Palms in central Virginia

[Virginia Palms]

Howdy y’all! I’m a palm grower in central Virginia and I’ve got a few ideas to put out there to the palm world.
Firstly, with regard to zonation: I feel as though the usda hardiness zones need to be updated because as I’m sure some of y’all have noticed, there are plants and animals living and thriving in places they didn’t use too. For where I live near Charlottesville, Virginia, we haven’t reached a 7a temperature in the last 10-15 years at least, it’s been reliably 8a or above sometimes 8b or 9a some winters. Because of this, I’ve been able to grow palms and other tropical which have previously been a stranger to my area. For starters, I’ve had a red banana (Ensete maurelii) for 3 winters and it has had no protection and is supposedly a 9a plant. It has been acted like any other musabaju you might see in a cooler climate. Furthermore I have a Sabal palmetto that just breezed through a really nasty winter we had here with ZERO protection and little damage only to the tips. I’ve also had a Washingtonia robusta that I’ve had for 3 winters as well, 2 of those winters I’ve only had to cover it and protect it for only a few nights during February. This past winter was too gnarly for it being that we had a few nights in the upper teens so I did leave it covered, but it did really well overall. I have had for 3 years now a windmill palm which has never seen protection at all and it’s thriving. I’ve had a dozen or so Sabal seedlings in the ground for 4 or 5 years now and I’ve still got 7 of them. All those along with half a dozen sago palms which have survived 4 winters now. That’s just my own yard, in Charlottesville itself I’ve seen a ton of palmage! At the UVA campus there is an enormous southern live oak that’s been there for god knows how long, but it looks to be at least 50 years old. There’s a lot of musabaju bananas as well. One persons home I drive by frequently has a very large pindo palm, tons of sagos, windmills, needle palm, huge Sabal minors, and cannas and other smaller plants. I’ve seen a few windmills around town as well, one huge one and a few smaller ones. But I feel that the climate zones have shifted about to allow for a much wider verity of flora and fauna and I believe that it would be amazing too see some more palms and more exotic palms tried in central Virginia to spice things up a bit. Palmettos now should be better than marginal as should pintos and Mediterraneans.  In any case those are my thoughts on palms in the central Virginia region, please let me know if you have any experience with palms in this region and hardiness zone shifts and anything else pertaining to this conversation. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Virginia Palms
Had to add pictures

[GoatLockerGuns]

@Virginia Palms, welcome.  As someone who was born and raised in Virginia (Chesterfield), I would love to see pictures of your Charlottesville palms.

[Virginia Palms]

5 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

@Virginia Palms, welcome.  As someone who was born and raised in Virginia (Chesterfield), I would love to see pictures of your Charlottesville palms.

I just edited tho post with some pictures of the palms in my yard

[GoatLockerGuns]

5 minutes ago, Virginia Palms said:

I just edited tho post with some pictures of the palms in my yard

Last picture...palm at the top of the photo...is that Livistona chinensis?

[Virginia Palms]

10 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Last picture...palm at the top of the photo...is that Livistona chinensis?

Yep! Its been in the ground 4 years or so, but I do protect that one. It defoliated once but came back strong.

[GoatLockerGuns]

Looks like the last three winters have been mild for your area (relatively speaking).  Historical records for 2019 and previous would indicate a rather serious zone push operation though.

[Allen]

56 minutes ago, Virginia Palms said:

Howdy y’all! I’m a palm grower in central Virginia and I’ve got a few ideas to put out there to the palm world.
Firstly, with regard to zonation: I feel as though the usda hardiness zones need to be updated because as I’m sure some of y’all have noticed, there are plants and animals living and thriving in places they didn’t use too. For where I live near Charlottesville, Virginia, we haven’t reached a 7a temperature in the last 10-15 years at least, it’s been reliably 8a or above sometimes 8b or 9a some winters. Because of this, I’ve been able to grow palms and other tropical which have previously been a stranger to my area. For starters, I’ve had a red banana (Ensete maurelii) for 3 winters and it has had no protection and is supposedly a 9a plant. It has been acted like any other musabaju you might see in a cooler climate. Furthermore I have a Sabal palmetto that just breezed through a really nasty winter we had here with ZERO protection and little damage only to the tips. I’ve also had a Washingtonia robusta that I’ve had for 3 winters as well, 2 of those winters I’ve only had to cover it and protect it for only a few nights during February. This past winter was too gnarly for it being that we had a few nights in the upper teens so I did leave it covered, but it did really well overall. I have had for 3 years now a windmill palm which has never seen protection at all and it’s thriving. I’ve had a dozen or so Sabal seedlings in the ground for 4 or 5 years now and I’ve still got 7 of them. All those along with half a dozen sago palms which have survived 4 winters now. That’s just my own yard, in Charlottesville itself I’ve seen a ton of palmage! At the UVA campus there is an enormous southern live oak that’s been there for god knows how long, but it looks to be at least 50 years old. There’s a lot of musabaju bananas as well. One persons home I drive by frequently has a very large pindo palm, tons of sagos, windmills, needle palm, huge Sabal minors, and cannas and other smaller plants. I’ve seen a few windmills around town as well, one huge one and a few smaller ones. But I feel that the climate zones have shifted about to allow for a much wider verity of flora and fauna and I believe that it would be amazing too see some more palms and more exotic palms tried in central Virginia to spice things up a bit. Palmettos now should be better than marginal as should pintos and Mediterraneans.  In any case those are my thoughts on palms in the central Virginia region, please let me know if you have any experience with palms in this region and hardiness zone shifts and anything else pertaining to this conversation. 

 

Nice looking palms and welcome to the forum!   As you can see I'm all about zone pushing in 7A.  Be careful on temps as it only takes that one bad year to do you in without a plan.  I looked at your past temps and while some years you feel like temps haven't gone low in a a few years I saw multiple years where you dipped below 10F on multiple nights.  For example in 2018 lows nights of 8F, 6F, 3F, 2017 lows of 9F, 8F, 2015 lows of 7F, 10F, 2014 lows of 9F, 4F, 4, 6F, 7F, 5F.  Not trying to rain on the parade just looking realistically to prevent overdoing it there.  Stick to needle palms, Sabal minors and Trachycarpus for your primary plantings.  Experiment beyond that

Edited April 24, 2022 by Allen

[SeanK]

@Virginia Palms - I have to agree with Allen. The past 10 winters, there are two z7a and three z7b. And as he says, when one night goes to single digits, likely a second does also or you have 3 days below 32F.  I would plant 90% of the garden for z7a, then 10% with things you're willing to protect. 

[VA Jeff]

12 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Looks like the last three winters have been mild for your area (relatively speaking).  Historical records for 2019 and previous would indicate a rather serious zone push operation though.

Where do you find data in this convenient form?  I'd love to know a handy site to look places up.

[knikfar]

On 4/24/2022 at 12:23 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Looks like the last three winters have been mild for your area (relatively speaking).  Historical records for 2019 and previous would indicate a rather serious zone push operation though.

Agreed. I'm in Raleigh NC and butias are definitely marginal here. I wish they weren't but they are. There is a large Washy hybrid about an hour south of me in Fayetteville but Fayetteville is slightly warmer than Raleigh and every bit of temp difference can make a big difference in survival. I doubt any pure robusta or pure filifera would survive long term in Raleigh or Fayetteville. 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 4/24/2022 at 11:44 PM, VA Jeff said:

Where do you find data in this convenient form?  I'd love to know a handy site to look places up.

NOAA/NWS data from https://www.weather.gov/.

[Jtee]

1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

NOAA/NWS data from https://www.weather.gov/.

I’m trying to pull up that same chart from up above for Enterprise Alabama. Is that the same website used? 

[GoatLockerGuns]

48 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I’m trying to pull up that same chart from up above for Enterprise Alabama. Is that the same website used? 

Did not see that data for Enterprise.  Closest I could find was Dothan, Alabama.  They do not have this data chart for every area.

[GoatLockerGuns]

5 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Closest I could find was Dothan.

Also Geneva, Alabama:

[Jtee]

2 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Did not see that data for Enterprise.  Closest I could find was Dothan, Alabama.  They do not have this data chart for every area.

Close enough, we’re all in the same zone. Thanks goatlockerguns! You the goat!

Edited April 27, 2022 by Jtee

[Virginia Palms]

The temperature graph which was placed on here earlier must not have been for the Charlottesville VA area. I went on the website linked in this forum and found the correct temperature graph for the last 22 years. it paints a bit of a different picture overall.

[PalmTreeDude]

Looks good! I grow palms in Chesterfield County. I have Sabal minor (seedlings but starting to mature), Sabal palmetto (seedlings), Serenoa repens (seedling), my king palm (my only palm I protect, which obviously needs protection in Virginia), a fairly decent sized Rhapidophyllum hystrix, and Chamaerops humilis in the ground. I tried four Butias and I could only get them to live a few winters before they finally got zapped by the cold. I have some other palms in pots too that I’ll probably plant. 

[EJPalm05]

On 4/24/2022 at 11:37 AM, Virginia Palms said:

Howdy y’all! I’m a palm grower in central Virginia and I’ve got a few ideas to put out there to the palm world.
Firstly, with regard to zonation: I feel as though the usda hardiness zones need to be updated because as I’m sure some of y’all have noticed, there are plants and animals living and thriving in places they didn’t use too. For where I live near Charlottesville, Virginia, we haven’t reached a 7a temperature in the last 10-15 years at least, it’s been reliably 8a or above sometimes 8b or 9a some winters. Because of this, I’ve been able to grow palms and other tropical which have previously been a stranger to my area. For starters, I’ve had a red banana (Ensete maurelii) for 3 winters and it has had no protection and is supposedly a 9a plant. It has been acted like any other musabaju you might see in a cooler climate. Furthermore I have a Sabal palmetto that just breezed through a really nasty winter we had here with ZERO protection and little damage only to the tips. I’ve also had a Washingtonia robusta that I’ve had for 3 winters as well, 2 of those winters I’ve only had to cover it and protect it for only a few nights during February. This past winter was too gnarly for it being that we had a few nights in the upper teens so I did leave it covered, but it did really well overall. I have had for 3 years now a windmill palm which has never seen protection at all and it’s thriving. I’ve had a dozen or so Sabal seedlings in the ground for 4 or 5 years now and I’ve still got 7 of them. All those along with half a dozen sago palms which have survived 4 winters now. That’s just my own yard, in Charlottesville itself I’ve seen a ton of palmage! At the UVA campus there is an enormous southern live oak that’s been there for god knows how long, but it looks to be at least 50 years old. There’s a lot of musabaju bananas as well. One persons home I drive by frequently has a very large pindo palm, tons of sagos, windmills, needle palm, huge Sabal minors, and cannas and other smaller plants. I’ve seen a few windmills around town as well, one huge one and a few smaller ones. But I feel that the climate zones have shifted about to allow for a much wider verity of flora and fauna and I believe that it would be amazing too see some more palms and more exotic palms tried in central Virginia to spice things up a bit. Palmettos now should be better than marginal as should pintos and Mediterraneans.  In any case those are my thoughts on palms in the central Virginia region, please let me know if you have any experience with palms in this region and hardiness zone shifts and anything else pertaining to this conversation. 

oh wow! I've watched your videos on YouTube for a few years!