Time to trunk cut?

[Ben G.]

Looking for some second opinions here. I have two trachycarpus waggies that are planted on the east side of my home. The smaller of the two is thriving after having to be covered five different times this winter due to heavy rain events followed by snow/ice and temps below 20F. The larger of the two sitting just 15 ft away didn't fare as well, despite being covered in the same manner as its smaller neighbor. It spear pulled about a month ago. I have been giving a little bit of hydrogen peroxide once every week to 10 days since then. After past spear pulls that was enough to get the job done. This time though, I had another spear pull on me yesterday. Given this latest spear pull. Should I try to trunk cut it to save it? Or should I continue to try to nurse it with antifungals since ir still has some green left on it? I will post pics below:

[Ben G.]

Here is the patient for potential surgery:

 

[Ben G.]

Closer up:

[Ben G.]

The smaller version that shrugged of the winter:

[kinzyjr]

34 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

Here is the patient for potential surgery:

At this point, it's probably worth going for it.  Hopefully you'll find some live tissue in there.

[Jimhardy]

Do it right away, the other leaves are failing...it

may be to late but you never know and once you operate you will have

a clear view of what it looks like in there...I used to like to cut mine so the

(angled) cut is facing south....so at an angle square to the sun.  Good luck!

 

...And take some more pics if you don't mind.

[Swolte]

How deep is the hole?

[Ben G.]

41 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

At this point, it's probably worth going for it.  Hopefully you'll find some live tissue in there.

Thanks. With more downpours coming tonight, I will have to do it soon.

[Ben G.]

16 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Do it right away, the other leaves are failing...it

may be to late but you never know and once you operate you will have

a clear view of what it looks like in there...I used to like to cut mine so the

(angled) cut is facing south....so at an angle square to the sun.  Good luck!

 

...And take some more pics if you don't mind.

Thanks Jim. I will try to angle the cut toward the sun. I haven't ever trunk cut anything, so this will be a first for me. I will take some more pics before and after too.

[Ben G.]

12 minutes ago, Swolte said:

How deep is the hole?

Not sure how deep. At least 2.5 inches though.

[Jimhardy]

be careful not to let the trunk get jacked around to much

while your cutting, that was always a problem for me...to keep it steady

and not damage the roots too....they can be a little tough to cut through.

[Allen]

I agree to trunk cut the one.  I just looked at your weather history and you have had multiple cold days that are too much for these palms.  In the future you will need a heated enclosure.  These palms should have full size trunks and growing at a rate of 10+ fronds/year before you chance them even down to 12F.  before that cover if under 21F.      

[Ben G.]

Took the plunge and cut the trunk. I was only hesitant because I have had palms come back from this type of damage before without cutting. I have also lost some too though. I am still shocked that this palm was so damaged. It came back from exposure to -14F with the same method of protection last year. Hard to imagine how this winter was worse, but oh well.

 

[Ben G.]

[Ben G.]

Should I cut further to look for something green or just wait to see if there is any growth? It wasnt moldy or rotten at this level, but definitely not green either.

[kinzyjr]

@Ben OK Doesn't look like there is any live tissue there

[Ben G.]

17 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@Ben OK Doesn't look like there is any live tissue there

It was worth a shot. Can't win them all.

[Palmy Pal]

Cut it a bit farther down until you see a white core in the center. If you see that then there is live tissue. And if you do see the white center core then put a clear container on top of it to keep it dry while still allowing it to get sun. 

[Ben G.]

48 minutes ago, Palmy Pal said:

Cut it a bit farther down until you see a white core in the center. If you see that then there is live tissue. And if you do see the white center core then put a clear container on top of it to keep it dry while still allowing it to get sun. 

Thanks. I will give that a try tomorrow.

[Jimhardy]

Cant see from the pic how far you cut it but I can see that (as mentioned) there is no live tissue yet.

Keep going, it should be the color of( the inside) of an apple in the center if its alive. 

[Ben G.]

21 hours ago, Palmy Pal said:

Cut it a bit farther down until you see a white core in the center. If you see that then there is live tissue. And if you do see the white center core then put a clear container on top of it to keep it dry while still allowing it to get sun. 

I cut it further and found some white. Looks like I ended up cutting the trunk height by about half to find it though:

 

[Palmy Pal]

That’s good! That should hopefully push through! Just do like I said and put a clear container or baggie over the top of the trunk to keep it dry. You should see it push up after about a week or so. Maybe less! I’ve seen them come back when cut to the ground so that guy has a good chance for sure. 

[Jimhardy]

I think the palm is done unfortunately....and you will need to cut more

as you really need at the very least to have the whole center be apple white.

Bummer,I love Waggies.....this is always the dilemma with core damage...

to cut or not to cut that is the question..weather it is nobler? in the yard? to let

the palm suffer the slings and arrows of a winter weather gone mad,or to take up saws

against a sea of crown rot and by cutting, somehow end this.

[Palmy Pal]

16 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

I think the palm is done unfortunately....and you will need to cut more

as you really need at the very least to have the whole center be apple white.

Bummer,I love Waggies.....this is always the dilemma with core damage...

to cut or not to cut that is the question..weather it is nobler? in the yard? to let

the palm suffer the slings and arrows of a winter weather gone mad,or to take up saws

against a sea of crown rot and by cutting, somehow end this.

Yeah what he said ^^ I was to focused on the white center core there and I didn’t realize how dark brown it was around it. But I think there is still a chance it could come back from that because that rotted tissue now has a better chance of drying out. But like Jim said I would try to cut it a bit farther down. They can grow back from a pretty low cut so don’t be scared with it. And it may seem harsh but they will grow back quick when it comes to trunk cutting. Yours has a pretty tall trunk so you have some room to work with. I have a smaller palm that rotted and is now growing back without cutting and I had no where near as much trunk to work with as you do and that’s where things can become tricky because rot can spread fast and on a small trunk it can reach the bottom in no time. So Atleast with yours there is still a decent chance it will come back. Fingers crossed! Keep us updated 

[Jimhardy]

yeah...hopefully it pulls through...always sad to lose a Waggie 

maybe its time to think about shining a bright light down in there to check...in the future

not sure that would work, so...anyway

its always tough to tell when to cut because you just can't see down in there..

as a rule though,I think the second pull(what I would call core pull) is usually a good

indication of the palms losing the rot race...you really have to watch the next set of leaves

and see if they close up but even then with that being a solid indication of trouble it can be to late.

Once you have operated though I do think you get a good idea of what happened and can

make the choice quicker next time and it esp helps when you see a palm come back from

cutting because it builds your confidence to take that step.

[Ben G.]

I cut it down another couple of inches today. Instead of having a white area the size of a dime (like the pictures above), it now has a white area around the size of a 50 cent piece. I could cut further if you think I should, but I can also just wait to see if any growth starts over the next few days.

[Allen]

2 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

I cut it down another couple of inches today. Instead of having a white area the size of a dime (like the pictures above), it now has a white area around the size of a 50 cent piece. I could cut further if you think I should, but I can also just wait to see if any growth starts over the next few days.

Sounds like a good place to stop.

[Jimhardy]

Thats sounds good...if you run out of characters -you have cut past the heart of the palm.

If it is good to go it usually only takes a day or 2 (sometimes hours) and you can see the new spear/spears lifting out the center.

Wahoo! good luck!

[Ben G.]

Here is the growth after 48 hours:

[Ben G.]

It looks like I can salvage it. I have been covering it during rain storms just to try to prevent any further rot.

[Allen]

1 minute ago, Ben OK said:

It looks like I can salvage it. I have been covering it during rain storms just to try to prevent any further rot.

Healthy sun exposed tissue won't rot easily.  One advantage of the trunk cut.  Looks like it has a chance.

[Jimhardy]

very cool...hopefully some warm weather to get it going.

That palms a fighter,I hope it wins- and now you are a surgeon and

an expert on trunk cutting

 

Just wanted to add that you were really close to the bottom of the core

of the palms heart so, really amazing its pushing up, lets cheer it on to keep going!

go go go 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Jimhardy

[Palmy Pal]

Nice! I hope it has a speedy recovery!

[Jimhardy]

Hows it looking now?  Is the center still growing out?

[Ben G.]

6 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Hows it looking now?  Is the center still growing out?

Still growing out well:

 

[Jimhardy]

Nice!  Hopefully it keeps going and opens some leaves soon.

[Ben G.]

Here is a quick update pic:

 

[Ben G.]

For comparison here is my C. radicalis after the same winter temps. Radicalis was in a more exposed location though:

 

[Ben G.]

I just thought I would give a late summer update of my trunk cut waggie. This summer had a nasty heat wave with about six weeks with no rain at all. During those six weeks high temps were between 97F and 106F daily. In spite of the heat wave my trunk cut waggie is pushing out it's 11th frond of the summer. Not bad given all it has been through:

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Ben OK
Typo

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 hour ago, Ben OK said:

my trunk cut waggie is pushing out it's 11th frond of the summer. Not bad given all it has been through:

Nice update , looks like you have a survivor. My 2 waggies both spear pulled after Palmageddon but I only had to use hydrogen peroxide to get them to pull through. 

T J