Sabal uresana seed size?

[Dartolution]

Is anyone aware of any literature that describes sabal uresana seed size? 

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

Is anyone aware of any literature that describes sabal uresana seed size? 

 

 

Palmpedia has a a somewhat blurry picture of the seed / better picture of some old fruits that look right, but haven't found anything else yet ( searching through iNat, SEINet ) 

These were seed collected off a S. uresana specimen in Tucson last year..   Unfortunately, i didn't think to get pictures w/ the seed sitting on a ruler / Tape measure to get a more accurate measurement of size. Close to the size of a Dime, or just a tad larger regardless.  Much bigger than i'd have thought, based on the size of other Sabal seed i have collected / germinated in the past.



A single seed found below another specimen at Boyce Thompson was roughly the same size as well ( no picture of it )

Of the seed collected, 2 have leaves up, 2 more are sprouted, but no leaf poking out of the soil yet ..and recently planted the last 3.


 

[Dartolution]

12 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Close to the size of a Dime, or just a tad larger regardless.  Much bigger than i'd have thought, based on the size of other Sabal seed i have collected / germinated in the past.

@Silas_Sancona Do you mean with fruit or pulp removed? 

[Silas_Sancona]

43 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@Silas_Sancona Do you mean with fruit or pulp removed? 

Just the seed..  Noticed when i took them out from the " fruit " there really wasn't much pulp, etc surrounding the seed.. More air in the space between than anything else. 

Maybe not dime- sized, but pretty close..  Just took this.




 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[Dartolution]

@Silas_Sancona Those are quite large indeed! 

[Silas_Sancona]

40 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@Silas_Sancona Those are quite large indeed! 

Thought the same thing when looking around online after i got home that day, thinking they might be something else,. That said,   place they came from is very good about labeling and there are no other Sabal sp. in the same area, except uresana.. both the coastal, more greenish colored specimens, and the higher elevation, silvery / blue toned form.

Only other palms in the same area are Washingtonia and various Brahea. 



 

[Dartolution]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:53 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Thought the same thing when looking around online after i got home that day, thinking they might be something else,. That said,   place they came from is very good about labeling and there are no other Sabal sp. in the same area, except uresana.. both the coastal, more greenish colored specimens, and the higher elevation, silvery / blue toned form.

Only other palms in the same area are Washingtonia and various Brahea. 



 

@Silas_Sancona If you're ever able to get seed from the high elevation form, please keep me in mind. 

Do you think that the seed size you collected is standard for the species? I have not been able to find any identifying information online unfortunately. 

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@Silas_Sancona If you're ever able to get seed from the high elevation form, please keep me in mind. 

Do you think that the seed size you collected is standard for the species? I have not been able to find any identifying information online unfortunately. 

 

 

Will do..  If i see more next time i'm down there, will let you know.

  That's the big question i've been wondering as well.. and for the same reason you mention.  There are some other S. uresana at another place nearby where i was able to find a single seed that was about as large.. In that garden however, there are a couple other Sabal sp in the same display, so it's tough to say if that one would be pure. Other seed i found off whatever Sabal was shedding them nearby were much smaller ..in the S. minor  range,  and only some Brahea  had seed on them that would be in the size of the seed i found. Obviously, a different shaped fruit / seed on Brahea though.


@Tom in Tucson  Any thoughts you might be able to add?



 

[Dartolution]

Are sabal seeds size dependent on the palms maturity? Meaning, as the larger the palm gets, the larger the seed?
I don't believe thats the case - I cant remember reading anything about that, but thought I would ask.

 

[steve617]

I've germinated several s. Palmetto and they look to me about same size as minor. I did have a friend send me about 3000 sabal minor seeds. I went thru and choose 15 of the largest seeds, just to see how they will do vs others. Also bought some seeds. Blackburniana seeds they were also massive. I tend to think it's the type characteristics on seed size to the most part. 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Dartolution said:

Are sabal seeds size dependent on the palms maturity? Meaning, as the larger the palm gets, the larger the seed?
I don't believe thats the case - I cant remember reading anything about that, but thought I would ask.

 

Don't believe that's the case either, ..doesn't seem to be in what i have noticed w/ uresana. Specimen the seed came from were flowering/ setting fruit at a very short size.. ( pictures below )

  Have seen large ones w/ plenty of old flower stalks, but never any seed. Most famous is the specimen in St. Pete ( FL )  big / mature specimen, Appears to flower a lot yearly, but never once saw seed on it / found any seed below it. Can see in pic. #3 it isn't surrounded by anything so you'd think it would be easy to find seeds ..or the remnants of the fruit  below at some point during a couple years of checking on it while visiting the overall collection there.  It that case, pretty much every other known Sabal sp. is nearby so no idea of seed of that one would be pure or how pollen from them might influence seed development on this uresana ( if it does ).


Might be hard to see but there are seed stalks on these specimens that had remnants of fruit on them.  Couple others in the garden here also had seed stalks at this size.  Pretty sure the 2nd specimen may be the one that the seed i found came off.. ( fruit/ seed was found on the right side of the stream next to it )


Compare these to the big, old specimen at Kopsick in St. Pete. ( Picture #3. ) taken: 12/ 24 / 14.