ago, and I took a few photos of that individual (and of a few others) with the intention of starting a new thread. But instead of doing that, I'll just post the photos here. This is is the palm, planted from a 4inch pot in Oct 1997. Now, 10 years later, the new frond is about 14 ft tall.

Beau...Great story!