Why are palms so infrequent in San Antonio? And in a lot of Texas in general?

[SeanK]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:14 PM, fr8train said:

It seems like the perfect place to plant them. The climate humid with mild winters in the part of the state where most people live. While there are palms, they seem pretty rare. The same goes for a lot of Texas. I drove all around the state recently, and apart from the coast, and maybe RGV, there are hardly any palms. Many of the small towns between San Antonio and the coast have none.

Why don't people in Texas plant palms like people do in California, Arizona, or Florida? I know it's not quite as mild in TX, but many beautiful palms can grow there. 

Going back to the original query, 

1. Only S.mexicana is native, and only in the RGV.

2. Texas has continental weather patterns. Id est, can get very hot AND very cold.  2 out of 3 recent winters were big palm killers. In fact, I recall about 25 years back someone in Corpus planting a huge palm garden on their property. A well-known enthusiast at the time. Most of the palms died a long time ago.

Edited December 20, 2023 by SeanK
sp.

[fr8train]

42 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Going back to the original query, 

1. Only S.mexicana is native, and only in the RGV.

2. Texas has continental weather patterns. Id est, can get very hot AND very cold.  2 out of 3 recent winters were big palm killers. In fact, I recall about 25 years back someone in Corpus planting a huge palm garden on their property. A well-known enthusiast at the time. Most of the palms died a long time ago.

That's really interesting, I wonder what he planted? 

In most of the country you have no chance of growing any trunking palms, so I always feel like the climate here is underutilized for what's probably the one plant with the most ambiance. Nothing really conveys hot and exotic like a mature palm tree. 

As bad as these freezes get, Sabals always seem to make it. So at least there's that. 🤷There aren't that many palms that can grow here, but I think there are a handful of others that can make it through 99% of the freezes. 

Sabal palmetto, Sabal mexicana, Sabal uresana, Trachycarpus fortunei, Trachycarpus princeps, Phoenix canariensis, Brahea armata, possibly more...

 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

 

2. Texas has continental weather patterns. Id est, can get very hot AND very cold.  2 out of 3 recent winters were big palm killers. In fact, I recall about 25 years back someone in Corpus planting a huge palm garden on their property. A well-known enthusiast at the time. Most of the palms died a long time ago.

Same story all along the South until you begin until you head into central Florida. Record lows at the same latitude and proximity from the coast in TX and N FL or S GA are all very similar. 

Corpus near the coast had a pretty good run. Many big royals growing well as recently as January 2021, you could've planted them in the 90s and most would've lived till then. Big royal poinciana, mango, Ficus, etc too. Your 25 year anecdote doesn't check out unless the owner didn't irrigate in which case yes dead 😂

Why all the TX hate? 😄

Edited December 20, 2023 by Xenon

[fr8train]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Same story all along the South until you begin until you head into central Florida. Record lows at the same latitude and proximity from the coast in TX and N FL or S GA are all very similar. 

Corpus near the coast had a pretty good run. Many big royals growing well as recently as January 2021, you could've planted them in the 90s and most would've lived till then. Big royal poinciana, mango, Ficus, etc too. Your 25 year anecdote doesn't check out unless the owner didn't irrigate in which case yes dead 😂

Why all the TX hate? 😄

I reread this thread, I noticed you mentioned zone pushing a few times. What would you recommend zone pushing here in San Antonio, in an area that's closer to 8b than it is to 9a (the southern part of Hill Country)? I've only really seen Sabals, Trachycarpus, filifera and Phoenix canariensis planted up here, all of which made it through however cold the big freeze of 2021 was, and last year's December freeze, and the subsequent ice storm a few months later. 

[Xenon]

1 minute ago, fr8train said:

I reread this thread, I noticed you mentioned zone pushing a few times. What would you recommend zone pushing here in San Antonio, in an area that's closer to 8b than it is to 9a (the southern part of Hill Country)? I've only really seen Sabals, Trachycarpus, filifera and Phoenix canariensis planted up here, all of which made it through however cold the big freeze of 2021 was, and last year's December freeze, and the subsequent ice storm a few months later. 

I wouldn't zone push much in your case. Your area is a tough spot for palms, no urbanization or water moderation to cushion anything so even your normal winter is going to get cooooold. Some windbreak and canopy would help. I'd still consider mule palms, typical "Mexican fan palm" sold aka robusta leaning mutt (sooo fast and cheap), and Livistona chinensis in a protected spot (it's quite bud hardy).

 

[Fusca]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:31 PM, Palmfarmer said:

How big was it? I just remember a Bismarckia by the river in San Antonio. Anyone know if it survived? 

My Bismarckia was planted out from a 5-gal container so probably 15-gal sized after 2 years so still pretty small.  The Bismarckia on the San Antonio Riverwalk was removed by the summer of 2021.  Not sure if would have recovered if given more time and most likely not protected at all.  I'm not positive but I believe that a small trunking Bismarckia at Oblate School in SA survived.  Roughly 3 meters tall overall and about the same size as the Riverwalk palm.

[vlc]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:14 PM, fr8train said:

It seems like the perfect place to plant them. The climate humid with mild winters in the part of the state where most people live. While there are palms, they seem pretty rare. The same goes for a lot of Texas. I drove all around the state recently, and apart from the coast, and maybe RGV, there are hardly any palms. Many of the small towns between San Antonio and the coast have none.

Why don't people in Texas plant palms like people do in California, Arizona, or Florida? I know it's not quite as mild in TX, but many beautiful palms can grow there. 

You hit the nail on the head here. I am asking the exact same question about the city of Atlanta! Such a shame these cities neglect to introduce a more diverse & tropical vibe to them. It just makes me think they either don't know that certain palms would survive the winters, or they simply don't like them...

[Ivanos1982]

3 hours ago, vlc said:

You hit the nail on the head here. I am asking the exact same question about the city of Atlanta! Such a shame these cities neglect to introduce a more diverse & tropical vibe to them. It just makes me think they either don't know that certain palms would survive the winters, or they simply don't like them...

too cold in winter, even some hardy palms didnt make it this year in my yard. We had an entire 26 hours below 25 F degrees in Houston this February... It did a LOT of damage.