Dypsis Decipiens Hybrids

[Hilo Jason]

On 7/28/2022 at 5:24 PM, Hilo Jason said:

Finally made it out to the property to work and took these pictures of the Decipiens hybrid. This is from the same batch that Josh O had and Stacey bought from him. Most likely crossed with Onilahensis. 
 

Not the easiest Palm to photograph since it’s split twice into 4 total plants now. So there are somewhat stiff fronds all over the place at this height. 

Pretty fast grower. I dug this out of my Hilo garden, had it in a 15 gallon pot for 9 months and then planted out in full blasting sun, close to the ocean. Had a spear pull and pushed right through that. 

Best described as a somewhat beefier Onilahensis with stiff leaflets. 

 

Updated photo of mine:

[iDesign]

13 hours ago, BayAndroid said:

What was your lowest temperature? Just curious, I have a regular Decipiens I just planted in the ground this Summer. Hoping they hold up well in my conditions. 

This winter didn't hit any record lows... was just cold for a long time. And really wet (which is what made it unusual).  As for what did the leaf damage (sun vs cold vs ?) I'm not sure, but my husband just pointed out that it was also pressed against a glass fence, which is why we were moving it. The plant looks really healthy so I'm not going to worry about it. Oh, and I also own two regular Decipiens and those did fine through the winter (no damage that I can see).

[iDesign]

1 hour ago, Hilo Jason said:

Updated photo of mine:

#Goals

[BayAndroid]

2 hours ago, iDesign said:

This winter didn't hit any record lows... was just cold for a long time. And really wet (which is what made it unusual).  As for what did the leaf damage (sun vs cold vs ?) I'm not sure, but my husband just pointed out that it was also pressed against a glass fence, which is why we were moving it. The plant looks really healthy so I'm not going to worry about it. Oh, and I also own two regular Decipiens and those did fine through the winter (no damage that I can see).

Based on the specific areas of burn, I'm going to say that was definitely heat related. 

[Hilo Jason]

3 hours ago, iDesign said:

#Goals

I’ll try to take some better photos soon. Still need to clear that area out a bit and be around when the lighting is better. 

[ExperimentalGrower]

One last and final update for the year. Fingers crossed this will be a mild winter.

 

[Hilo Jason]

I was able to visit the garden where these Decipiens hybrid seed originated from. In the past I wrongly said that these were crossed with Onilahensis. Turns out the cross looks to be some sort of Madagascariensis type. The lighting wasn’t good but I wanted to share a couple pictures of the parent plants. 

large mult-trunk decipiens on left that the seed came from, and Madagascariensis type behind it to the right.

and a picture of just the Madagascariensis:

I’m surprised that it seems like all of the hybrids have regular leaflets so far, at least from the pictures I’ve seen here.  Usually when Madagascariensis is involved, leaflets tend to go irregular. It will be interesting to see what these continue to mature into as they grow. 

 

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:22 AM, Hilo Jason said:

I was able to visit the garden where these Decipiens hybrid seed originated from. In the past I wrongly said that these were crossed with Onilahensis. Turns out the cross looks to be some sort of Madagascariensis type. The lighting wasn’t good but I wanted to share a couple pictures of the parent plants. 

large mult-trunk decipiens on left that the seed came from, and Madagascariensis type behind it to the right.

and a picture of just the Madagascariensis:

I’m surprised that it seems like all of the hybrids have regular leaflets so far, at least from the pictures I’ve seen here.  Usually when Madagascariensis is involved, leaflets tend to go irregular. It will be interesting to see what these continue to mature into as they grow. 

 

Not sure that mine is a part of that bunch..? None of the leaves on mine are showing any plumose tendencies.

[JasonD]

On 7/15/2023 at 4:01 PM, ExperimentalGrower said:

Looks like a four trunker so far, ones about to split.

We had a small crop a little while back of a Chrysalidocarpus (Dypsis back then) decipiens hybrid that yours resembles. I think we got the seedlings from Kevin Weaver in Lake Elsinore. They have been successful in San Francisco and Oakland, vigorous and hold their color nicely. Not super fast but not super slow like pure decipiens. Hope maybe the seed will be viable for an F2 crop someday.

[ExperimentalGrower]

1 hour ago, JasonD said:

We had a small crop a little while back of a Chrysalidocarpus (Dypsis back then) decipiens hybrid that yours resembles. I think we got the seedlings from Kevin Weaver in Lake Elsinore. They have been successful in San Francisco and Oakland, vigorous and hold their color nicely. Not super fast but not super slow like pure decipiens. Hope maybe the seed will be viable for an F2 crop someday.

That’s right, this one is from that batch. Picked it up from FG several years back. So far growing well in Vallejo for me. I think they planted one from that same batch at Ruth Bancroft Garden as well. Same growth pattern exhibited at RGB albeit growing slower by the look of it. Anymore idea what may have been crossed with the decipiens @JasonD?

[Hilo Jason]

First flower on my Decipiens hybrid and it’s massive!  And the crown shafts are developing a nice lime green color to them. 

Entire plant:

[Palmiz]

2 hours ago, Hilo Jason said:

First flower on my Decipiens hybrid and it’s massive!  And the crown shafts are developing a nice lime green color to them. 

Entire plant:

Mind blowing how fast things grow for you looking back at the size of it 2 years ago. Also having a setback spear pull is even more crazy. Hope the seeds are viable, is it true that hybrids are all duds unless crossed again or something like that?

[ExperimentalGrower]

13 hours ago, Hilo Jason said:

First flower on my Decipiens hybrid and it’s massive!  And the crown shafts are developing a nice lime green color to them. 

Entire plant:

Killer! Looking beautiful. The parentage on mine must be different, as you can see. The form and leaf architecture of yours reminds me of the decipiens at Ho’omaluhia.

[Billeb]

1 hour ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Killer! Looking beautiful. The parentage on mine must be different, as you can see. The form and leaf architecture of yours reminds me of the decipiens at Ho’omaluhia.

Both of yours plants are super nice. @Hilo Jason’s plant looks much more like it’s got Onilahensis in the recipe. Yours looks like it has some Lutescens speckling to it. 
 

id be more than happy to have either one in my garden. They both are awesome. 
 

-dale 

[BayAndroid]

6 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Killer! Looking beautiful. The parentage on mine must be different, as you can see. The form and leaf architecture of yours reminds me of the decipiens at Ho’omaluhia.

Oof, those are great looking... Would have loved to get one of these in the garden. 

Got any full shots of them? 

[iDesign]

17 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Killer! Looking beautiful. The parentage on mine must be different, as you can see. The form and leaf architecture of yours reminds me of the decipiens at Ho’omaluhia.

Took a couple quick shots of mine (sadly still in a pot) for comparison. At this stage mine looks more like yours than @Hilo Jason's. Both are stunning plants! Jason said his came from the same lot as Josh got his from (who sold it to me),... Is it possible ours might look more like his as they grow? I agree they look pretty different at this point.

Note: Those are ANTS on the left stem... just noticed them, and need to spray them off.   🐜   🐜   🐜   🐜   🐜

[iDesign]

And while I'm working in the area... Here is a side-by-side of the Decipiens hybrid next to a "true" Decipiens (dubbed "Super Decipiens" due to the red coloring). Just to see once again how different the hybrids are.

* And yes, I'm ashamed to say that is indeed scale on the Decipiens. I went back out to see what the ants were going for, and it wasn't the hybrid... it was the Super Decipiens next to it (I missed it due to working in another area of the yard). Hose & weeding time!!!  💦  🐜    🐜    🐜    🐜    🐜 

 

[iDesign]

I'm going to test the hybrid in a prominent spot in the backyard... possibly the MOST prominent spot visually. 👀

At one point there was a double-queen in this location, but it always looked a bit sickly.  We theorize that it might be because the ground drains very poorly (with extremely hard ground creating the "bathtub effect"). Borderline "swamp" conditions.

Our plan is to break the ground up even more (with a jackhammer), and then amend heavily - transitioning from my fluffy amended soil... to soil + native... then to pure native (as suggested by @Billeb). To hedge my bets (since Chrysalidocarpus aren't "swamp things"), I'm also going to "mound" it so at least some of the roots are above the native soil line. Thoughts on this plan?

The other less-than-ideal factor with this spot is the amount of sun this location gets. I was originally testing a Chambeyronia Houailou in this spot... and the fronds did okay, but the trunk started to show burn marks on the sunny side. I would still prefer to put my Houailou here visually, but am thinking the fact that this palm has two sun-loving parents might make it a better match for this location. I'll keep it in its pot and check often since we've been getting very intense sunlight lately.  Any thoughts? Again the two plants I'm currently debating between (for this sunny, somewhat swampy spot) is Houailou or Decipiens Hybrid.

[flplantguy]

My first foray into a red dicipiens failed miserably, and i think the blue form i have is different (but not dead! They are happy), so i don't think i can help other than to agree on the soil transition and mounding.  Could you add lava rock to the mix for porosity and faster drainage?  Another idea would be to dig out like you plan and add a franch drain or pipe it out if possible, but if your at low elevation that may not be feasable either.  I have one under my driveway to drain a spot that gets slammed by roadway runoff that has been highly effective, and i used the stuff you get from a big box store.  I hope you get it to grow happily!  My vote is of course for the hybrid.  Do you notice any hybrid vigor growing it compared to the pure decipiens?

[iDesign]

1 hour ago, flplantguy said:

Do you notice any hybrid vigor growing it compared to the pure decipiens?

Definitely a faster grower than my pure decipiens. That one doesn’t look much larger than when I bought it, though in fairness both are still in pots. Here’s a photo of my pure decipiens today (after my husband cleaned the scale off)…

[shepcs]

FWIW I have my decipiens hybrid in full sun including the hottest afternoon sun with no issues.  It has two spears but hasn’t split yet.  Hualiou is a more imposing palm in my opinion but mine seems very slow.

[BayAndroid]

6 hours ago, iDesign said:

👀

Our plan is to break the ground up even more (with a jackhammer), and then amend heavily - transitioning from my fluffy amended soil... to soil + native... then to pure native (as suggested by @Billeb). To hedge my bets (since Chrysalidocarpus aren't "swamp things"), I'm also going to "mound" it so at least some of the roots are above the native soil line. Thoughts on this plan?

.

I mounded mine above the soil line by several inches and mine seems to be doing quite well. I have some very dense clay and it stays pretty damp, mounding the tree let's the roots go there, if they want... They don't have to stay there. 

[Hilo Jason]

Updated photo of mine from this mornings garden walk. Suubi for scale. Seed (not visible in picture) appears ripe so I’ll throw some in a community pot and see if any germinate. I doubt it since it’s a hybrid, but you never know. 

What I don’t love about this plant is it seems to have a hard time supporting the weight of the fronds.  They hang down and make it look a bit messy (in my opinion).  I’ll probably trim this up soon and take some more photos when I do.  

 

[ExperimentalGrower]

5 hours ago, Hilo Jason said:

Updated photo of mine from this mornings garden walk. Suubi for scale. Seed (not visible in picture) appears ripe so I’ll throw some in a community pot and see if any germinate. I doubt it since it’s a hybrid, but you never know. 

What I don’t love about this plant is it seems to have a hard time supporting the weight of the fronds.  They hang down and make it look a bit messy (in my opinion).  I’ll probably trim this up soon and take some more photos when I do.  

 

I don’t see why you won’t get viable seeds. Typically the intergeneric hybrids are those that have a spotty germination rate, if at all.

[ExperimentalGrower]

Quick update on mine before the weather starts to cool off. 4 trunks so far but looks like it might even split into 6. 🫣😳

[BayAndroid]

18 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Quick update on mine before the weather starts to cool off. 4 trunks so far but looks like it might even split into 6. 🫣😳

Stunning! Very nice. Would love to see the rest of your garden sometime. 

[Billeb]

18 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Quick update on mine before the weather starts to cool off. 4 trunks so far but looks like it might even split into 6. 🫣😳

 

 

Oh buddy, that’s going to be a very full looking tree and surely take up some room. Starting to stretch out a bit. 
 

-dale 

[Hilo Jason]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:28 AM, Hilo Jason said:

Updated photo of mine from this mornings garden walk. Suubi for scale. Seed (not visible in picture) appears ripe so I’ll throw some in a community pot and see if any germinate. I doubt it since it’s a hybrid, but you never know. 

What I don’t love about this plant is it seems to have a hard time supporting the weight of the fronds.  They hang down and make it look a bit messy (in my opinion).  I’ll probably trim this up soon and take some more photos when I do.  

 

A couple pictures of mine after I trimmed it up a bit:

 

[iDesign]

On 10/15/2024 at 11:02 PM, Hilo Jason said:

A couple pictures of mine after I trimmed it up a bit:

 

Thanks for the update - so helpful to see what ours might look like someday. Are you still observing that the plant has difficulty supporting its fronds? Great plant regardless (and confirmed on my end to be quite sun tolerant).

[quaman58]

I’ve posted this palm previously I think. It actually is in my next-door neighbors house. Probably the best looking palm in either one of our yards. Purchased as D. decipiens, but was always more stretched out looking. It always looked like it had some D. onilihensis “upright” in it, given the deeply recurved leaflets. Hybrid or not, it’s awesome..

[ExperimentalGrower]

4 hours ago, quaman58 said:

I’ve posted this palm previously I think. It actually is in my next-door neighbors house. Probably the best looking palm in either one of our yards. Purchased as D. decipiens, but was always more stretched out looking. It always looked like it had some D. onilihensis “upright” in it, given the deeply recurved leaflets. Hybrid or not, it’s awesome..

Looks killer, and looks like a hybrid.

[Hilo Jason]

On 10/17/2024 at 3:33 AM, iDesign said:

Thanks for the update - so helpful to see what ours might look like someday. Are you still observing that the plant has difficulty supporting its fronds? Great plant regardless (and confirmed on my end to be quite sun tolerant).

Yeah, still has trouble supporting the fronds but I’m wondering if that is climate related and maybe won’t be an issue for you?  I’ve seen regular Decipiens with the same issue here but never saw that in California (or Madagascar) 

[quaman58]

Hey Jason,

The leaf structure is very stiff, like decipiens. Definitely not a problem supporting itself. I think when I posted this a few years ago, a number of people in Oz said were growing the same palm, whatever it is. 

[Hilo Jason]

2 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Hey Jason,

The leaf structure is very stiff, like decipiens. Definitely not a problem supporting itself. I think when I posted this a few years ago, a number of people in Oz said were growing the same palm, whatever it is. 

Your neighbors palm is really nice!  Reminds me of a palm I had in my last Hilo garden that was a mystery palm. Eventually seeded and the seed germinated so hopefully more will get out there. 

[quaman58]

It's starting to throw some immature inflorescences, so hopefully full-on flowering is not too long off.  If it does, and it's a hybrid, I'm not exactly sure what that will mean! 

[ExperimentalGrower]

19 hours ago, Hilo Jason said:

Yeah, still has trouble supporting the fronds but I’m wondering if that is climate related and maybe won’t be an issue for you?  I’ve seen regular Decipiens with the same issue here but never saw that in California (or Madagascar) 

Ya Hawaii is the only place I’ve seen decipiens have this issue. Perhaps it’s due to the extreme humidity. Who knows.

[Alberto]

On 7/20/2022 at 5:40 PM, The Gerg said:

There have been a couple posts regarding Dypsis decipiens hybrids recently. I thought it might be a good idea to create a thread where we could track and compare over time. So @iDesign, @ExperimentalGrower, @Hilo Jason, @Josh-O and anyone else who either know or suspect they may have a DD hybrid, let’s see them & track them here.

I have at least two that I recently acquired that undoubtedly are hybrids. Observant palmtalkers and quite frankly my better judgement brought this to my attention. These were brought in to the Ventura Green Thumb nursery by (I’m told) a former manager who is a long time palm collector himself. These were labeled as Dypsis decipiens. To be honest, I believe any hybridization was unintentional.

 

This next smaller one is starting to bifurcate with a second growth point typical to a DD (or Dypsis ambositrae) as opposed to suckering say like a Dypsis onilahensis. The leafs however do not look very decipiens like.

 

This 3rd one has more of a typical DD look to it. The leaflets even appear a little wider than the other two. Could this one have missed an accidental hybridization and be pure DD? Not sure. Time will tell I guess. My experience with DD’s is there should be a lot of red color to the spear and newly opened leaf. If this one opens straight green I’m going to say it’s a hybrid. (No current spear)

 

Now hopefully this will encourage me to get these into the ground sooner than later. 
 

Let’s see them. Hopefully hybrid vigor will prevail and we will have a quicker growth rate than a pure Dypsis decipiens.

Is there certainty that this are all offspring of a Chrysalidocarpus ( Dypsis) decipiens and not a mislabeling od some palm seedling or or seed mixing in a greenhouse...... (???)

[Alberto]

On 7/20/2022 at 5:40 PM, The Gerg said:

 Since I have mature D.decipiens it crosse my mind to try to make some hybrid with some more vigour and that would grow faster then pure D.decipiens

 

[Alberto]

Really interesting to read your experiences with all this Crysalidocarpus ( Dypsis) decipiens hybrids. I have mature D. decipiens, D.onilahensis and D. baronii and also a not flowering Dypsis Bef .  I think all will make good candidates to try a hybridisation with D. decipiens....

[Hilo Jason]

8 hours ago, Alberto said:

Is there certainty that this are all offspring of a Chrysalidocarpus ( Dypsis) decipiens and not a mislabeling od some palm seedling or or seed mixing in a greenhouse...... (???)

My plant originally came from Floribunda palms here on the Big Island.  It was grown from seed that was collected at a local garden here. Some of the seed came up different and showing hybrid traits. But all was collected from a Decipiens. I have seen the parent plant myself. There is a large multi trucked Chrysalidocarpus next to the Decipiens in the garden that seemed the most likely candidate for what it crossed with. I’ve posted a picture of that palm earlier in the thread. 
 

Floribunda sells palms to California nurseries which is how some of these made it out to other collections (like @iDesign). Others bought directly from Floribunda like I did. Hope that helps. 
 

Also, I can’t speak to other plants shown on this thread that didn’t come from Floribunda originally.