Separating Kentia clumps? Yes or no?

[UK_Palms]

How easy is it to separate Kentia’a that are purchased as a clump? Like do they separate easily enough and respond okay to the roots being disturbed? Or is this a big ‘no no’ with this species? Will it severely shock them? I don’t mind losing some, as long as I can save the main 2-3. One of them in particular is bigger than the others and the main one I want to separate and keep.

I have had this clump for a few years now and it really needs to be separated. There are about 6-7 individuals growing in there, including some much smaller ones, which I don’t need. I would probably keep the 2-3 biggest ones and discard the smaller 3-4 ones. The damage you can see on the fronds is from a few light frosts last year and some sunburn. It stays outside for 9-10 months of the year. The lowest I subjected it to is about -1.5C / 29F.

When I create my new garden on the milder south coast, I will plant out 2 Kentia’s. Obviously in a sheltered spot of course, along with my Archontophoenix, Becarriophoenix Alfredii, Chambeyronia, Rhopalostylis, Juania etc. I figure that if I don’t separate these Kentia now, I will never be able to, or they will start going into decline? I don’t know what people’s thoughts are? Separate now? Wait another year until I move? Don’t even bother? Is it too risky?

Thanks

[JohnAndSancho]

I've split up clumps of 4 3 times. 

 

Out of those 12, 10 died. I was super careful to take my time and untangle all of the roots, breaking almost none. I used a metal chop stick to help. Took off all the old dirt, etc etc. Took my time, did everything the right way. 

 

Most of them lived for a month or 2, one of them lived almost a year. 

[UK_Palms]

38 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

I've split up clumps of 4 3 times. 

Out of those 12, 10 died. I was super careful to take my time and untangle all of the roots, breaking almost none. I used a metal chop stick to help. Took off all the old dirt, etc etc. Took my time, did everything the right way. 

Most of them lived for a month or 2, one of them lived almost a year. 

That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence now lol. Are you saying that 2 out of the 12 did not die and have survived okay for you? Were those 2 the biggest ones with the most roots?

Also just out of curiosity, what time of year did you separate them? You guys obviously have much hotter summers than I do here, so if they were separated in say the spring, they would probably have trouble getting enough water during the hot summer maybe after being transplanted?

[JohnAndSancho]

17 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

That doesn't exactly fill me with confidence now lol. Are you saying that 2 out of the 12 did not die and have survived okay for you? Were those 2 the biggest ones with the most roots?

Also just out of curiosity, what time of year did you separate them? You guys obviously have much hotter summers than I do here, so if they were separated in say the spring, they would probably have trouble getting enough water during the hot summer maybe after being transplanted?

Yep. These are all that's left. I honestly don't remember what time of year I did it, but all of my Kentia stayed indoors after they arrived. I bought 1 2 gallon clump and 2 1 gallon clumps. All the 1 gallons got yeeted into the dumpster. 

 

Honestly I don't know what happened to them. I've struggled heavily trying to figure out what kind of watering schedule they like. I use a mix of garden soil, pine bark, LECA, and Turface when I have it. Drains really really really well. They didn't all die at once, either. One of the tiny ones lived for almost a year. 

 

I figured the first few I killed from overwatering, so I watered the 2nd batch less. They literally looked great one day and then I come home from work and they're shrivelled up and crispy. These survivors, I don't really mess with them too much. I give them some palm food spikes and mist them 2 or 3 times a week, and give them a splash of water when I think about it. They're not growing very much but they aren't dead either. 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms I've divided smaller kentia palms before and had them all survive but lager ones are probably harder to separate as their roots will probably be distributed lots. I would definitely add Chrysalidocarpus (formerly dypsis), chamedorea elgans, klotzschiana, plumosa, ernesti-augusti, cataractarum, metallicaand some Ceroxylons. There are some large kentias for sale in the UK but they are about £2000.  Hopefully one day the coast is lined with kentias, archontophoenix and Washingtonia. Personally I can see Washingtonia overtaking CIDPs in the near future because they grow faster and are very fast and easy to germinate.

[Darold Petty]

I have never tried to separate multiples into singles, but I would suggest that you soak the entire root ball in a bucket of water overnight, then use a jet of water to rinse away the potting medium, before manually separating the roots as much as possible.  I agree that you should focus on tending only the larger ones.

  I have successfully  downsized Howea from a large pot to a smaller pot by knocking off potting medium around the perimeter of the root ball. 

  Good luck !

[UK_Palms]

@JohnAndSancho Well at least you got 2 survivors, although out of 12 in total that isn't great odds lol. That is a 16-17% survival rate by reckoning. As long as I can save the main, biggest stem I will be happy. I am going to prioritise that one and have to do everything correctly on point to ensure it survives. The clump itself right now is probably worth £200+, so I really want to get this sorted and save the best 1-2 stems. If I lose them during the separation process, it will be pretty gutting.

I have heard before that Kentia's can be a pain in the ass to separate and transplant. Clearly it is one of the less easy palms when it comes to doing this. Hopefully some folk with more experience in this field can recommend what ways to increase the chances of success/survival? I really fear that the roots will be filling the entire pot by now too and it is a pretty big pot. They may be almost impossible to separate successfully at this point. But at the same time they can't continue how they are now either, clumped together.

[JohnAndSancho]

I mean there's lots of variables with mine other than the separation. Maybe they just didn't want to be in Texas. 

[UK_Palms]

21 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

@UK_Palms I've divided smaller kentia palms before and had them all survive but lager ones are probably harder to separate as their roots will probably be distributed lots. I would definitely add Chrysalidocarpus (formerly dypsis), chamedorea elgans, klotzschiana, plumosa, ernesti-augusti, cataractarum, metallicaand some Ceroxylons. There are some large kentias for sale in the UK but they are about £2000.  Hopefully one day the coast is lined with kentias, archontophoenix and Washingtonia. Personally I can see Washingtonia overtaking CIDPs in the near future because they grow faster and are very fast and easy to germinate.

I would add Chambeyronia (flamethrower) to that list as well. Apparently there is a good one in a back garden on the Isle of Wight, which doesn't get protection and puts out big red fronds. They are hardier than Kentia I believe, with young specimens being able to take -2C or -3C with minimal damage and mature specimens being able to take -5C or -6C, apparently. I will probably be moving to the Sussex coast, where it rarely ever goes below -2C or -3C. I think the last time it got that cold was Feb 2018 and it only went down to -2.5C I think.

Have you actually got a Kentia planted out in London? I know you have Archontophoenix and a few other crownshafts, but it would be good to see a Kentia planted out. Obviously they survive winters unprotected outdoors in pots all winter long at street level in parts of London. Those ones probably don't see anything below 0C though. Those ones never look damaged, even come March/April. Unless they are constantly being replaced, which I seriously doubt they are.

[Foxpalms]

19 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I would add Chambeyronia (flamethrower) to that list as well. Apparently there is a good one in a back garden on the Isle of Wight, which doesn't get protection and puts out big red fronds. They are hardier than Kentia I believe, with young specimens being able to take -2C or -3C with minimal damage and mature specimens being able to take -5C or -6C, apparently. I will probably be moving to the Sussex coast, where it rarely ever goes below -2C or -3C. I think the last time it got that cold was Feb 2018 and it only went down to -2.5C I think.

Have you actually got a Kentia planted out in London? I know you have Archontophoenix and a few other crownshafts, but it would be good to see a Kentia planted out. Obviously they survive winters unprotected outdoors in pots all winter long at street level in parts of London. Those ones probably don't see anything below 0C though. Those ones never look damaged, even come March/April. Unless they are constantly being replaced, which I seriously doubt they are.

The ones in London definitely don't get replaced I've seen lots out in Dec, Jan and Feb looking completely undamaged in pots. They are probably all in pots because I imagine the restaurants and shops can only rent out outdoor seating areas in London and don't own the land so they are not able to plant the kentias. I have a kentia outside doing fine they are definitely slower though than archontophoenix. Chambeyronia macrocarpa is something I want to plant outside I can just never find them for sale from what I've read they are hardy to -4c or probably defoliate at that temperature not necessarily die. Chambeyronia oliviformis is one I'm not sure about. Are they a zone 9b or 10a palm and can they handle cool weather? Its definitely a very nice tropical looking palm. Under canopy near a large water source that has a 10a microclimate would it survive or die. The UK is funny climate which needs testing because we don't get warm temperatures after a freeze it's still cool weather except the odd few days untill march. Some 9b plants are fine here (kentias) some wouldn't have enough heat in the winter (royals). Would be interesting just how tropical of a palm you can zone push without protection.

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

I have never tried to separate multiples into singles, but I would suggest that you soak the entire root ball in a bucket of water overnight, then use a jet of water to rinse away the potting medium, before manually separating the roots as much as possible.  I agree that you should focus on tending only the larger ones.

  I have successfully  downsized Howea from a large pot to a smaller pot by knocking off potting medium around the perimeter of the root ball. 

  Good luck !

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely ensure they take in a lot of water prior to the separation process, assuming I do end up going through with it. I will probably use a hose to wash the soil away as I separate them. I don't trust myself using an actual jet system though on any palm roots.

In an ideal world, this would be put off until the spring, but I don't know if I have that long. The rootball will be continuing to expand in that pot and they will start declining with that many planted so close together. I have already noticed growth to be much slower this summer just gone, compared to the previous summer.

Like I said though, I will be happy if I come away with just the main one successfully separated from the others and transplanted, with minimal damage. I may not even risk separating them however, if other people don't recommend it and have also had bad experiences when separating Kentia's. I'll wait for some more feedback.

[JohnAndSancho]

19 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely ensure they take in a lot of water prior to the separation process, assuming I do end up going through with it. I will probably use a hose to wash the soil away as I separate them. I don't trust myself using an actual jet system though on any palm roots.

In an ideal world, this would be put off until the spring, but I don't know if I have that long. The rootball will be continuing to expand in that pot and they will start declining with that many planted so close together. I have already noticed growth to be much slower this summer just gone, compared to the previous summer.

Like I said though, I will be happy if I come away with just the main one successfully separated from the others and transplanted, with minimal damage. I may not even risk separating them however, if other people don't recommend it and have also had bad experiences when separating Kentia's. I'll wait for some more feedback.

Maybe that's where I went wrong. I didn't soak them, and the roots seem really stiff. The only other things I've separated are seedlings and houseplants tho