DYPSIS DECISION - Need a dypsis in container recommendation?

[Christopher Dillman]

Hi everyone, in a bit of a privacy conundrum here:

Planted this Mediterranean fan palm here,  plus a triple king, back in April during hardscape work. The 'hope' is the fan palm someday gets to that size in the pink area, oh in 2 or 3 years. Wishful thinking. But I can't wait that long!

There is no space btwn the fan palm and fence to plant more palms. Wedging in containers are the only way to go.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a nice clumping dypsis that could thrive in a container? And if so.. how tall/deep do the containers need to be for the dypsis to get say 8 or 9 feet high?

I could settle for bamboo if that's my only option given these constraints.. yet prefer the palm-like dypsis to keep with the theme I've got going.

Any insights appreciated!

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Christopher Dillman

[Kim]

Your giant birds of paradise should fill in fairly soon, and cover more than a clumping dypsis (chrysalidocarpus). Unless you want to pay a lot for a big lutescens, and then do you really want it? If you need the privacy immediately, find the biggest container of giant bop you can fit in there.  Soon you will have more canopy and privacy than you imagined, or wanted. 

[Christopher Dillman]

44 minutes ago, Kim said:

Your giant birds of paradise should fill in fairly soon, and cover more than a clumping dypsis (chrysalidocarpus). Unless you want to pay a lot for a big lutescens, and then do you really want it? If you need the privacy immediately, find the biggest container of giant bop you can fit in there.  Soon you will have more canopy and privacy than you imagined, or wanted. 

Love the look of the lutescens!

Do you know if they could grow in containers?

While I thought about a giant bird in a pot, the space I have is only 1 foot wide, yet can be up to six or seven feet long. Not enough room for a round-ish bird, but a skinny bamboo or dypsis planted along a 1x7 foot space could work.

Also curious how tall/deep do the containers need to be in order to support an 8 or so ft high lutecens?

Spot would get afternoon full sun from 11am onward.

Good to know about the birds someday. Unfortunately I'm in a must-get-privacy-now mode.

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Christopher Dillman

[Sr. Califas]

Onilahensis might be perfect for your needs. 

[iDesign]

I live very close to you (in South Carlsbad / La Costa Valley) and have several of the plants you mentioned.

Here's one comparison photo...

The Giant BOP are the MVP in terms of privacy. They're also monsters. You might possibly be able to keep them in a pot short-term, but not for very long! I had a friend try one in a thick pot, and it busted the pot open no problem.

In the foreground are some Dypsis lutescens in a pot. These have been in a pot for almost 2 years now, and haven't shown any health effects from being in pots. They don't grow tall all that fast (mine are up to 6 feet... thing they started around 4 feet). They sucker though... I've split them twice now, and have four pots of these providing temporary shade to my more vulnerable plants (during my yard rebuilding project). I personally like lutescens for their orange tone. I also have Onilahensis, but at a smaller size (if you could find a large one that would be awesome, but that might be difficult to find).

I remember that you picked up some Dypsis lanceolata from Rancho Soledad. That would be a nice option here. They also had a huge Onilahensis in stock last time I went, but that one was super expensive.

Hibiscus might be another screening plant you could consider. My "Acapulco Gold" one in the above photo provides great screening, but it's several years old. Not sure you could easily find one that big, though maybe Facebook marketplace?

You could also consider bananas... either Red Abyssian banana or "Ice Cream" type. I kept this Red one in a pot for two years, so I know it can handle being potted...

And here is the "Ice Cream" ones. They make a nice privacy shield at the top of the clump, but require periodic maintenance...

The "Ice Cream" type do survive ok in a pot, but they're a bit of a pain since they sucker often. I've got some suckers in pots right now, that I'm using as temporary shade-providing plants...

PM me if you'd like to come by and see them in person. Hope that helps!

[Christopher Dillman]

5 minutes ago, iDesign said:

I live very close to you (in South Carlsbad / La Costa Valley) and have several of the plants you mentioned.

Here's one comparison photo...

The Giant BOP are the MVP in terms of privacy. They're also monsters. You might possibly be able to keep them in a pot short-term, but not for very long! I had a friend try one in a thick pot, and it busted the pot open no problem.

In the foreground are some Dypsis lutescens in a pot. These have been in a pot for almost 2 years now, and haven't shown any health effects from being in pots. They don't grow tall all that fast (mine are up to 6 feet... thing they started around 4 feet). They sucker though... I've split them twice now, and have four pots of these providing temporary shade to my more vulnerable plants (during my yard rebuilding project). I personally like lutescens for their orange tone. I also have Onilahensis, but at a smaller size (if you could find a large one that would be awesome, but that might be difficult to find).

Hi Stacey!  Yes indeed, I did get a Dypsis Lanceolata at RS. It is doing fantastic, although it is truly a shade plant. It's thriving under a canopy of a Fishtail + a bigger triple king under morning sun only. I was told by Jessie at RS to keep the Lance in shade only as much as possible. So far he's right!

In full sun I fear a Lanceolata would burn. This spot where I need the privacy screen gets full sun from 11am onward.

So my big questions are: 1) Can a row of dypsis lutescens thrive in a container, which would be 1.5 ft wide by 7 or 8 feet long; 2) If yes, how deep does the container need to be for the dypsis to grow 8 ft min tall; 3) Can the lutescens do ok under that full sun.

PS: You have a gorgeous yard! 👏

[Merlyn]

I'd think Lutescens is a good choice, they will grow in a pot for a long, long time.  If you could do a row of 15g pots you'd probably have a dense hedge in a reasonable amount of time...especially if you buy them in 5g or 7g size already around 6' tall.  At least in FL they grow 10-20' tall quickly.  Mine don't get that big because the tops get torched off by upper 20s frost every winter. 

I would not recommend a bamboo for something that narrow, even the super tight clumpers like to expand to 3-6' diameter at ground level.  In that corner it would be a pain to maintain it.  You *could* do it in a pot, but they really grow fuller and denser in the ground.  In a pot it might be kind of sparse leaved, and not give the visual block you want.

[iDesign]

Glad to hear your Dypsis (Crysalidocarpus) lanceolata is doing well! And thanks for the compliments on my yard... the areas in the photos are still very much under construction.

At the moment I have all my lutescens in pots, and have been moving them around the yard as temporary shade-providers to more vulnerable plants. They can absolutely take a lot of sun! 

As for pot size, I have most of mine in larger pots, but a couple clumps in 15G, and they seem happy in that size (just need to divide them periodically, if it's starting to look crowded) Here's a photo of one of the 15G clumps...

And a close up of the 15G. Can't hold a lot of stalks, but seem happy enough in a small pot.

[iDesign]

Afterthought... I somehow missed your comment about the planter being a horizontal strip. If that was my planter, I'd probably put Chamaedorea mixed with Ti Plants. Here's a photo of my 2 foot wide planter with Chamaedorea costaricana...

This is the look I love for a long thin planter, but the debate would be which Chamaedorea to use. The above costaricana tolerates a surprisingly high amount of sun, but you can see it's a little upset about the recent heat wave (no permanent damage... just some cosmetic imperfections on a few fronds). Note that my costaricana clumps are still relatively young, and currently there are only a few tall ones. They'll thicken up over time and eventually make a great privacy screen. And the addition of Ti plants really makes it attractive in my eyes.

If the spot you're eyeing truly is FULL sun, you could do a similar look, but with a different Chamaedorea type. Here are two I'd recommend for a sunny spot...

----

Chamaedorea microspadix (handles more sun than costaricana, and stays at a tidy 8-10' height. Pretty red berries part of the year...

---

Or if it's an incredibly scorching spot, you could do Chamaedorea radicalis. I've been torture-testing this clump in one of the hottest spots in my yard (that never gets shade)... and it's never shown any sun stress...

* Disclaimer: coloring on all of these photos is off due to it getting late in the day (and me being too lazy to do precise color-correction. You get the idea though. 

I bought my costaricana clumps from Rancho Soledad, and my microspadix & radicalis clumps from Joe at Discovery Palms (San Marcos). Joe had some pretty tall clumps of both microspadix & radicalis when I was there.

Anyway, just another direction you could go with that strip 🌱

[Christopher Dillman]

14 hours ago, iDesign said:

Or if it's an incredibly scorching spot, you could do Chamaedorea radicalis. I've been torture-testing this clump in one of the hottest spots in my yard (that never gets shade)... and it's never shown any sun stress...

* Disclaimer: coloring on all of these photos is off due to it getting late in the day (and me being too lazy to do precise color-correction. You get the idea though. 

I bought my costaricana clumps from Rancho Soledad, and my microspadix & radicalis clumps from Joe at Discovery Palms (San Marcos). Joe had some pretty tall clumps of both microspadix & radicalis when I was there.

Anyway, just another direction you could go with that strip 🌱

Good stuff! Never heard of the Chamaedorea radicalis. When googled, says it's also cold hardy? Which I like as we do get the cold spells from time to time in SD. And yes, the spot I'm putting them in is south facing, so full sun.

Need to a run over at RS and do a Chamaedorea radicalis vs. Areca palm face off. Of course it will come down to price per 15 gal.

[iDesign]

1 hour ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Need to a run over at RS and do a Chamaedorea radicalis vs. Areca palm face off. Of course it will come down to price per 15 gal.

I haven't seen either of those at RS. 

- Big box stores usually carry Areca palm (Dypsis/Crysalidocarpus lutescens) so that's likely going to be cheapest... the question is whether you can find them at a larger size.

- Discovery Palms is the only place in our area where I've seen LARGE size Radicalis (there might be others... but that's the only one I've seen). Radicalis is a very cool plant, which can take both blazing sun & temps MUCH lower than we'll ever see here in SoCal. Looks like Joe carries Areca in addition to Radicalis & Microspadix. Here's a link to his Craigslist ads FYI: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/search/sss?userpostingid=7538925704

Good luck!

[Christopher Dillman]

3 hours ago, iDesign said:

- Discovery Palms is the only place in our area where I've seen LARGE size Radicalis (there might be others... but that's the only one I've seen). Radicalis is a very cool plant, which can take both blazing sun & temps MUCH lower than we'll ever see here in SoCal. Looks like Joe carries Areca in addition to Radicalis & Microspadix. Here's a link to his Craigslist ads FYI: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/search/sss?userpostingid=7538925704

Good luck!

Thank you for that tip! First I've heard of DP.  Jungle Music and RS have been my go-to's, and even Jungle Music has been a bit low in inventory for 15gal.

[Tracy]

17 hours ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Thank you for that tip! First I've heard of DP.  Jungle Music and RS have been my go-to's, and even Jungle Music has been a bit low in inventory for 15gal.

I'm a little puzzled by the width of the planter and your desire for 15 gallon size pots Christopher.  Are you planning on balancing the pots on the retainer over the planter by placing blocks in the planter for a base?  For fast temporary planting, I would actually do bananas myself, although they will get beat up in winter with cold and wind, they will fill out again in Spring.  Yes they form corms, and pup, but you can yank them out relatively easy.  For really obscuring that entire section you have in red highlight in your first description which looks to be two panels wide of fencing (8' sections I'm guessing) plus a couple of feet on either side is a 20' section by my calculation, you will need a few potted palms to really fill that area.  If it's truly a temporary solution, going back to your thought of using bamboo in pots and selecting a species that only grows to your desired height may be the best option.  I don't see the Chamaedorea species filling in to provide a screen very soon if time is of the essence in screening.  Good luck whatever you decide.

[Merlyn]

@TracyI suggested the 15g size because I misread his photo.  I was thinking that would fit okay in the 2' wide section, whether it's something like Lutescens or something else like a banana.  I didn't realize that he was talking about the 1' wide section.  Balancing a heavy 15g pot on the top of the retaining wall isn't going to work...at least not for long!

For a banana option, you could look at one of the skinny trunk types.  I have Bordelon in several spots.  The trunks are only about 4" across, and easy to slice out to remove or transplant.  And they grow up to around 10-15' tall pretty quickly.  They are also one of the hardier types, recovering fairly quickly from 24-25F here in Florida and taking only moderate damage from a light freeze.  Bigger ones like Ice Cream on the right are almost a foot across at the base, and wouldn't work in that narrow spot:

One way to gauge the necessary privacy coverage is to have someone stand up in that area circled in red with a tape measure.  Just extend up the tape measure until the tip covers the windows of the neighbors from your privacy location.  I'd SWAG that you need only about 3' over the fence height, so maybe your 8-9' estimate is pretty good.  As an example, my backyard neighbor's 2nd story window is about 20' high, but at my hedgeline I need around 14' of height to block the window. 

[Christopher Dillman]

25 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@TracyI suggested the 15g size because I misread his photo.  I was thinking that would fit okay in the 2' wide section, whether it's something like Lutescens or something else like a banana.  I didn't realize that he was talking about the 1' wide section.  Balancing a heavy 15g pot on the top of the retaining wall isn't going to work...at least not for long!

For a banana option, you could look at one of the skinny trunk types.  I have Bordelon in several spots.  The trunks are only about 4" across, and easy to slice out to remove or transplant.  And they grow up to around 10-15' tall pretty quickly.  They are also one of the hardier types, recovering fairly quickly from 24-25F here in Florida and taking only moderate damage from a light freeze.  Bigger ones like Ice Cream on the right are almost a foot across at the base, and wouldn't work in that narrow spot:

One way to gauge the necessary privacy coverage is to have someone stand up in that area circled in red with a tape measure.  Just extend up the tape measure until the tip covers the windows of the neighbors from your privacy location.  I'd SWAG that you need only about 3' over the fence height, so maybe your 8-9' estimate is pretty good.  As an example, my backyard neighbor's 2nd story window is about 20' high, but at my hedgeline I need around 14' of height to block the window. 

Argh, another option!

While amazing, the Musa Bordelon makes me nervous if it's anything like my Red Abyssinian. I had a RA near that full sun spot and it got absolutely fried and went kaput.

Just want to be sure anything I plant there can handle the full 11am onward sun.

 

[Christopher Dillman]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

I'm a little puzzled by the width of the planter and your desire for 15 gallon size pots Christopher.  Are you planning on balancing the pots on the retainer over the planter by placing blocks in the planter for a base?  For fast temporary planting, I would actually do bananas myself, although they will get beat up in winter with cold and wind, they will fill out again in Spring.  Yes they form corms, and pup, but you can yank them out relatively easy.  For really obscuring that entire section you have in red highlight in your first description which looks to be two panels wide of fencing (8' sections I'm guessing) plus a couple of feet on either side is a 20' section by my calculation, you will need a few potted palms to really fill that area.  If it's truly a temporary solution, going back to your thought of using bamboo in pots and selecting a species that only grows to your desired height may be the best option.  I don't see the Chamaedorea species filling in to provide a screen very soon if time is of the essence in screening.  Good luck whatever you decide.

Yes, thank you for that question. I should have clarified. A container will be fabricated, with the requisite drain holes, to rest on top of that cinder block wall. Unfortunately between wall and fence there's concrete footing about a foot or so down, so planting in soil is not an option.


The 1 foot or so gap between the cinder block wall and fence will be back filled with brick material so there's a level surface to rest the container on top. I imagine the container will need to be secured to cinder block wall, while making sure it doesn't push out my neighbor's fence.

I love the banana palm idea. Merlyn posted a Bordelon which would be amazing. Yet unsure whether it can take on full sun and how deep the container needs to be to support it.

So looks like my choices are:

1) Textillis bamboo

2) Dypsis Lutecens (Areca Palm)

3) Musa Bordelon or Ice Cream banana palm

For either option, need to know how tall/deep the containers need to be for plant to take off.

Realizing bamboo is the safer bet, yet.. 2) and 3) would have SO MUCH more character in that spot. As long as it doesn't push out my neighbor's fence line.

[Merlyn]

@Christopher Dillmanthat makes more sense, if you are planning to build a container for it as a custom fit.  That might be tough to do and make sure the backfill is at the right height all the way along.  You could stack concrete blocks in that 1 foot space and use that to help support and contain the backfill. 

I can't comment on Bordelon in CA, but it grows great in full sun swampy Floriduh.  I would not recommend "big trunk" types like Ice Cream.  They rapidly grow to 20' tall and one "trunk" will easily fill an entire 50g trash can with 200-300lb worth of slimy mess when it blooms and dies.  This was the cluster of Ice Cream I removed 2 years ago.  It turned into that monster cluster in about a year from a single culm transplant.  That's easily 8' diameter at the base.  Bordelon, on the other hand, grow very dense and have nice burgundy + green leaves...and the culms are lightweight enough that you can hold with 1 hand and cut with the other, maybe 20-30lb or so for a full sized "tree."

[Christopher Dillman]

27 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

.. They rapidly grow to 20' tall and one "trunk" will easily fill an entire 50g trash can with 200-300lb worth of slimy mess when it blooms and dies. 

Is there a life expectancy for banana palms?

Thanks to you I'm now plum fascinated with Musa Bordelon.  Yet curious on their life expectancy? And whether I can find a large one here in San Diego to plant. I'm reading they grow full sun, zones 7-11, so I'm covered there.

[Merlyn]

@Christopher Dillmanbananas will live indefinitely unless they get a disease, freeze to death, or run out of water.  Each culm lives until it blooms and dies.  For Bordelon in Floriduh this is less than a year, but they quickly produce offsets at the base.  I started with one single Bordelon culm for $13 from https://www.greenhousebusiness.com/baplbatrsa.html in 2018 and now have 8 or 9 big clusters of them.  I think he's out of those at the moment.  Another possibility is "Zebrina Rojo," which grows about the same size (maybe a little shorter) but also has nice red streaked leaves and small diameter culms.

As an idea of how they cluster, the previous Bordelon photo was a clump of 2 or 3 culms that I ruthlessly chopped off of a bigger clump, stuck it in the ground, and gave is a 2gph dripper.  Another example (and why I'd say no to Ice Cream) is this transplanted a single culm of Ice Cream in late summer 2019 and by May 2021 it had turned into this beast.  I meant to add this photo to my last post.  It's an overly-edited hazy evening shot that I tried to make visible.  There's probably 15-20 full sized plants in there...

 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Dypsis Lutescens.  I’ve had mine since October 2017. There were not small when I purchased them, but they are MUCH larger now.   They’re been in this faux “half” (really more like a quarter) whisky barrel since 2 months after I got them.  They do very well I containers.   The only things I’ve going for them is they really benefit from feeding, and if it’s a very windy location the fronds will burn.   
 

I’ll try to get better photos of mine tomorrow during the day.  For reference the top of the flag is 13 feet.  Please don’t mind the mess. Still getting this re situated after hurricane Ian.   
 

 

[Genedujyn]

Navigating privacy dilemmas can really throw you for a loop, right? I totally get it – I had some sneaky neighbors. My solution? I planted a bunch of tall plants, and it worked like a charm! Not only did it add a touch of greenery, but it also gave me the privacy I was looking for. Win-win! 🌿

[Christopher Dillman]

I want to update/lift up this post, and present what a 2-year commitment will deliver. ☺️

Privacy screen coming along nicely, consists of giant bird of paradise in the ground, Mediterranean fan palm in-ground, and a duo of triple kings in 20-gal pots.

Lessons learned: 1) Soil amendments + Palm Plus (sometimes Palm Gain) twice per year; 2) Adding a total of four emitters to each of the 20 gal triple kings, two of which on a different day cycle.; 3) Water, water, water for the triples. 🧐

GroMulch the containers, and regular mulch for the ground palms.

Gardening is indeed a calendar of care.

[iDesign]

Wow, what an improvement! From prying eyes to private tropical nook. Totally different vibe. Great job. 🏆