New King Palm Fronds Opening Small

[Mat_Sheets]

Hey, my new king palm fronds are opening prematurely / too early / small. They are waaaaaaay smaller than all the old fronds.  Some are the are the size of my hand when the old ones are the size of my body. I will admit, I’ve had this Palm for two years and still haven’t found a watering schedule that lets it thrive (and I’m tired of asking at this point, I’ve tried it all). It just won’t open big beautiful fronds, no matter how much I water. It’s a 3 stumper. I’m in Southern California, very clay soil. Watering every Monday and Friday, 8 gallons each of those waterings on drip emitters. Also I fertilize every 3 months as the bag says. Appreciate any ideas!

[BayAndroid]

You have a nutrient deficiency. Mine do that as well. I started giving them organic palm fertilizer and it clears up the problem. I've noticed if I don't stay up on it, the problem comes back. Apparently it's a possible boron deficiency. A well balanced organic "palm" fertilizer will set things right. You could probably give them some today, as there's still a decent amount of time before winter. 

[Mat_Sheets]

2 minutes ago, BayAndroid said:

You have a nutrient deficiency. Mine do that as well. I started giving them organic palm fertilizer and it clears up the problem. I've noticed if I don't stay up on it, the problem comes back. Apparently it's a possible boron deficiency. A well balanced organic "palm" fertilizer will set things right. You could probably give them some today, as there's still a decent amount of time before winter. 

Thanks for the response! A nutrient deficiency doesn’t surprise me. I’ve been using the Miracle Grow Palm food and it is granules you apple every 3 months (tho I’ve been doing it every 2 since the growing season started). I think I’ll switch to a different fertilizer. Thanks again!

[BayAndroid]

Yeah, I'm personally not a fan of Miracle Grow. Your goal is to bring the soil to life. Once you do, it will retain much more moisture and you will have beneficial microbes etc in your soil that feed the palms roots. Synthetic fertilizers are more like an IV in the vein. They also leave a lot of salt overtime, which kills the beneficial stuff.  

[Merlyn]

The Miracle Gro Shake - N - Feed palm food 8-2-12 is fairly good in terms of nutrient balance and micronutrients.  It has maybe too much Magnesium but does not have any boron.  Theoretically your palms should get enough boron from the mulch disintegrating, but that's not guaranteed.  If you don't get regular rain then any mulch nutrients (boron included) only get washed into the soil when you water the palm.  Smallish fronds that don't fully open correctly is a sign of boron deficiency, but overall my guess would be not enough water, too much sun.  The rightmost frond in the bottom photo looks like it has sunburn.  Kings do great with sun when they are older, but sometimes suffer when they are younger.  Here's my notes on nutrients for reference:

• Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium - Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
• Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
• Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime or Azomite - Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

[96720]

Mine had small fronds and just about died then I read how they love water so I have been really soaking them they look like different palms!!!

[ruskinPalms]

Sooo… if spears don’t open and the ones that do are miniature shrunk fronds then we might be looking at a boron problem?

[Billeb]

14 hours ago, Mat_Sheets said:

…. I will admit, I’ve had this Palm for two years and still haven’t found a watering schedule that lets it thrive (and I’m tired of asking at this point, I’ve tried it all). It just won’t open big beautiful fronds, no matter how much I water. It’s a 3 stumper. I’m in Southern California, very clay soil. Watering every Monday and Friday, 8 gallons each of those waterings on drip emitters. Also I fertilize every 3 months as the bag says. Appreciate any ideas

Re: watering schedule. I have a triple Arch. Alexandrae that was really really struggling and looking like crap. I too have a fairly clay soil to work with. Every single person told me “it’s impossible to over water these. Just keep watering, they’ll be fine!”  But they never looked good no matter how much water I gave em. I noticed the water wasn’t draining nearly good as it should. It got to the point where I was gonna dig em out and start new but wanted to try something first. 
 

After a year+ in the ground, I dug them up, removed from the hole and shook out some of the dirt. I dug down another 2-3ft or more and made sure the soil was well drained. Threw the trees back in the hole and watered like hell. 
Low and behold….they turned around. I’m happy to say after another year, they are thriving and looking great. Now, I am able to let the hose run at a brisk trickle for 30min or more without standing water. The tree loves it. I water on drip every 3 days for 30min. The tree has (qty 3) 3gph emitters on it and supplement with the hose every other week or so. 
 

Your trees don’t look nearly as bad as mine did but the fact that they have burnt ends, it does appear like they need more water. My advise is just to make sure your “very clay soil” is well enough drained for the water to get where it needs to be. I have zero doubt my trees would be dead if I didn’t make a change with the soil. 

Re: small leaves. I’ve had plants push out small leaves before and attributed it to fertilizer and schedule.  Every time it fixed itself. I think others are correct in staying it is some sort of deficiency. 

Good luck  

-dale
 

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Kings spread their roots far and wide. Often thirty feet from the trunk so, if your only watering that group right at the base or the drip line, they’re not going to be happy. King palms are not very needy as far as fertilizer goes and nutrient deficiencies are rare but they do respond well the a quality palm fertilizer. They need lots of water at their extended roots. Yours has only had two years to spread roots but I would guess that they are several feet out already. I have over fifty Kings in my landscape, thirty of which mature 40 footers, all grown from seedling or 5 gallon size. I even have some growing in a sunken fiberglass pond with no drainage and all roots submerged in stagnant water 365 days a year and they are growing well. It’s also filled with gravel but still water to the brim. There will often be 8-12” between trunk rings if the palms are watered enough and are otherwise happy. 
 

My hand on the left to show scale with trunk. This gets water three times four times per week and well away from its drip line too. 

[Merlyn]

11 hours ago, ruskinPalms said:

Sooo… if spears don’t open and the ones that do are miniature shrunk fronds then we might be looking at a boron problem?

Possibly, but you'd usually see some kind of frond distortion along with it.  Boron stunting seems to go along with accordion leaf and hookleaf and other weird shapes.  If the fronds are just smaller but otherwise totally normal, it's likely to be something else as the main problem.  I'd think Jim and Dale are correct in that it's not getting enough water.  Either it's just not enough hitting the ground, or the soil is draining water away from the roots, or just not in the right spot, etc.

[Tyrone]

Give it some trace elements but I reckon it’s a zinc deficiency. If you give it trace elements they will be in the right ratio and the palm will take what it wants. I think zinc and boron are a couple as well. It’s definitely a problem in the growth development at the palms bud where all growth happens. 

[Merlyn]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:51 AM, Tyrone said:

Give it some trace elements but I reckon it’s a zinc deficiency. If you give it trace elements they will be in the right ratio and the palm will take what it wants. I think zinc and boron are a couple as well. It’s definitely a problem in the growth development at the palms bud where all growth happens. 

I hadn't thought of zinc deficiency, I had no notes on it in my big landscaping spreadsheet.  So I looked up the original paper where they grew palms in sand and induced deficiencies to see what happened.  New leaves reduced in size is common, sometimes with necrotic margins.  They didn't test Archontophoenix specifically, but did other palms: https://palms.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/v28n1p6-14.pdf