Palms of Dallas

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Lemmon Ave sabals 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[vcrosstx]

Someone mentioned a canary island date palm survivor in east Dallas that was dug up. I had watched this Palm for years. It was on Second Avenue near Fair Park next to an abandoned building. It survived the February 2021 freeze but was dug up sometime later. 
 

July 2021
 

 

a picture from 2016

(I have no idea why my phone did the weird cropping)

Edited January 28, 2023 by vcrosstx

[Advective]

  On 1/28/2023 at 1:34 AM, vcrosstx said:

Someone mentioned a canary island date palm survivor in east Dallas that was dug up. I had watched this Palm for years. It was on Second Avenue near Fair Park next to an abandoned building. It survived the February 2021 freeze but was dug up sometime later. 

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This isn't quite Dallas, it's Arlington, but if you're interested in 2021 CIDP survivors, here's another:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6777978,-97.1970068,3a,24.5y,158.06h,90.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szSQC-cqXqOF1R25yHDNZXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[UK_Palms]

@Advective Yikes that one looks rough. I don't know if I have ever seen such a small CIDP crown relevant to trunk size!?

Remember Dallas/Arlington has experienced yet another 10F freeze since then as well. It is probably still alive & kicking, but I dread to think what it looks like now after that!? Another major freeze in such close proximity won't do it any favours. It will probably be on its last legs now. Another bad freeze this winter, or next, will surely be fatal. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by UK_Palms

[Las Palmas Norte]

That thing looks hilarious 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

There is an even bigger CIDP in Arlington on a residential property, will try to drive past at some point 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Same some butias and sabal minors downtown in front of a hotel used in landscaping. Here are the google maps shots.. And some miscellaneous trachies as well that look much better now than in this pic 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[Advective]

  On 1/29/2023 at 12:10 AM, UK_Palms said:

@Advective Yikes that one looks rough. I don't know if I have ever seen such a small CIDP crown relevant to trunk size!?

Remember Dallas/Arlington has experienced yet another 10F freeze since then as well. It is probably still alive & kicking, but I dread to think what it looks like now after that!? Another major freeze in such close proximity won't do it any favours. It will probably be on its last legs now. Another bad freeze this winter, or next, will surely be fatal. 

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Certainly makes one wonder how much more punishment it can take.

2021: 0F

2022: 17F

2023: 10F

What's great about CIDP: W. Filifera bud hardiness

What's bad: W. Robusta leaf hardiness

[UK_Palms]

  On 1/29/2023 at 2:32 PM, Advective said:

Certainly makes one wonder how much more punishment it can take.

2021: 0F

2022: 17F

2023: 10F

What's great about CIDP: W. Filifera bud hardiness

What's bad: W. Robusta leaf hardiness

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Yeah one issue is that the crown will gradually shrink over time as it struggles to recover between major freezes. It may never quite die and keep re-sprouting, but it will get to the point where it just looks tiny, ugly and ridiculous. I mean it's not far off that point now to be honest. Still it's a testament to the survival capabilities.

I still can't get over that big one that outlived the Trachycarpus Fortunei. CIDP are clearly more bud hardy than Trachycarpus even. Some people claim that certain variants of Fortunei, such as 'Bulgaria', can withstand -15F or something stupid. Don't be fooled by these claims. Even the most hardy Fortunei can and will be killed stone dead by 0F to -5F.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

  On 1/29/2023 at 3:16 PM, UK_Palms said:

 

Yeah one issue is that the crown will gradually shrink over time as it struggles to recover between major freezes. It may never quite die and keep re-sprouting, but it will get to the point where it just looks tiny, ugly and ridiculous. I mean it's not far off that point now to be honest. Still it's a testament to the survival capabilities.

I still can't get over that big one that outlived the Trachycarpus Fortunei. CIDP are clearly more bud hardy than Trachycarpus even. Some people claim that certain variants of Fortunei, such as 'Bulgaria', can withstand -15F or something stupid. Don't be fooled by these claims. Even the most hardy Fortunei can and will be killed stone dead by 0F to -5F.

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If it can grow back this much of a crown in one growing season, than two growing seasons and it will look pretty darn good.

Its been here since early 2000's and has been defoliated probably half a dozen times before 2021 freeze and it still looked pretty flawless up to then, so I do believe it can make a full recovery .

All it takes is 3 winters where we don't go below 20. 

This wouldn't be possible in any other climate, but since Texas gets growing days at all times of year when it gets nuked by a freeze in December it doesn't have to wait 3 months to start recovering 

 

 

[UK_Palms]

  On 1/29/2023 at 6:46 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

If it can grow back this much of a crown in one growing season, than two growing seasons and it will look pretty darn good.

Its been here since early 2000's and has been defoliated probably half a dozen times before 2021 freeze and it still looked pretty flawless up to then, so I do believe it can make a full recovery .

All it takes is 3 winters where we don't go below 20. 

This wouldn't be possible in any other climate, but since Texas gets growing days at all times of year when it gets nuked by a freeze in December it doesn't have to wait 3 months to start recovering 

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That is from 2 growing seasons though if you include the 2021 and 2022 summers that followed the Feb 2021 freeze. The street view image is from October 2022. It probably looked absolutely awful still by October 2021, after just one growing season, but was able to continue with its recovery the following summer. That other Arlington one by the diner that was posted is clearly not as resilient and likely on borrowed time now.

That backyard one may also just be a particularly hardy specimen as not all palms are made equal. With CIDP especially, some are just hardier, more robust and quicker growing than others. That particular one may be a 1 in 100 specimen. I suspect if there were several of them planted there, the others would have died. I guess it is all down to luck of the draw, that you get a particularly hardy specimen. Hardiness will vary to a degree even from the same seed batch.

If that one is a female, it may be worth trying to pollenate it with male pollen from another DFW survivor and to collect seeds from it. Of course the owner may not be open to this idea however. They may be more inclined to just let you collect pollen from it, in the event that it is actually a male CIDP. It's kind of hard to say looking at it on street view, but I think it is female. It's one hell of a specimen, and a fighter, either way.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

  On 1/29/2023 at 6:58 PM, UK_Palms said:

That is from 2 growing seasons though if you include the 2021 and 2022 summers that followed the Feb 2021 freeze. The street view image is from October 2022. It probably looked absolutely awful still by October 2021, after just one growing season, but was able to continue with its recovery the following summer. That other Arlington one by the diner that was posted is clearly not as resilient and likely on borrowed time now.

That backyard one may also just be a particularly hardy specimen as not all palms are made equal. With CIDP especially, some are just hardier, more robust and quicker growing than others. That particular one may be a 1 in 100 specimen. I suspect if there were several of them planted there, the others would have died. I guess it is all down to luck of the draw, that you get a particularly hardy specimen. Hardiness will vary to a degree even from the same seed batch.

If that one is a female, it may be worth trying to pollenate it with male pollen from another DFW survivor and to collect seeds from it. Of course the owner may not be open to this idea however. They may be more inclined to just let you collect pollen from it, in the event that it is actually a male CIDP. It's kind of hard to say looking at it on street view, but I think it is female. It's one hell of a specimen, and a fighter, either way.

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It was defoliated last year also. So it got defoliated two years in a row. And that's not the first time that's happened to it also 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

  On 1/29/2023 at 6:58 PM, UK_Palms said:

That is from 2 growing seasons though if you include the 2021 and 2022 summers that followed the Feb 2021 freeze. The street view image is from October 2022. It probably looked absolutely awful still by October 2021, after just one growing season, but was able to continue with its recovery the following summer. That other Arlington one by the diner that was posted is clearly not as resilient and likely on borrowed time now.

That backyard one may also just be a particularly hardy specimen as not all palms are made equal. With CIDP especially, some are just hardier, more robust and quicker growing than others. That particular one may be a 1 in 100 specimen. I suspect if there were several of them planted there, the others would have died. I guess it is all down to luck of the draw, that you get a particularly hardy specimen. Hardiness will vary to a degree even from the same seed batch.

If that one is a female, it may be worth trying to pollenate it with male pollen from another DFW survivor and to collect seeds from it. Of course the owner may not be open to this idea however. They may be more inclined to just let you collect pollen from it, in the event that it is actually a male CIDP. It's kind of hard to say looking at it on street view, but I think it is female. It's one hell of a specimen, and a fighter, either way.

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There are also several specimens in the northern suburbs that survived as well. Arlington is one of the warmer suburbs

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Here is one in Plano that survived. This is the 2021 pic after 3 growing seasons without defoliation.

This was after sub 18 degree temperatures in the winters of 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018. 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

One surviving Washingtonia at Nogales produce warehouse. Formerly part of a mass planting.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Throwback Monday.... More formerly impressive Washingtonia specimens killed off in 2021.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

These Sabal Mexicana near TCU campus are absolute beasts. January 2021 Pic Vs. November 2021 Pic. INCREDIBLE recovery 

Edited January 30, 2023 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Incredible washingtonias in Fort Worth 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Here is Taco Cabana CIDP in October. Not bad for one growing season. If it gets two in a row without defoliation should look pretty good

[Sabal King]

  On 1/31/2023 at 3:21 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Here is Taco Cabana CIDP in October. Not bad for one growing season. If it gets two in a row without defoliation should look pretty good

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I would love seeds from that one.... I have ALWAYS wanted a CIDP but concerned about getting them to take long-term here..  They are very beautiful and stately palms.

[jwitt]

  On 1/29/2023 at 3:16 PM, UK_Palms said:

 

Yeah one issue is that the crown will gradually shrink over time as it struggles to recover between major freezes. It may never quite die and keep re-sprouting, but it will get to the point where it just looks tiny, ugly and ridiculous. I mean it's not far off that point now to be honest. Still it's a testament to the survival capabilities.

I still can't get over that big one that outlived the Trachycarpus Fortunei. CIDP are clearly more bud hardy than Trachycarpus even. Some people claim that certain variants of Fortunei, such as 'Bulgaria', can withstand -15F or something stupid. Don't be fooled by these claims. Even the most hardy Fortunei can and will be killed stone dead by 0F to -5F.

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Trachy and CIDP have survived events below zero, some multiple times and even consecutive nights.  I am talking ten below zero events.

What they have a hard time with is the warmest winter recorded in many parts of Texas up until the 2021 event.  This simple, verifiable fact is often overlooked.

[palmnut-fry]

Omg those Forney road palms are literally so close, yet so overlooked by me cuz I never go that way! 

It just thundered during this ice storm! These poor babies will be, once again, defoliated. 

Mother nature, you are a cruel bitch.

Thanks for these shots, I was going to start a link like this, so you beat me to it! Cheers! Stay warm

[Sabal King]

I wouldn't give up on W. Filiferas here in DFW as there are survivor genetics (I'm growing out a bunch of them) which long term have survived all of our brutal schizo winters, and seeded for decades... same for Sabals.  I contend there are NOT enough of these planted here in DFW to really make a determination of whether long term they live or not.  I'm doing my part in planting 300+ Sabals on my property to find the best of the best genetics over time.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

  On 1/31/2023 at 3:42 PM, Sabal King said:

I wouldn't give up on W. Filiferas here in DFW as there are survivor genetics (I'm growing out a bunch of them) which long term have survived all of our brutal schizo winters, and seeded for decades... same for Sabals.  I contend there are NOT enough of these planted here in DFW to really make a determination of whether long term they live or not.  I'm doing my part in planting 300+ Sabals on my property to find the best of the best genetics over time.

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I know of about probably two dozen washingtonia in the DFW area that are all two stories tall. I lived in Austin up until about a year ago and was pleasantly surprised to see survivors up here. 

Pure filifera's are pretty much bulletproof here unless they are in a terrible spot. 

[Sabal King]

  On 1/31/2023 at 4:05 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I know of about probably two dozen washingtonia in the DFW area that are all two stories tall. I lived in Austin up until about a year ago and was pleasantly surprised to see survivors up here. 

Pure filifera's are pretty much bulletproof here unless they are in a terrible spot. 

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Yup - agreed.  I've got a 10G survivor filifera, a few 1-3Gs, and dozens of seedlings from a survivor down in DFW that has been here since the 60-70's growing.  I'm going to plant a bunch of these on our property and help propogate them.  I have always always wanted W. Filifera here but too much hybrid influence kept me from doing it.  They can handle this.  The parent of my W. Filifera comes from Chino Valley, AZ out in the desert.  Take a look at that weather... in the middle of the desert, nothing around, but a harsh 7b zone with ice, snow, rain, cold, garbage through march.  

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Mass planting of sabals in Burleson. The one with full crown is a survivor from pre 2021, as are the trachies which don't look great 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Several Rosa's restaurants have surviving Filifera in the Fort Worth area 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Dead now but these were impressive Robusta for DFW

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Sabal minor being used more and more in landscaping

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Dead now, but these dates palms were put in sometime after the 2019 street view and had a few solid years of looking good before 2021 wiped them out 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Juvenile filifera. Up against a southern facing wall. Look for this one to explode in growth over upcoming few years

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Sabal minor used in landscaping at several apartment complexes in McKinney/Allen area - Parkside at Craig Ranch, District at Craig ranch. If these can last long enough to set seed they are going to spread like wildfire 

Edited February 4, 2023 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

There's gotta be 100+ specimens easily 

Edited February 4, 2023 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

BEFORE/AFTER . These are visible when you are on tollroad heading north and passing trinity mills road exit

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Some downtown volunteer shots

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Washingtonia of the past...

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Washingtonia of the past...

Edited February 5, 2023 by DreaminAboutPalms

[knikfar]

  On 1/30/2023 at 4:40 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Incredible washingtonias in Fort Worth 

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Looking at Google Streetview, these ones get wrapped during the winter. January 2018 is as far back as I can go and get a winter month. But they were wrapped up then and again in Jan 2022.