New Palm Fronds Browning (potted)

[romeyjdogg]

Hello all,

 

I just received a very nice Butia Jubaea x Queen from Patrick and I planted it in a large pot until I figure out where I want to put it in the ground.

I used bagged soil from the Ground Up called The Seasons Bed Mix. Says it's compost and angular sand, so I assume well draining. When potting, I also added a few handfuls of Microlife 8-4-6 slow release fertilizer.

 

I've been watering every 2nd or 3rd day and the pot is located in a spot that gets some direct sun and some filtered sun, but not full sun. Temps are low-mid 90s.

Any ideas on why the fronds are starting to brown up? I just got a soil monitor and it's showing 10/10 for water and a pH that seems to be pretty low (between 5-6). Not sure how accurate the pH thing is, but figured I would mention it.

Thanks

[Merlyn]

If it is (BxJ) x Queen then it should be relatively water tolerant.  I know my BxJ and JxB seedlings did not like getting watered every day here in Florida, and they did a lot better in the ground than in pots.  That being said, I haven't tried this particular hybrid.  My suggestions are:

• Don't assume it's well draining, check it.  Pour a couple of gallons of water in the pot and see how much drains out, and how quickly.  Generally you want it to remain moist but most of the water should drain right through out the bottom.  The BxJ half likes it dry.
• Some mixes turn into dense muck with water.  The top might look okay, but it could be sludge below.  Your mix looks pretty dense, more like what I'd do for a Licuala Grandis.  This could be okay for Austin, but would be a recipe for death here in FL with our daily afternoon thunderstorms.  Everyone has their favorite mix, my current one is equal parts generic topsoil (similar to your pot's stuff), perlite, and either Sakrete Paver Base (crushed limestone gravel) or Turface MVP (fired clay pebbles).  If you are going to keep it in a pot for a couple of years make sure it is a good mix.  50% or so inorganic is a good safe bet.
• If it was just recently shipped and repotted, then having some "transplant shock" is normal.  Rapid dying of the oldest fronds is to be expected as it "eats" them to provide nutrients for new root growth.  Don't cut off the old leaves until they are thoroughly brown and dessicated.
• I'd mark the new spear with a sharpie and make sure it's growing on a regular basis. 
• Adding fertilizer to the soil when potting is generally not recommended.  It can easily burn new roots.  I only use diluted liquid fertilizer or Osmocote in my nursery pots.

If it's growing consistently and only the oldest fronds are browning, then I'd guess just shipping/transplant shock is the major culprit.  But I'd be concerned about the soil mix.  Here's two good threads on people's favorite mixes:

 

[romeyjdogg]

Thanks very much for the thorough response!

I'll check the soil drainage, scale back the water, and see if the spear is growing. I believe it is, but will verify. You may be right about the soil holding a ton of water.

I plan to plant this in the ground within 6 months.

[Merlyn]

9 hours ago, romeyjdogg said:

Thanks very much for the thorough response!

I'll check the soil drainage, scale back the water, and see if the spear is growing. I believe it is, but will verify. You may be right about the soil holding a ton of water.

I plan to plant this in the ground within 6 months.

If you are planning to put it in the ground in 6 months, it might be better to have it in something around a 3g size with a shape that opens to the top.  A larger pot makes it more difficult to remove the palm without breaking a bunch of roots, and the shape of that one (smaller opening than in the middle) means you can't just turn it sideways and slide the palm out.  That's probably a minor annoyance when you go to plant it.  But if you end up having to change out the soil for a faster draining type, consider putting it into a different shape that'll be easier later:

[romeyjdogg]

It does appear that my soil is holding moisture quite a while. I dug down a few inches and it's moist after no watering for about a week. Soil moisture probe still saying it's a 10/10, so perhaps it was way too wet.

 

I marked the spear about 4 days ago and I'm not seeing any appreciable movement, which is really concerning. I'll wait a bit longer without watering and see what happens.

I assume you should be able to see spear movement after a few days, right?

[5am]

3 hours ago, romeyjdogg said:

I assume you should be able to see spear movement after a few days, right?

I haven’t grown that hybrid but in my experience a palm that is recovering from being shipped and potted up in new soil may need a few weeks to focus on roots before y there’s any frond growth to speak of. More than once I’ve become impatient and pulled one up to find myself destroying fresh new roots and causing further setback. 

Unless the soil it’s in is going to drown it my advice is to have patience and let it be. 

[Merlyn]

I agree with @5am, a newly potted palm that's been wrapped up and shipped and then potted is going to have some "transportation shock" and "transplant shock."  It'll take a while for it to actually start growing the new spear.  If I recall correctly, Patrick ships in pots with soil and does not bare root the plants.  If that's the case, then most likely 90% of the roots are still in that pot shape.  So swapping out the pot and/or soil would likely not damage too many new roots.  But...if it's been in that new pot for a month or more, then it's probably growing a bunch of roots out into the soil.  If it were my plant I'd be waffling over two options:

• Repot now with loose draining soil at least 50% inorganic (perlite, pumice, Turface MVP, pea gravel)
• Manage the existing extra dense soil by figuring out how much water is needed to keep it from staying wet or mucky at the bottom, but also not totally drying out.  Maybe every couple of days very light watering keeps the top moist while letting the bottom dry out?

In my case in Florida I'd repot, because our daily afternoon thunderstorms means managing water input is impossible.  If you only have a couple of palms to manage then option 2 might be ok if you can figure out a reasonable water balance.

[romeyjdogg]

Update:

 

Haven't reported the palm and decided to leave it alone. Marked the spear about 3 weeks ago and still no movement. Starting to make me a little concerned. We'll see

[Billeb]

35 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

Update:

 

Haven't reported the palm and decided to leave it alone. Marked the spear about 3 weeks ago and still no movement. Starting to make me a little concerned. We'll see

I think I have some bad news for you….

 

No movement in that length of time is a bad sign. It sounds like you may have drowned it during a critical point. As @5am & @Merlyn said, it was likely shocked by packaging, shipping, Un packaging & repotting. 
 

I may get lambasted for this but I never use fertilizer when reporting or planting out and always wait until the next time I apply in the garden ( every 3 months max).  Just tribal knowledge type stuff. Is it true?….I don’t know but I don’t want to find out. 
 

If it were mine, I don’t know if I’d throw in the towel just yet but simply continue doing what your doing and monitor the spear. I’ve only had one tree do that and come out if it. That was a Bentinkia Condapanna and although it has moved, it is struggling badly. 
 

Good luck. 
 

-dale

[romeyjdogg]

You may be right, but I can't imagine slow release organic fertilizer caused it. Perhaps it was the watering though. If it's toast, that's really disappointing. Lesson learned, I guess. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by romeyjdogg

[Merlyn]

@romeyjdoggif the spear hasn't moved in 3 weeks I'd normally be concerned that it's dead.  BUT...if the existing fronds have sort of stabilized and aren't continuing to brown and die off, then it may just be putting all of its energy into growing roots.  If you've found a good balance of water input vs soil density vs temperature vs sun (yeah, not easy) then it may just take a few more weeks to get moving.

[romeyjdogg]

Yeah it seems the fronds have stabilized. There were about 3 of them that browned out, but that seems to have stopped.

[romeyjdogg]

Update friends: just in the last 3-4 days, the spear has started growing out of the blue.

Very happy that it's moving, but gave me a scare!

[Billeb]

Awesome news! Congratulations. Update this thread in a couple weeks / months. 
 

-dale