Thin Upper Tree Trunk on Queen Palm

[Jeff H.]

I have a queen palm that was planted about 10 years ago.   It was doing fine all of those years but now the fronds are looking a little sparse.  My landscaper "thinks" it is dying.  The only thing I notice is a thinning of the trunk right before the fronds, maybe to half the diameter of the lower trunk.  My untrained mind thinks that this may be the cause, its choking itself out? Any thoughts or comments?

 

Jeff

[Looking Glass]

2 hours ago, Jeff H. said:

I have a queen palm that was planted about 10 years ago.   It was doing fine all of those years but now the fronds are looking a little sparse.  My landscaper "thinks" it is dying.  The only thing I notice is a thinning of the trunk right before the fronds, maybe to half the diameter of the lower trunk.  My untrained mind thinks that this may be the cause, its choking itself out? Any thoughts or comments?

 

Jeff

Post a pic of the tree.  You might be describing “pencil pointing”, which is a chronic problem with fertilizing.  It’s a problem where there’s chronically not enough potassium, especially compared to nitrogen.  Can happen when you fertilize with lawn fertilizer, or other fertilizers not balanced for palms, or in underfertilized/watered palms.  

My back neighbor’s Royal Palm had it, was weak looking, and blew over in 40mph winds the other day.  

[Jeff H.]

Here's a picture - sorry its sideways!  This palm is nestled in between two other palms which are healthy so I don't think it is a fertilizer issue? Thanks for your response 

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Jeff H. said:

Here's a picture - sorry its sideways!  This palm is nestled in between two other palms which are healthy so I don't think it is a fertilizer issue? Thanks for your response

It does look like it is "pencil pointing," and has been doing it for maybe about a year.  The taper could be water or fertilizer or a disease.  Could you take a couple of more photos of:

• The whole palm, including the trunk, base and crown of leaves
• A closeup of the entire base of the trunk where it meets the ground
• A full view of this palm and the other two next to it

This would help figure out what is going on.  Have you noticed any spots on the trunk that look like they are "bleeding?"  Thielaviopsis is a common trunk infection that can cause pencil pointing, and sometimes it has a "bleeding trunk" as an early visible symptom: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP143

[Jeff H.]

Hi, 

 

Here are the pictures you requested.  Thanks for your help.  I am in central Florida, would you know of any "Palm specialist" that could visit my home and take a look?

Sorry about the picture orientation-not sure why that happened??

Jeff

[Merlyn]

@Jeff H. here they are rotated the right way. 

Nothing is immediately obvious as the cause of the problem.  The wilting and "pencil pointing" could be from a vascular disease like Thielaviopsis or Ganoderma, or a persistent bud infection like Phytophthora.  A couple of things come to mind:

• In the top photo of the trunk base there are about 6 holes with reddish stains around them.  This is sometimes an early sign of Thielaviopsis, a "bleeding trunk."  But it could just be a bug that decided to take a bite out of it there.  I'd poke the trunk with your fingers and see if it is squishy or wet.  Knock on the trunk with your knuckles and see if it sounds "hollow."   And check for any other holes with similar rust-ish spots.
• Along the same lines, I see a sprinkler head just to the right of the trunk.  If it's a bubbler head that's probably ok, you just don't want to spray the trunk directly.  Sprinklers hitting trunks is a common cause of fungal rot.
• Also in the same photo it looks like the ground has been built up maybe a foot or more from the surrounding level.  I can't tell if that's red lava rock or wood chips, but burying the bottom of the trunk can cause root rot or fungal problems too.  Effectively it may have been planted at the right depth and then "mounded" up too high.  With stuff covering the lower trunk you can get things like Ganoderma infections.  Here's a great resource for the right planting depth: http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/
• In the furthest out photo it looks like maybe one of the Roebellini heads in the quad has died.  If that's the case then I'd cut that one trunk off and remove it asap.  They are 4 individual palms, so you can cut one without killing the others.  If it is dead, take a photo of the plant before you cut the one trunk off, and immediately after cutting it take a photo of the top end of the stump.  Frequently you can see discoloration of a cut trunk and that helps determine the cause of death.  It has to be right after the cut though, because within 5 minutes the whole end of the trunk will look bizarrely discolored.  Of course I might be totally wrong and that palm isn't dead!
• The unopened spear and the wilting other fronds might indicate a Phytopthora infection in the bud.  If you have a tall enough ladder (and can do so without falling off it!) you can try pouring some regular household hydrogen peroxide into the crown.  If it bubbles up then there's a bud infection.  Hydrogen peroxide, Daconil, and copper-based fungicides are good treatments for bud rots.  I like to use a 32oz bottle of hydrogen peroxide with 4tsp of Daconil mixed in.  Here's an info sheet on bud rots: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP144

[Jeff H.]

Boy, thank you for all of this info.  You make it sound like there is hope for this old palm or is it a goner?  Pouring the hydrogen peroxide could be dicey getting up there.  If it does bubble and there is a bud infection - then what?? Is there a cure?

 

Jeff

[eacdmd86]

Can you post a closer up picture of the bottom of the trunk, specifically at the rocks and red spots?  It looks below the red spots on the left like the "light colored rock" could be a ganoderma conk.

[Jeff H.]

Thanks for your answer.  Its funny,  I saw these mushroomy things the other day and thought nothing of it until I followed your lead that they may be ganoderma conks and did a google search.  Doesn't sound too promising for my palm.  Here are a couple of pictures you asked for and sorry they are sideways!!

 

Jeff

[Merlyn]

@Jeff H.sometimes "pencil pointing" is just caused by nutritional issues like a lack of regular fertilizer.  Queens are notorious "fertilizer hogs" and like to get get 4x per year with something like 8-2-12 PalmGain (or similar slow release with micronutrients).  There are a bunch of micronutrients like Boron, Iron, Manganese and Magnesium.  A lack of one or more of those might just cause it to grow poorly and pencil point.  Fixing that is easy just by 4x per year of 1.5lb per 100sqft of canopy.  Lawn fertilizers can also burn the roots, but the other two look ok.  This is why I was thinking disease rather than lack of fertilizer.

• Bud rot infection - not too hard to cure with hydrogen peroxide, Daconil, or Mancozeb in the crown.  An easy (hahahah, maybe not!) way to get some in there is to tape a Solo cup to a piece of 1.5" PVC pipe and fill it with 4-8oz of hydrogen peroxide.  Stand on an 8' A-frame ladder and you could probably aim and pour right next to the unopened spear.  You might not be able to see it bubble at the spear, but if it's foaming as it dribbles down it's probably hitting fungus in the crown.  Repeated doses of that AND/OR a systemic fungicide like Clearys 3336 or Banrot will help and likely cure a bud rot.
• Thielaviopsis - probably fatal, and easy to spread.  Banrot is claimed to be rated for treating Thielaviopsis, but I don't know if it actually does.
• Ganoderma - probably fatal, easy to spread, no treatment options.

Based on the pictures I'd think the conks are Ganoderma and the bleeding rust spots are Thielaviopsis.  The conks don't look precisely like the flat shelves that is normal for Ganoderma, but that might just be due to growing in the lava rock.  Personally, I'd cut it down and dig out the stump.  Grinding the stump will just fling more Ganoderma spores all over the place, possibly infecting nearby palms.  Here's a fact sheet on it: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/PP100

[Jeff H.]

Thanks for you input.  I guess it's a goner and I will have to take it down.  Already got a price from one local guy - $1700 - tree removal plus stump grinding.  I said thanks but know thanks.  Saw what you said about grinding and spreading the spores - can't imagine digging out the stump to be an easy chore, Any advice on how to do that?

 

Jeff

[Merlyn]

@Jeff H. $1700 seems expensive, but right after a hurricane there's lots of demand for tree debris removal.  As far as digging it out goes, I found it relatively easy to take out a 15' tall Queen that got Fusarium.  Cut it at 6' above the ground, then move the lava rock away, slice down around the perimeter of the trunk with a reciprocating saw and a 12" long Diablo Carbide Pruning blade.  The roots are easy to cut but very densely packed in a palm that size.  Slice around the perimeter and use the trunk as a big lever to push it one way...slice some more...lever it the other way, etc.  Mine was smaller than your queen, but it only took me 1 hour to cut down and remove this palm:

My definition of "relatively easy" should be taken with care, because I've dug out the oak stumps from probably 20ish water oaks that ranged from 2 to 6 feet diameter at ground level.  This is mostly because the stump grinders only went a foot below the surface, and I really wanted to replant in those spots.  And I did them with a shovel, reciprocating saw, and a trowel.  Many people would consider it insane, but I just call it a Sunday afternoon... 

[3 Milesfrom Gulf of Mexico]

Rent a chainsaw and drop that plam yourself.  4 hour rental is $35.00 big orange store.   Then cut the trunk up in 1 foot pieces.  Dispose slowly in your regular garbage.   Get yourself a bag of charcoal $20.00 and read this website.https://www.treetriage.com/stump-removal/get-rid-of-stump-with-charcoal/.  all fungi will also be killed from slow burning charcoal.   In spring plant this palm Chambeyronia macrocarpa or Archontophoenix alexandrae (rocket ship if you want some fast growth.  Keep this palm moist all times and you will have some great growth by summer.  Just my idea to help you save some money.  $1700 is way too much to drop a palm that size.  It would only take him an hour to do the whole job.  Good luck.