Hedyscepe canterburyana germination

[Fallen Munk]

Back in April @TheMadScientist generously sent me some fresh seeds.   They are already starting to pop roots!  When they arrived, I put the seeds in the same composting leaf much that I had my Parajubaea torallyi seeds that I kept throwing old banana peels in an attempt to rot the fruit off.   I kept them in that bucket through May and then peeled off the loose fruit and potted them up in June.  I put them in the shade behind my garage and one month later and they are starting to germinate.  It's been a cool spring and summer so far, so these guys like the cool temps to germinate. 

I can't thank @TheMadScientist enough for allowing me the opportunity to work with this species!

 

[Fallen Munk]

Here's the fruit bucket I put them in for six weeks to rot the fruit off.  The green seeds are P. torallyi (var. microcarpa).  I hadn't added the Hedy seeds at this point.

[TheMadScientist]

I'm so happy that someone had success.  I've not given up YET.  In the middle of my 100+ deg. F temps, I have had to create a unique micro-climate to use an old styrofoam Omaha Steak container with lid adding custom created ice cubes twice a day to keep my temp. around 57 to 60 deg. F suggested from some of the smartest PT Members.  My community pots are 2 liter soda containers, 5 drain holes in the bottom of the feet and I learned the first day with those drain holes, my peat moss/perlite mix "wicks"  the melted ice cubes liquid back into the pot keeping them really wet,,,,,SO, I sat those pots into 4 inch tall zip lock plastic food containers to keep the water out.  Sour Cream containers and cool Whip containers are used to make these large ice cubes within 12 hours twice a day......BUT STILL NO CIGARS OR SHOULD I SAY "SPROUTS".

Edited July 6, 2022 by TheMadScientist

[Fallen Munk]

1 hour ago, TheMadScientist said:

I'm so happy that someone had success.  I've not given up YET.  In the middle of my 100+ deg. F temps, I have had to create a unique micro-climate to use an old styrofoam Omaha Steak container with lid adding custom created ice cubes twice a day 

So far we've had several days approaching 100 F.  I never worried about it.  I just made sure they were damp and in the shade.  I assumed that these would just sit dormant all summer until cooler temps in the fall.  Which is probably about when they will all be showing a strap leaf in late September or early October.

Every report I've come across says germination occurs in cool weather.  I think people are just reporting when they see the first bit of green above ground.  Actual germination is probably during warmer weather with all the action happening underground.

So I wouldn't stress about warm temps as long as they stay damp and totally out of the sun.

[Fallen Munk]

I left fruit on a few of these but they didn't seem to be doing anything so I gently started to peel it off.  To my surprise, the root has emerged.  On closer inspection, the fruit provides an air cavity at the end the embryo is on.  So the fruit may play an important part in the safe germination because it protects the emerging root from damage and predation by insects and also does not allow overly wet substrates to come in direct contact with it so it avoids the chance of rot.  I'm discovering that sometimes trying to outsmart mother nature is not the best thing.

If you examine the photo carefully you will see that the fruit forms an empty air pocket for the root to emerge into.  So trying to ripen and soften the fruit might be crucial to speed up the process to allow water into the seed, but leaving the soft fruit on is probably a good idea.

[Fallen Munk]

These seeds like it hot, just keep them out of full sun.  We are preparing for our fifth heatwave.  We've had so much brutal heat this year and these seeds love it.  Previous reports of requiring cold temperatures for germination are overstated.  Updated photo to show the root and start of the first spear emerging.  From this photo you can see how important it is to keep the fruit on.  The fruit protects the emerging embryo.  The few that I removed the fruit from failed. 

Hopefully this brings some new understanding to successful germination of this awesome palm.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Thanks to @TheMadScientistwho gave me these as well.  They only recently germinated, only 4 of them so far.  They're in the shade under the porch in a sealed container.  I tried leaving the fruit on half but they molded, so I ended up defruiting all and removing the fibrous endocarp.  I came up with(what I believe to be) a good process for this which I documented on my YouTube channel.  

The tips of the radicals I would call praemorse, not tapered like most palms.  I hope they continue to grow. 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[BeyondTheGarden]

Looking back at the pics from @Fallen Munk, it appears that the radical emerges from the "nipple side" in the dead space/ air gap that I'm revealing in my process.  

[TheMadScientist]

This is exciting to read and watch a great video.  Now I hope for further development of each seed.  I'm still trying, but I'm having to create a micro climate protected from what seems like a month of over 100 deg. F and today was 112 deg. F.  Looking forward to the future posts by both germination successes.

[BeyondTheGarden]

This summer, the normal temps seem to be 58f minimum (7AM) up to 90f (4PM).  These are roughly the average lows and highs.  Like @Fallen MunkI'm not convinced that they need cold temps, as they did not germinate until they'd been at these temps for a couple of months.  However it may be possible that they don't like high temperatures.  

The seeds that were surface-sown and not in a closed container did not germinate, or at least, they haven't yet.  I'm hoping for more germination yet to come. 

Again, @TheMadScientist, thank you for sharing these with me!  What an opportunity! 

[Darold Petty]

Here is what works for me !

I do not bother to clean off the epicarp and mesocarp.  I use 2 parts perlite and 1 part peat, in a container about 6 inches deep.  It is very difficult to wet the bone dry peat at first.  I use a commercial surfactant, but dish soap works also.  Place the seed container into a larger container and water from the bottom up, slowly, with several applications of water into the larger container.

I sow the seeds over a base layer of medium about 2.5 inches deep, and then 1 inch more of the medium on top.  Do not use bottom heat.  Cover the container with clear, kitchen plastic wrap to retard evaporation and then wait 6-8 months. 

  I use a plastic dish tray about 11x13x5.5 inches.  You can space the seeds closely together.  The seeds germinate sporadically over  a long period of time.

Once the 'pencil point' spike appears, gently tease out the sprouted seed and install in a normal potting soil in a minimum 4x4x5.5 inch pot.   Do this promptly after the spike appears so that the roots are still small and compact.

good luck !

Darold 

PS  The eophyll of Hedyscepe is fully pinnate, very cool !

[Fallen Munk]

The first spikes above soil are emerging.  I moved them to full sun the first week of September.  We've had high temps in the 90s F.

[Fallen Munk]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:04 PM, Jesse PNW said:

   I tried leaving the fruit on half but they molded, so I ended up defruiting all and removing the fibrous endocarp. 

How are yours coming along?  I've had a bunch fail and they were all seeds that I removed the fruit from.  I'm so glad that I didn't strip them all!  Usually when I germinate seeds that I'm unfamiliar with, I try different methods so that I limit the risk of losing them all.  

[BeyondTheGarden]

Slow and steady.  A 5th seed now has a radical emerging. 

I would like to move them into my growbox since the humidity stays higher there.  But I'm afraid to move them out of the container until they start putting out a cotyledon or maybe even a first strap leaf. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

A month has passed, Still have 5 cotyledons, I moved them under a weak grow light (still in the closed container) and they're starting to turn green and fattening up.  Hoping the first eophyll will emerge soon. 

[Fallen Munk]

I think I've got a dozen or more, but it's tough to judge because I've got Hydroton clay balls very deep over mine to keep the squirrels from digging them up.  They still managed to dig up a couple of them anyway, so I moved them to spot where I can keep my eye on them better.  I'm keeping mine outside until we get first frost and then I'll bring them in under a grow light for the winter.

[BeyondTheGarden]

27 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I think I've got a dozen or more, but it's tough to judge because I've got Hydroton clay balls very deep over mine to keep the squirrels from digging them up.  They still managed to dig up a couple of them anyway, so I moved them to spot where I can keep my eye on them better.  I'm keeping mine outside until we get first frost and then I'll bring them in under a grow light for the winter.

Nice, you had better germ rates than I did!  Hopefully future growers will benefit from your findings. 

I like that "hydroton" product a lot, I mix it with wood bark (miracle grow brand "Orchid Bark") for my fast-draining mixes. 

[Fallen Munk]

18 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Nice, you had better germ rates than I did!  Hopefully future growers will benefit from your findings. 

I like that "hydroton" product a lot, I mix it with wood bark (miracle grow brand "Orchid Bark") for my fast-draining mixes. 

Thanks!  I tried a few different methods and lost some because of it.  But we learned a lot in the process!  If I ever have the fortune of working with more of these seeds in the future, I know how to do it now.  I still have more seeds buried deep that I don't want to disturb so there should be more to come.

 

[Darold Petty]

I think you guys are fortunate to obtain any germination from the seed with green epicarp shown earlier in this thread. 

Hedyscepe seeds that are fully mature have a red epicarp.  Seed that is not fully mature is much more likely to fail.   

[BeyondTheGarden]

I just re-watched my video on cleaning these seeds.  Unfortunately I don't have any pics or video of the skin, but in my video, I stated, "If you soak them for a week... you can scrape them with a spoon and pull off the red skin".  So evidently, the skins on mine were red. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

And BTW @Darold Petty, I love the use of chicken wire to protect those seeds!  On one hand, gardening can be a rich man's hobby.  LED Grow lights, digital monitors, irrigation timers, the latest polyaramid-reinforced, polyethylene-lined tubing with the latest inter-locking metered drippers with adjustable GPH flow rates, etc.  On the other hand, you can do everything on the cheap.  Bailing twine, chicken wire, garden hose repair kits, mini drill bits, etc.  Growing plants doesn't have to necessarily cost much. 

[Darold Petty]

In my cool, humid microclimate the seeds take forever to mature.  They are safe while green but once the epicarp starts to change color the seeds are at risk of predation by roof rats (Rattus rattus).  The rats will consume  the whole crop in just 2 or 3 nights.  (Ask me how I know this, !    )   Now I use the wire from the beginning, just after pollination.  At this time the rachillae are more flexible and easier to conform within the wire basket as well.   

 

 

[Fallen Munk]

20 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

I think you guys are fortunate to obtain any germination from the seed with green epicarp shown earlier in this thread. 

Hedyscepe seeds that are fully mature have a red epicarp.  Seed that is not fully mature is much more likely to fail.   

Mine were all red.  Sorry for the confusion, those green seeds in that photo were P. torallyi prior to adding the Hedyscepe seeds to the bucket.  So far none of the torallyi have sprouted.  Those things are stubborn compared to the Hedyscepe.

[Darold Petty]

Yikes, senior moment, I need to read these threads more carefully !   

  Since it is Halloween, here is a scary image,... rat predation of Hedyscepe,     BOO!!    

[Fallen Munk]

12 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Since it is Halloween, here is a scary image,... rat predation of Hedyscepe,     BOO!!    

That's what squirrels did to a few of mine.  So depressing.  They tried that with my torallyi seeds too but those shells are so tough that they can't crack them.  But they will steal them and hide them.  My neighbors might have some palm trees sprouting in the near future. 

 

[tinman10101]

@Darold Petty can we see the whole pic of the momma.    i love hedescepes and only dream of having a flowering one in my yard before i die. lol

[Darold Petty]

Tin, I will  post an image tomorrow, Thursday.   

[Darold Petty]

Here you see one of my adult Hedyscepe palms.  This one shows an active spadix and a spadix with nearly mature seeds.  The foreground foliage is a second generation Hedyscepe from a different adult.    (Please don't inquire about these seeds, as they have all been allocated already.)  

[BeyondTheGarden]

These continue to move, albeit slowly.  They're kinda strange, new growth (cotelydon?) Comes out green but fades to this brownish purple color.  Not sure what's up with that.  I think I have an eophyl emerging now on the largest. 

[Fallen Munk]

Mine have leaves.  Forgive the weird lighting.  Grow lights.

[BeyondTheGarden]

That's amazing, yours have grown way faster than mine!

[Fallen Munk]

3 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

That's amazing, yours have grown way faster than mine!

As soon as they got spears, I gave them bottom heat with grow lights.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Well since you've had good luck with heat and light, I moved one into the growbox.  We'll see how it likes heat and humidity.  The rest I removed from the community container into individual pots, since the roots were starting to lift themselves from the soil.  I seem to have lost one, I don't know why but for me seedlings seem to randomly die without cause.  Small seedlings make me a little uncomfortable, I feel much better about a seedling after it has several strap leaves.