Are my King Palms Under-watered? Or is this a nutrient deficiency?

[Mat_Sheets]

I have been struggling with these palms because I don’t know what I’m doing. I live in Southern California (Fallbrook) and my soil is practically all clay. These king palms are 9 months old. When they were planted in September last year, I overwatered them heavily and one died of root rot. These 2 in the picture managed to survive, and now look decent. But they started turning yellow / brown in March. I admit I was not watering them much in Jan-Feb-Mar because I had just killed the other Palm with overwatering. Now I am giving them 4 gallons once or twice a week. I have (2) 2gph emitters on them. Also what’s weird is the new fronds. Can you see how it’s dark green on the sides of each leaf but light green/yellow in the middle? That makes me wonder about nutrients. I did fertilize these palms once 1.5 months ago but I did it wrong. I only put the fertilizer in a circle along the drip line, I did not put any between the drip line and the trunk. I used Miracle Gro Palm (3 month feed). Let me know how much I should water these puppies and if you think they are lacking nutrients. Thanks for your help!

-Mat

[ahosey01]

Idk about where you're at - not as hot as us - but here in AZ I water my water-hungriest palms on 2-4x 2gph emitters for six hours at a time, 3x a week (unless we get over 110F, then I kick it up to 4x a week).  That's between 24 and 48 gallons per palm per watering.

[Gottagrowemall]

I have a couple king palms that are singles in central Florida and I had similar issues. My browning was from frost damage but they look similar. Unfortunately I am so unfamiliar with clay soil I can’t answer effectively. I would say if they’re pushing new growth then you don’t need to worry about root rot anymore because the roots have connected to the soil. In my sandy Florida soil which is partially amended we cannot overwater a king palm. You could leave the hose on accidentally for 3 days and I don’t think they would be damaged. I would mist the leaves during the super hot part of the day when you can I feel like that helps mine.

[Mat_Sheets]

4 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Idk about where you're at - not as hot as us - but here in AZ I water my water-hungriest palms on 2-4x 2gph emitters for six hours at a time, 3x a week (unless we get over 110F, then I kick it up to 4x a week).  That's between 24 and 48 gallons per palm per watering.

Oh yea 24 a week is too much for me. Hoping someone in my area can tell me exactly what they do. My clay soil makes watering plants a completely different story. Thanks for your input!

[Mat_Sheets]

4 hours ago, Gottagrowemall said:

I have a couple king palms that are singles in central Florida and I had similar issues. My browning was from frost damage but they look similar. Unfortunately I am so unfamiliar with clay soil I can’t answer effectively. I would say if they’re pushing new growth then you don’t need to worry about root rot anymore because the roots have connected to the soil. In my sandy Florida soil which is partially amended we cannot overwater a king palm. You could leave the hose on accidentally for 3 days and I don’t think they would be damaged. I would mist the leaves during the super hot part of the day when you can I feel like that helps mine.

Yea this clay soil never fully dries out. You couldn’t not water for a month and it’ll be moist. I have a moisture meter that is worthless because it always reads moist no matter where you stick it in the ground! It’s nuts!

[ahosey01]

12 minutes ago, Mat_Sheets said:

Oh yea 24 a week is too much for me. Hoping someone in my area can tell me exactly what they do. My clay soil makes watering plants a completely different story. Thanks for your input!

I do, however have a clay alluvial soil that stays moist here in the river valley.  There's definitely a difference but it may not be quite so huge.

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, Mat_Sheets said:

I have been struggling with these palms because I don’t know what I’m doing. I live in Southern California (Fallbrook) and my soil is practically all clay. These king palms are 9 months old. When they were planted in September last year, I overwatered them heavily and one died of root rot. These 2 in the picture managed to survive, and now look decent. But they started turning yellow / brown in March. I admit I was not watering them much in Jan-Feb-Mar because I had just killed the other Palm with overwatering. Now I am giving them 4 gallons once or twice a week. I have (2) 2gph emitters on them. Also what’s weird is the new fronds. Can you see how it’s dark green on the sides of each leaf but light green/yellow in the middle? That makes me wonder about nutrients. I did fertilize these palms once 1.5 months ago but I did it wrong. I only put the fertilizer in a circle along the drip line, I did not put any between the drip line and the trunk. I used Miracle Gro Palm (3 month feed). Let me know how much I should water these puppies and if you think they are lacking nutrients. Thanks for your help!

-Mat

Matt, Welcome to the Forum..

being in AZ, probably not the best person to answer your question on watering, but would look over posts made by @Jim in Los Altos  and others created by your fellow San Diego Palm talk members " ( too many names to add here ) for sound advise on watering these..  Jim himself has some kings growing in water, w/ no ill effects up in Nor Cal.  Growing up not terribly far from where he is located, in San Jose, soil in my part of town was heavy clay.  Tough to work, but water loving things loved it, inc. what few good looking kings were around.

[Mat_Sheets]

24 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Matt, Welcome to the Forum..

being in AZ, probably not the best person to answer your question on watering, but would look over posts made by @Jim in Los Altos  and others created by your fellow San Diego Palm talk members " ( too many names to add here ) for sound advise on watering these..  Jim himself has some kings growing in water, w/ no ill effects up in Nor Cal.  Growing up not terribly far from where he is located, in San Jose, soil in my part of town was heavy clay.  Tough to work, but water loving things loved it, inc. what few good looking kings were around.

That is great advice, I’ll check out Jim’s posts! Its starting to look like I just need to water these more! Thanks for the help! 

[RedRabbit]

Those looked like mine after getting too much sun. All but one eventually died…

Regarding wagering, it’s true you can’t over water them. As I’ve mentioned before here, I had kings that were in an area that flooded for 2-3 weeks and they weren’t phased by it.

[stingray]

Those Kings look like they're sunburned.  After the newest growth opens up in the sun they should be fine. You could probably pour a 5g bucket on them every 3rd day without any issues. Make sure the rootball is actually getting hydrated and not just the surrounding soil. I've had that happen to me a few times. I like to put a hose on top of the rootball and let it trickle for a bit that way I know the water is going where I want it. 

I've come to believe that even if a hole you have dug takes a few hours to a day to soak in completely that is good enough. But as has been mentioned Kings do like the water. I'm not a fan of overhead irrigation though, there's too much of a chance that the crown will rot out if water cannot dry out fast enough.

Edited May 23, 2022 by stingray

[Mat_Sheets]

1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

Those looked like mine after getting too much sun. All but one eventually died…

Regarding wagering, it’s true you can’t over water them. As I’ve mentioned before here, I had kings that were in an area that flooded for 2-3 weeks and they weren’t phased by it.

Yea I think they were sub burnt as they are in full sun all day long. But it’s very good to hear they can withstand flooding. I will bump up the water and see how they do!

[Mat_Sheets]

34 minutes ago, stingray said:

Those Kings look like they're sunburned.  After the newest growth opens up in the sun they should be fine. You could probably pour a 5g bucket on them every 3rd day without any issues. Make sure the rootball is actually getting hydrated and not just the surrounding soil. I've had that happen to me a few times. I like to put a hose on top of the rootball and let it trickle for a bit that way I know the water is going where I want it. 

I've come to believe that even if a hole you have dug takes a few hours to a day to soak in completely that is good enough. But as has been mentioned Kings do like the water. I'm not a fan of overhead irrigation though, there's too much of a chance that the crown will rot out if water cannot dry out fast enough.

Thanks for the advice. I have the drip emitters about 1.5 feet away from the trunk and I dug a moat around the entire palm the same distance from the trunk. So the water spreads the full diameter of the drip line while it soaks into the ground. But that 1.5 foot area between the moat and the trunk does not get any water. I’m sure the roots extend past 1.5 feet from the trunk, so I think they are getting water. But I could take a hose to the rest of the tree once a week to make sure

[ahosey01]

12 hours ago, Mat_Sheets said:

Thanks for the advice. I have the drip emitters about 1.5 feet away from the trunk and I dug a moat around the entire palm the same distance from the trunk. So the water spreads the full diameter of the drip line while it soaks into the ground. But that 1.5 foot area between the moat and the trunk does not get any water. I’m sure the roots extend past 1.5 feet from the trunk, so I think they are getting water. But I could take a hose to the rest of the tree once a week to make sure

I have no experience with Archontophoenix but if what the other PTers are saying is true - that it's sunburned - the remedy for that is one of two things (or both): less sun, or more water in the soil to give the plant more water to use up, and also to keep root zone temps lower.

Here in AZ, there are many tree species that will get sunburned entirely based on the planting setting.  Bauhinia blakeana, as an example, could get precisely the same amount of water and the same amount of sun in a sandy xeriscape setting vs. a mesic setting with thick turf or mulch around the root zone.  The one in the first setting will almost certainly have sunburned foliage, the one in the second setting will almost certainly not.

All of it has to do with the availability of water and root zone temperatures.  People that grow avocadoes successfully here in the low desert do so with PILES of mulch in the root zone for precisely this reason.

[Mat_Sheets]

8 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I have no experience with Archontophoenix but if what the other PTers are saying is true - that it's sunburned - the remedy for that is one of two things (or both): less sun, or more water in the soil to give the plant more water to use up, and also to keep root zone temps lower.

Here in AZ, there are many tree species that will get sunburned entirely based on the planting setting.  Bauhinia blakeana, as an example, could get precisely the same amount of water and the same amount of sun in a sandy xeriscape setting vs. a mesic setting with thick turf or mulch around the root zone.  The one in the first setting will almost certainly have sunburned foliage, the one in the second setting will almost certainly not.

All of it has to do with the availability of water and root zone temperatures.  People that grow avocadoes successfully here in the low desert do so with PILES of mulch in the root zone for precisely this reason.

Oh wow interesting! Thanks for that! There’s now no doubt in my mind that they will be much better with more water

[Mat_Sheets]

I feel much better now about these palms. I’m gonna crank up the water and apply it twice a week and see how they do m’n thanks everyone!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Mat_Sheets
Wrong comment

[Bennie]

What ended up happening with these @Mat_Sheets? 

[Jegs]

Little late to the reply, but archontophoenix can’t tolerate much sun when young and love water. I’m not sure if you can water enough to compensate for how much King Palms don’t like sun. 

I have an Archontophoenix Purpurea and I had to move it from 6-8 hours of sun, to 1-2 hours of sun and it started doing 1,000 times better. 
 

I live in Alabama so June-July = 80-95 degrees.

They couldn’t stand 85 degree days in June in a lot of sun. 
The leaves immediately started dropping and dying after about 3 days, so I moved it to extreme shade.